Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Trip Report (EFI Answer to Question in EFI Session)
| Trip Report [message #288270] |
Tue, 06 October 2015 12:36  |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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Randy Van Winkle and I did an EFI question and answer session at Rapid City. One of the questions asked of me was, "What fuel mileage do you get?" I said between 8 and 10 depending on how I drive," which is the official Gene Fisher answer.
So, in all honesty I will now declare my MPG for the 4263 mile fall trip. The trip started in CA on Highway 80 and proceeded through Nevada (not real exciting), Utah (gotta love the salt flats), Wyoming (not a lot of places to camp other than KOA and private places), Nebraska (hmm.) to Lincoln. Now I am not beating up on these states. I am sure there are many wonderful things about these states. But I have BEEN on I-80. Lots. GMCMI loves to have its Western Rally 2000 miles from the West coast. By the way, driving 80 you cross the Continental Divide five times, so yes there are a couple of hills.
From Lincoln we went around Kansas City and to Battlefield, MO, where we mooched off the Van Winkles for 10 days. (We have decided that mooching off the Van Winkles is a good way to save money... if you didn't have to use hundreds of dollars worth of gas to get there)
KenHen and KerryP joined us in Battlefield and we all drove west on 400, through Dodge city and on to Pueblo. The wind blew from the South about 800 miles an hour and hardly bothered to gust. It just blew. From Dodge city we went to Pueblo to the Western States Rally. Wow they feed well. We have decided that two catered meals a day is a good way to save money if you didn't have to pay for the rally or drive for hundreds of miles in a buffeting side wind.)
From Pueblo we drove north toward Rapid City. I got to see Rushmore. The South wind had turned into a North wind, which is interesting. I suppose the change was due to some barometric pressure change... or it could be that I was driving North.
After seeing the sights we drove to Rapid City. (We have decided that staying with GMC friends in Rapid City could save money as well if you didn't have to pay for the Rally.)
After Rapid City we made the quickest route home. I cannot say the wind was against us all the time but I can say it certainly wasn't behind us for more that a couple of hours. BTW, across Wyoming there were at least 15 smashed bunny rabbits per mile. I doubt that caused any change in mpg but you could not throw a dead cat without it landing on a dead rabbit. Of course we crossed the Continental Divide five more times. So, yes, there were some hills.
Because my new Speed Hut speedometer went crazy for a while and racked up a 1000 extra miles in about two hours, (curious as the speedometer remained the same while 10ths were whizzing by) I Googled the trip and added a couple of 10 mile jaunts to camp. The trip to Reno (83 miles from home, the last place we got gas, was 4263. I added the gas put in at the pump: 502 gallons. This rounds to 8.5 mpg. 455ci, 3.21FD, no tow vehicle, driving about 63 mph... 65 in the Kansas wind.
Like I said, I get between 8 and 10 mpg depending on how I drive.
(EFI does well, but to keep moving above 4000 feet it is in Power Enrichment on most any grade = 5 mpg. Grueling climbs = 3 or 4 mpg. But if a carb was on it it would be into the Power Valve a great deal at that altitude, also. Or you could tune it not to do that and burn up your pistons and valves.)
So, there you have it. Gasoline engines, pushing 12,000 lbs through the air use gas.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: Trip Report [message #288275 is a reply to message #288270] |
Tue, 06 October 2015 13:38  |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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So my 13.779 mpg with the new 6.5 swap wasn't too bad I guess George?  I wonder how many miles it'll take to pay for the change.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
[Updated on: Tue, 06 October 2015 13:40] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip Report [message #288279 is a reply to message #288275] |
Tue, 06 October 2015 14:05 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Let's see, if we balance out the difference between the cost of diesel fuel
vs. gasoline, yeah, I almost forgot the cost of the diesel conversion, the
diesel swap should pay for itself in fuel savings by 2075 or so. (grin) Oh
what the heck, if any of us had any sense at all, we wouldn't have anything
to do with 40 year old motor homes. Yes, I do indeed include myself in
that group.
Good job Hal. Looking forward to seeing it sometime. You planning an Oregon
trip any time soon?
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or.
On Oct 6, 2015 11:38 AM, "Hal StClair" wrote:
> So my 13.779 mpg with the new 6.5 swap wasn't too bad I guess George?
> :lol:
> Hal
> --
> 1977 Royale 101348,
>
> 1977 Royale 101586,
>
> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip Report [message #288284 is a reply to message #288279] |
Tue, 06 October 2015 16:15 |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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Senior Member |
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James Hupy,
> [..] I almost forgot the cost of the diesel conversion,
>
what is the cost for the swap? 10k? 15k?
--
Best regards
Peer Oliver Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
'76a Eleganza II, VA
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Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip Report [message #288295 is a reply to message #288293] |
Tue, 06 October 2015 19:11 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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Would love to get north this summer Jim, we'll see how things shake out. Maybe Quartzsite after the Indio FMCA Rally the first part of the year. Hope to make a couple of short trips before the weather turns on us. Being retired makes us an easy target for all the grand children so it's hard to make definite plans if you know what I mean. Wouldn't have it any other way though. 
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
[Updated on: Tue, 06 October 2015 20:56] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip Report [message #288304 is a reply to message #288270] |
Tue, 06 October 2015 21:08 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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George,
Next time you travel across the states, you should ask the locals for good
camping spots.
That is your local GMC owners.
On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 11:36 AM, George Beckman wrote:
> Randy Van Winkle and I did an EFI question and answer session at Rapid
> City. One of the questions asked of me was, "What fuel mileage do you get?"
> I
> said between 8 and 10 depending on how I drive," which is the official
> Gene Fisher answer.
>
> So, in all honesty I will now declare my MPG for the 4263 mile fall trip.
> The trip started in CA on Highway 80 and proceeded through Nevada (not real
> exciting), Utah (gotta love the salt flats), Wyoming (not a lot of places
> to camp other than KOA and private places), Nebraska (hmm.) to Lincoln. Now
> I am not beating up on these states. I am sure there are many wonderful
> things about these states. But I have BEEN on I-80. Lots. GMCMI loves to
> have
> its Western Rally 2000 miles from the West coast. By the way, driving 80
> you cross the Continental Divide five times, so yes there are a couple of
> hills.
>
> From Lincoln we went around Kansas City and to Battlefield, MO, where we
> mooched off the Van Winkles for 10 days. (We have decided that mooching off
> the Van Winkles is a good way to save money... if you didn't have to use
> hundreds of dollars worth of gas to get there)
>
> KenHen and KerryP joined us in Battlefield and we all drove west on 400,
> through Dodge city and on to Pueblo. The wind blew from the South about 800
> miles an hour and hardly bothered to gust. It just blew. From Dodge city
> we went to Pueblo to the Western States Rally. Wow they feed well. We have
> decided that two catered meals a day is a good way to save money if you
> didn't have to pay for the rally or drive for hundreds of miles in a
> buffeting
> side wind.)
>
> From Pueblo we drove north toward Rapid City. I got to see Rushmore. The
> South wind had turned into a North wind, which is interesting. I suppose the
> change was due to some barometric pressure change... or it could be that I
> was driving North.
>
> After seeing the sights we drove to Rapid City. (We have decided that
> staying with GMC friends in Rapid City could save money as well if you
> didn't
> have to pay for the Rally.)
>
> After Rapid City we made the quickest route home. I cannot say the wind
> was against us all the time but I can say it certainly wasn't behind us for
> more that a couple of hours. BTW, across Wyoming there were at least 15
> smashed bunny rabbits per mile. I doubt that caused any change in mpg but
> you
> could not throw a dead cat without it landing on a dead rabbit. Of course
> we crossed the Continental Divide five more times. So, yes, there were some
> hills.
>
> Because my new Speed Hut speedometer went crazy for a while and racked up
> a 1000 extra miles in about two hours, (curious as the speedometer remained
> the same while 10ths were whizzing by) I Googled the trip and added a
> couple of 10 mile jaunts to camp. The trip to Reno (83 miles from home, the
> last
> place we got gas, was 4263. I added the gas put in at the pump: 502
> gallons. This rounds to 8.5 mpg. 455ci, 3.21FD, no tow vehicle, driving
> about 63
> mph... 65 in the Kansas wind.
>
> Like I said, I get between 8 and 10 mpg depending on how I drive.
>
> (EFI does well, but to keep moving above 4000 feet it is in Power
> Enrichment on most any grade = 5 mpg. Grueling climbs = 3 or 4 mpg. But if
> a carb
> was on it it would be into the Power Valve a great deal at that altitude,
> also. Or you could tune it not to do that and burn up your pistons and
> valves.)
>
> So, there you have it. Gasoline engines, pushing 12,000 lbs through the
> air use gas.
> --
> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
> Best Wishes,
> George
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip Report [message #288308 is a reply to message #288293] |
Tue, 06 October 2015 23:07 |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
> I guess the standard answer applies here. "If we have to ask the price, it
> might be out of our price range." (Grin)
> Jim Hupy
:)
My reason is mainly curiosity. If people say it takes 50 years to break
even, I want to know the numbers. That way, I can do the math with
different variables myself. ie. in the US gas is less expensive than
diesel, and also way less expensive than in Europe.
If the conversion costs 15k, and one drives 5k mls a year, it takes
around 35-40 years in the US to break-even, in Germany it would be
around 10-15 years. Hence my quest for information.
--
Best regards
Peer Oliver Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
'76a Eleganza II, VA
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip Report [message #288311 is a reply to message #288308] |
Wed, 07 October 2015 07:28 |
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thesmith
Messages: 589
Registered: February 2015
Location: Cary, NC
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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And of course many people would choose to go diesel when their 455 or 403 dies.......so its the delta cost
over a replacement 403 or 455 that would be of interest. And its important to bear in mind its a brand new Diesel
versus a rebuilt (at least once) 403 or 455.......
And its likely that a successful diesel installation will increase sale price by a few thou.......
and you will have a core gas engine to sell as well...
Still going to cost an arm and a leg but not quite as bad as it could be......
Peer Oliver Schmidt wrote on Wed, 07 October 2015 00:07Jim,
> I guess the standard answer applies here. "If we have to ask the price, it
> might be out of our price range." (Grin)
> Jim Hupy
My reason is mainly curiosity. If people say it takes 50 years to break
even, I want to know the numbers. That way, I can do the math with
different variables myself. ie. in the US gas is less expensive than
diesel, and also way less expensive than in Europe.
If the conversion costs 15k, and one drives 5k mls a year, it takes
around 35-40 years in the US to break-even, in Germany it would be
around 10-15 years. Hence my quest for information.
--
Best regards
Peer Oliver Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
'76a Eleganza II, VA
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Cary, NC
1978 Center Kitchen Royale.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip Report [message #288320 is a reply to message #288311] |
Wed, 07 October 2015 12:19 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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This.
You pay for that engine, hopefully, just once. And with the diesel you are replacing with an power plant that traditionally has double the life span of a 455, if not more.
The difference between 8 and 13 is 150 miles of additional range, assuming a re-fuel at 30 gallons. That is 62% fewer fill ups. Every time you stop for fuel that mileage weighs heavy on the enjoyment factor.
I think the preoccupation with resale value is misplaced, unless you are flipping them to make money. Like any vehicle, as you enjoy it, you use up its value. A coach you have had 100,000 trouble free miles on is likely to need another major cash infusion for another 100,000 trouble free miles. Rubber ages, paint fades, upholstery wears...
Just saying.
I am just dissapointed all this is developing after I re-built the 455.  C'est la vie.
thesmith wrote on Wed, 07 October 2015 07:28And of course many people would choose to go diesel when their 455 or 403 dies.......so its the delta cost
over a replacement 403 or 455 that would be of interest. And its important to bear in mind its a brand new Diesel
versus a rebuilt (at least once) 403 or 455.......
And its likely that a successful diesel installation will increase sale price by a few thou.......
and you will have a core gas engine to sell as well...
Still going to cost an arm and a leg but not quite as bad as it could be......
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip Report [message #288335 is a reply to message #288279] |
Wed, 07 October 2015 18:56 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
Don't be too catty about Hal's diesel -- it's a work of art if nothing
else! I'd admired the photos as he's done the conversion, but wasn't
prepared for the beauty I saw at Pueblo! I'm just sorry he didn't join us
in SD.
You've got to somehow manage to get a face-to-face with Hal and his coach.
When do you "go in" for your overhaul?
Ken H.
On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 3:05 PM, James Hupy wrote:
> Let's see, if we balance out the difference between the cost of diesel fuel
> vs. gasoline, yeah, I almost forgot the cost of the diesel conversion, the
> diesel swap should pay for itself in fuel savings by 2075 or so. (grin) Oh
> what the heck, if any of us had any sense at all, we wouldn't have anything
> to do with 40 year old motor homes. Yes, I do indeed include myself in
> that group.
> Good job Hal. Looking forward to seeing it sometime. You planning an Oregon
> trip any time soon?
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or.
> On Oct 6, 2015 11:38 AM, "Hal StClair"
> wrote:
>
>> So my 13.779 mpg with the new 6.5 swap wasn't too bad I guess George?
>> :lol:
>> Hal
>> --
>> 1977 Royale 101348,
>>
>> 1977 Royale 101586,
>>
>> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip Report [message #288340 is a reply to message #288335] |
Wed, 07 October 2015 20:20 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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I have met Hal and traveled 3 days on route 66 with him and his lovely
wife. They are GREAT PEOPLE. His Bus conversion is like his GMC diesel
conversion. A work of art. I meant no disrespect to him or his work. Just
teasing him a bit.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or.
On Oct 7, 2015 4:57 PM, "Ken Henderson" wrote:
> Jim,
>
> Don't be too catty about Hal's diesel -- it's a work of art if nothing
> else! I'd admired the photos as he's done the conversion, but wasn't
> prepared for the beauty I saw at Pueblo! I'm just sorry he didn't join us
> in SD.
>
> You've got to somehow manage to get a face-to-face with Hal and his coach.
>
> When do you "go in" for your overhaul?
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 3:05 PM, James Hupy wrote:
>
>> Let's see, if we balance out the difference between the cost of diesel
> fuel
>> vs. gasoline, yeah, I almost forgot the cost of the diesel conversion,
> the
>> diesel swap should pay for itself in fuel savings by 2075 or so. (grin)
> Oh
>> what the heck, if any of us had any sense at all, we wouldn't have
> anything
>> to do with 40 year old motor homes. Yes, I do indeed include myself in
>> that group.
>> Good job Hal. Looking forward to seeing it sometime. You planning an
> Oregon
>> trip any time soon?
>> Jim Hupy
>> Salem, Or.
>> On Oct 6, 2015 11:38 AM, "Hal StClair"
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So my 13.779 mpg with the new 6.5 swap wasn't too bad I guess George?
>>> :lol:
>>> Hal
>>> --
>>> 1977 Royale 101348,
>>>
>>> 1977 Royale 101586,
>>>
>>> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip Report [message #288345 is a reply to message #288340] |
Wed, 07 October 2015 23:22 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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Aw shucks guys, you're makin' me blush.  Thanks for the kind words but there are lots of folks in the community here that have shown a ton of ingenuity with these rigs and I certainly count the two of you (Jim, Ken) in those ranks. Just wish I'd have started earlier. Knowing Jim I could see his tongue firmly planted in his cheek from here Ken.
We'd have loved to make SD Ken but the timing was real tight and the cruise issue hadn't been resolved. A near 3000 miles without cruise isn't my idea of a fun ride-I know, I'm just a woose.
The question on the price of the swap certainly is a legitimate concern. I've kept all the receipts but haven't tallied them up yet. Some of the expenses would be common to a more conventional 6.5 swap but on others' not so much'. The front end is just about completely new as the front frame section take out was fresh and is going into another Royal as a complete unit. New T bars and adjustable pork chops shouldn't be needed or the hydro boost and complete dash. Other things like the new large fuel tank are nice but not required nor was the body lift. Knowing Manny, he might sell the swap parts less motor if you were able to source your own power plant and save there. You'd have to have Manny do a little magic with the trans and use the right final drive but if you had an ailing 403/455 the swap could make economic sense if ANYTHING makes any economic sense on these things.
Just my way of looking at things, Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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