Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Front Axle Nut Torque
| [GMCnet] Front Axle Nut Torque [message #287107] |
Fri, 11 September 2015 19:56  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
There are a number of inconsistencies in the Maintenance Manuals (MM) X-7425, X-7525, X-7625, and X-7725 regarding the torque to be
applied to the axle nuts. Below you will find them all listed. I would suggest that the procedure as defined by X-7625 and X-7725 be
used.
As far as lubrication goes while it is not called out in the MM I would suggest the threads of the axle nut and axle (CV joint) be
cleaned and wiped with a clean rag with a bit of oil on it. I would NOT use a grease containing molybdenum or anti-seize compound as
it could increase the clamping force and stress on the threads beyond the specifications noted.
***************************************************************
MM X-7425 Page 3B- 3
5. Install washer and nut on drive axle. Torque to 110 ft. lbs. Insert cotter pin and crimp. Tighten nut to insert cotter pin.
Page 3B-12 TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS
APPLICATION......................... FT. LBS.
Drive axle Nut at Wheel Hub... 110
Nut must be tightened to insert cotter pin.
***************************************************************
MM X-7525 Page 3A- 8
4. Install drive axle washer and nut. Torque nut to 140 ft. lbs. If necessary to align cotter pin slot, tighten nut and install NEW
cotter pin and crimp. Torque not to exceed 280 ft. lbs. NOTE: Do not back off nut to install cotter pin.
Page 3B-3 DRIVE axle ASSEMBLY (RIGHT HAND)
5. Install washer and nut on drive axle. Torque to 200 ft. lbs. Insert cotter pin and crimp. Tighten nut to insert cotter pin.
Page 3B-4 DRIVE axle ASSEMBLY (LEFT HAND)
8. Install drive axle washer and nut. Torque to 200 ft. lbs. Install cotter pin and crimp. Tighten nut, if necessary to install
cotter pin.
Page 3A-22 TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS
APPLICATION.....FT. LBS.
Drive axle Nut*....140-280
*NOTE: After reaching minimum torque required, nut must always be tightened to insert cotter pin. Never back nut off.
Page 3B-12 DRIVE axles
TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS
Application................................. Ft. Lbs.
Drive axle Nut at Wheel Hub....... 200
Nut must be tightened to insert cotter pin.
***************************************************************
MM X-7625 Page 3A-10
4. Install drive axle washer and nut. Torque nut. See Specifications at the end of this section for torque value and procedure. If
necessary to align cotter pin slot, tighten nut and install NEW cotter pin and crimp.
Page 3A-21 TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS
APPLICATION.........FT. LBS.
Drive axle Nut*........110 -140
(Do not exceed 280 ft. lbs.)
*NOTE: After reaching minimum torque required, nut must always be tightened to inset cotter pin. Never back nut off.
***************************************************************
MM X-7725 Page 3A-11
INSTALLATION
4. Install drive axle washer and nut. Torque nut. See Specifications at the end of this section for torque value and procedure. If
necessary to align cotter pin slot, tighten nut and install NEW cotter pin and crimp.
Page 3A-21 TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS
APPLICATION.........FT. LBS.
Drive axle Nut*........110 -140
(Do not exceed 280 ft. lbs.)
*NOTE: After reaching minimum torque required, nut must always be tightened to inset cotter pin. Never back nut off.
***************************************************************
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Axle Nut Torque [message #287112 is a reply to message #287107] |
Fri, 11 September 2015 21:36  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
WADR to the PM, I disagree: Considering the wide range of allowable torque
on the axle nut, I think it would be reasonable, in the interest of future
service, to use a little anti-seize. Look at this: 140 ft-lb *1.25=175
fl-lb -- Well below the 240 fl-lb max. allowed for the dry threads (which
becomes 240 ft-lb/1.25=192 ft-lb max. for lubed).
Anyone who's not comfortable with that might prefer to use the old 110
ft-lb starting torque, leaving more margin for error. Even if one plays
with the % adjustment for lube, it's not likely that the actual compressive
force on the bearing and spacer's going to change that 0.009" pre-load very
much.
I've never actually lubed or anti-seized mine, but I've also made no effort
to remove the "accidental" greasiness of them.
Ken H.
On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Robert Mueller
wrote:
> G'day,
>
> There are a number of inconsistencies in the Maintenance Manuals (MM)
> X-7425, X-7525, X-7625, and X-7725 regarding the torque to be
> applied to the axle nuts. Below you will find them all listed. I would
> suggest that the procedure as defined by X-7625 and X-7725 be
> used.
>
> As far as lubrication goes while it is not called out in the MM I would
> suggest the threads of the axle nut and axle (CV joint) be
> cleaned and wiped with a clean rag with a bit of oil on it. I would NOT
> use a grease containing molybdenum or anti-seize compound as
> it could increase the clamping force and stress on the threads beyond the
> specifications noted.
>
> ***************************************************************
> ...
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Axle Nut Torque [message #287114 is a reply to message #287112] |
Fri, 11 September 2015 22:56 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Reasonable statements, however, what's a "little anti-seize?"
The reason I made the statement in the first place is because I have experienced a problem using anti-seize on bolts.
The heads on a Harley-Davidson Evolution engine are retained by long studs that are threaded into the aluminum case, go up the
corners of the cylinders and stop "halfway" into the head ("halfway" because I can't remember how far they stop below the clamping
surface of the head). The bolt that is used is long with internal threads. The torque specifications state that the threads of both
parts are to be cleaned and lubricated with engine oil and to wipe off any excess oil.
I got the bright idea to coat them both with hi-temp anti-seize and put anti-seize on the bottom of the bolt where it interfaces
with the head. I figger'd that way I would get a more accurate torque reading. Unfortunately I forgot that it would increase the
clamping force and the stress on the bottom of the studs where they screw into the aluminum engine block.
I rebuilt an engine for a guy in Hong Kong following MY procedure and about a month after I had returned the bike to him he called
me up and noted that he kept hearing a pfffft, pfffft, pfffft, pfffft when the bike was running. I knew it was a blown head gasket.
He brought the bike back and when I tore it down one of the studs had pulled up and there was no torque on that corner of the head.
I disassembled it and installed a twinsert. I learned my lesson and followed the HD manual procedure to the letter on that bike and
from that point onwards. No more blown head gaskets.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Henderson
Rob,
WADR to the PM, I disagree: Considering the wide range of allowable torque
on the axle nut, I think it would be reasonable, in the interest of future
service, to use a little anti-seize. Look at this: 140 ft-lb *1.25=175
fl-lb -- Well below the 240 fl-lb max. allowed for the dry threads (which
becomes 240 ft-lb/1.25=192 ft-lb max. for lubed).
Anyone who's not comfortable with that might prefer to use the old 110
ft-lb starting torque, leaving more margin for error. Even if one plays
with the % adjustment for lube, it's not likely that the actual compressive
force on the bearing and spacer's going to change that 0.009" pre-load very
much.
I've never actually lubed or anti-seized mine, but I've also made no effort
to remove the "accidental" greasiness of them.
Ken H.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Axle Nut Torque [message #287118 is a reply to message #287107] |
Sat, 12 September 2015 03:19 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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So--
This is very different than the rear axle nuts ???
http://gmc49ers.blogspot.com/2014/03/get-all-torqued-up-for-5.html
Erf
On Friday, September 11, 2015, Robert Mueller
wrote:
> G'day,
>
> There are a number of inconsistencies in the Maintenance Manuals (MM)
> X-7425, X-7525, X-7625, and X-7725 regarding the torque to be
> applied to the axle nuts. Below you will find them all listed. I would
> suggest that the procedure as defined by X-7625 and X-7725 be
> used.
>
> As far as lubrication goes while it is not called out in the MM I would
> suggest the threads of the axle nut and axle (CV joint) be
> cleaned and wiped with a clean rag with a bit of oil on it. I would NOT
> use a grease containing molybdenum or anti-seize compound as
> it could increase the clamping force and stress on the threads beyond the
> specifications noted.
>
> ***************************************************************
>
> MM X-7425 Page 3B- 3
>
> 5. Install washer and nut on drive axle. Torque to 110 ft. lbs. Insert
> cotter pin and crimp. Tighten nut to insert cotter pin.
>
> Page 3B-12 TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS
>
> APPLICATION......................... FT. LBS.
> Drive axle Nut at Wheel Hub... 110
>
> Nut must be tightened to insert cotter pin.
>
> ***************************************************************
>
> MM X-7525 Page 3A- 8
>
> 4. Install drive axle washer and nut. Torque nut to 140 ft. lbs. If
> necessary to align cotter pin slot, tighten nut and install NEW
> cotter pin and crimp. Torque not to exceed 280 ft. lbs. NOTE: Do not back
> off nut to install cotter pin.
>
> Page 3B-3 DRIVE axle ASSEMBLY (RIGHT HAND)
>
> 5. Install washer and nut on drive axle. Torque to 200 ft. lbs. Insert
> cotter pin and crimp. Tighten nut to insert cotter pin.
>
> Page 3B-4 DRIVE axle ASSEMBLY (LEFT HAND)
>
> 8. Install drive axle washer and nut. Torque to 200 ft. lbs. Install
> cotter pin and crimp. Tighten nut, if necessary to install
> cotter pin.
>
> Page 3A-22 TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS
>
> APPLICATION.....FT. LBS.
> Drive axle Nut*....140-280
>
> *NOTE: After reaching minimum torque required, nut must always be
> tightened to insert cotter pin. Never back nut off.
>
> Page 3B-12 DRIVE axles
>
> TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS
> Application................................. Ft. Lbs.
> Drive axle Nut at Wheel Hub....... 200
>
> Nut must be tightened to insert cotter pin.
>
> ***************************************************************
>
> MM X-7625 Page 3A-10
>
> 4. Install drive axle washer and nut. Torque nut. See Specifications at
> the end of this section for torque value and procedure. If
> necessary to align cotter pin slot, tighten nut and install NEW cotter pin
> and crimp.
>
> Page 3A-21 TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS
>
> APPLICATION.........FT. LBS.
> Drive axle Nut*........110 -140
> (Do not exceed 280 ft. lbs.)
>
> *NOTE: After reaching minimum torque required, nut must always be
> tightened to inset cotter pin. Never back nut off.
>
> ***************************************************************
>
> MM X-7725 Page 3A-11
>
> INSTALLATION
>
> 4. Install drive axle washer and nut. Torque nut. See Specifications at
> the end of this section for torque value and procedure. If
> necessary to align cotter pin slot, tighten nut and install NEW cotter pin
> and crimp.
>
> Page 3A-21 TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS
>
> APPLICATION.........FT. LBS.
> Drive axle Nut*........110 -140
> (Do not exceed 280 ft. lbs.)
>
> *NOTE: After reaching minimum torque required, nut must always be
> tightened to inset cotter pin. Never back nut off.
>
> ***************************************************************
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Axle Nut Torque [message #287119 is a reply to message #287114] |
Sat, 12 September 2015 06:27 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
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|
Rob,
Nonetheless, I'll bet the torque spec on those was more like +-10% than the
+100% on the axle nuts.
Ken H.
On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:56 PM, Robert Mueller
wrote:
> Ken,
>
> Reasonable statements, however, what's a "little anti-seize?"
>
> The reason I made the statement in the first place is because I have
> experienced a problem using anti-seize on bolts.
>
> The heads on a Harley-Davidson Evolution engine are retained by long studs
> that are threaded into the aluminum case, go up the
> corners of the cylinders and stop "halfway" into the head ("halfway"
> because I can't remember how far they stop below the clamping
> surface of the head). The bolt that is used is long with internal threads.
> The torque specifications state that the threads of both
> parts are to be cleaned and lubricated with engine oil and to wipe off any
> excess oil.
>
> I got the bright idea to coat them both with hi-temp anti-seize and put
> anti-seize on the bottom of the bolt where it interfaces
> with the head. I figger'd that way I would get a more accurate torque
> reading. Unfortunately I forgot that it would increase the
> clamping force and the stress on the bottom of the studs where they screw
> into the aluminum engine block.
>
> I rebuilt an engine for a guy in Hong Kong following MY procedure and
> about a month after I had returned the bike to him he called
> me up and noted that he kept hearing a pfffft, pfffft, pfffft, pfffft when
> the bike was running. I knew it was a blown head gasket.
>
> He brought the bike back and when I tore it down one of the studs had
> pulled up and there was no torque on that corner of the head.
> I disassembled it and installed a twinsert. I learned my lesson and
> followed the HD manual procedure to the letter on that bike and
> from that point onwards. No more blown head gaskets.
>
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Axle Nut Torque [message #287134 is a reply to message #287119] |
Sat, 12 September 2015 12:59 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Ken Henderson wrote on Sat, 12 September 2015 05:27Rob,
Nonetheless, I'll bet the torque spec on those was more like +-10% than the
+100% on the axle nuts.
Ken H.
On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:56 PM, Robert Mueller
wrote:
> Ken,
>
> Reasonable statements, however, what's a "little anti-seize?"
>
> The reason I made the statement in the first place is because I have
> experienced a problem using anti-seize on bolts.
>
> The heads on a Harley-Davidson Evolution engine are retained by long studs
> that are threaded into the aluminum case, go up the
> corners of the cylinders and stop "halfway" into the head ("halfway"
> because I can't remember how far they stop below the clamping
> surface of the head). The bolt that is used is long with internal threads.
> The torque specifications state that the threads of both
> parts are to be cleaned and lubricated with engine oil and to wipe off any
> excess oil.
>
> I got the bright idea to coat them both with hi-temp anti-seize and put
> anti-seize on the bottom of the bolt where it interfaces
> with the head. I figger'd that way I would get a more accurate torque
> reading. Unfortunately I forgot that it would increase the
> clamping force and the stress on the bottom of the studs where they screw
> into the aluminum engine block.
>
> I rebuilt an engine for a guy in Hong Kong following MY procedure and
> about a month after I had returned the bike to him he called
> me up and noted that he kept hearing a pfffft, pfffft, pfffft, pfffft when
> the bike was running. I knew it was a blown head gasket.
>
> He brought the bike back and when I tore it down one of the studs had
> pulled up and there was no torque on that corner of the head.
> I disassembled it and installed a twinsert. I learned my lesson and
> followed the HD manual procedure to the letter on that bike and
> from that point onwards. No more blown head gaskets.
>
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You guys are way over-thinking this. If you were to run clamp load vs torque tests, you will find that the sweat and oils from wiping your nose will provide the same results as any type and amount of lube you can place on the threads.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Axle Nut Torque [message #287147 is a reply to message #287134] |
Sat, 12 September 2015 17:24 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Bob,
I realize that the following isn't really directly relatable to the front axle torque.
Several years ago we had a discussion here about torquing the inner CV joint bolts. It had to do with installing them dry or
lubricated.
I had some 12 point bolts I had obtained from Cinnabar and I bought some grade 8 Allen head bolts from a local supplier which came
from a company in the USA. I did some testing to see what the affect of applying anti-seize to the bolt and how much they stretched.
I have searched the Forum for CV joint bolt, torque, bolt, 12 point, Allen bolt, and a few other words but I can't seem to find the
email I sent in.
From memory here's a summary of what I did:
- machined the top and bottom of the OEM bolts to assure they were flat.
- machined the bottom of the Allen socket head bolts to assure they were
flat and got a bearing that sat on the bottom of the socket and extended
above the sides of the socket so I could measure it accurately.
- put a final drive flange in my vice
- bolted an inner CV joint housing on top of the flange
- measured the OEM bolt and torqued it down to 75 ft lb
- removed and measured it
- measured the Allen socket head bolt and torqued it down to 75 ft lb
- removed and measured it
- RESULTS: the OEM bolts stretched more than the Allen socket head bolts
I repeated the above lubricating the threads on new bolts with copper
anti-seize. The OEM bolt stretched even more than the Allen socket head
bolts.
I repeated the test torquing the bolts higher, the OEM bolt snapped at a
Torque the allen held.
If I can find the bloody email with the data in it I will send it in!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob de Kruyff
You guys are way over-thinking this. If you were to run clamp load vs torque tests, you will find that the sweat and oils from
wiping your nose will provide the same results as any type and amount of lube you can place on the threads.
--
Bob
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Axle Nut Torque [message #287171 is a reply to message #287147] |
Sun, 13 September 2015 11:08 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
USAussie wrote on Sat, 12 September 2015 16:24Bob,
I realize that the following isn't really directly relatable to the front axle torque.
Several years ago we had a discussion here about torquing the inner CV joint bolts. It had to do with installing them dry or
lubricated.
I had some 12 point bolts I had obtained from Cinnabar and I bought some grade 8 Allen head bolts from a local supplier which came
from a company in the USA. I did some testing to see what the affect of applying anti-seize to the bolt and how much they stretched.
I have searched the Forum for CV joint bolt, torque, bolt, 12 point, Allen bolt, and a few other words but I can't seem to find the
email I sent in.
From memory here's a summary of what I did:
- machined the top and bottom of the OEM bolts to assure they were flat.
- machined the bottom of the Allen socket head bolts to assure they were
flat and got a bearing that sat on the bottom of the socket and extended
above the sides of the socket so I could measure it accurately.
- put a final drive flange in my vice
- bolted an inner CV joint housing on top of the flange
- measured the OEM bolt and torqued it down to 75 ft lb
- removed and measured it
- measured the Allen socket head bolt and torqued it down to 75 ft lb
- removed and measured it
- RESULTS: the OEM bolts stretched more than the Allen socket head bolts
I repeated the above lubricating the threads on new bolts with copper
anti-seize. The OEM bolt stretched even more than the Allen socket head
bolts.
I repeated the test torquing the bolts higher, the OEM bolt snapped at a
Torque the allen held.
If I can find the bloody email with the data in it I will send it in!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob de Kruyff
You guys are way over-thinking this. If you were to run clamp load vs torque tests, you will find that the sweat and oils from
wiping your nose will provide the same results as any type and amount of lube you can place on the threads.
--
Bob
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Rob, we use a "Skidmore" that directly measures clamp load VS torque. This area is one where a person can spend an entire career and it is filled with unexpected factors that sometimes are more significant than the ones we think are controlling.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Axle Nut Torque [message #287175 is a reply to message #287147] |
Sun, 13 September 2015 14:19 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Rob
Your post on CV joint bolt torque can be found here...
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!msg/gmcnet-archive/1s9HTwnOmMM/TlaseBJJhwAJ
Scroll down.
I am unable to cut and paste -- incompatible software.
It begins...
I stopped by the shop where I buy my nuts and bolts today and purchased
several grade 8 Allen Head Cap Screws (AHCS) (3/8" x 24 x 1 1/4") and some
grade 8 (8 mm) hardened washers. Eight mm washers were purchased because
3/8" washers were too sloppy a fit."
Dennis
USAussie wrote on Sat, 12 September 2015 17:24Bob,
I realize that the following isn't really directly relatable to the front axle torque.
Several years ago we had a discussion here about torquing the inner CV joint bolts. It had to do with installing them dry or
lubricated.
I had some 12 point bolts I had obtained from Cinnabar and I bought some grade 8 Allen head bolts from a local supplier which came
from a company in the USA. I did some testing to see what the affect of applying anti-seize to the bolt and how much they stretched.
I have searched the Forum for CV joint bolt, torque, bolt, 12 point, Allen bolt, and a few other words but I can't seem to find the
email I sent in.
From memory here's a summary of what I did:
- machined the top and bottom of the OEM bolts to assure they were flat.
- machined the bottom of the Allen socket head bolts to assure they were
flat and got a bearing that sat on the bottom of the socket and extended
above the sides of the socket so I could measure it accurately.
- put a final drive flange in my vice
- bolted an inner CV joint housing on top of the flange
- measured the OEM bolt and torqued it down to 75 ft lb
- removed and measured it
- measured the Allen socket head bolt and torqued it down to 75 ft lb
- removed and measured it
- RESULTS: the OEM bolts stretched more than the Allen socket head bolts
I repeated the above lubricating the threads on new bolts with copper
anti-seize. The OEM bolt stretched even more than the Allen socket head
bolts.
I repeated the test torquing the bolts higher, the OEM bolt snapped at a
Torque the allen held.
If I can find the bloody email with the data in it I will send it in!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob de Kruyff
You guys are way over-thinking this. If you were to run clamp load vs torque tests, you will find that the sweat and oils from
wiping your nose will provide the same results as any type and amount of lube you can place on the threads.
--
Bob
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
[Updated on: Sun, 13 September 2015 14:20] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Axle Nut Torque [message #287183 is a reply to message #287171] |
Sun, 13 September 2015 18:04 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
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Bob,
Understand and agree!
Gene Fisher found this:
************************************************************************************
From: Rob Mueller
Date: Friday, May 23, 2008
Subject: [gmclist] Inner CV Joint to Final Drive Flange Bolts
To: gmclist
G'day,
I stopped by the shop where I buy my nuts and bolts today and purchased
several grade 8 Allen Head Cap Screws (AHCS) (3/8" x 24 x 1 1/4") and some
grade 8 (8 mm) hardened washers. Eight mm washers were purchased because
3/8" washers were too sloppy a fit.
The screws were manufactured by:
Brighton-Best Socket Head Screw Manufacturing Inc.
1665 Heraeus Boulevard
Buford, Georgia 30518-3383
The washers were in a bin without any manufacturer labels.
Using a small grind stone in my Dremel tool the holes in the washers were
increased to a snug fit around the AHCS threads.
The threaded end of the AHCS were machined flat so the over all length (OAL)
could be measured accurately.
I've got the whole front suspension system and drive system out of The Blue
Streak so the left final drive flange was clamped in a vice using copper jaw
liners to protect the splines.
The inner CV joint housing was placed on top of the final drive flange and
one of the AHCS was screwed in finger tight to keep them together.
A 0.300 in diameter ball bearing was inserted in the socket head of another
AHCS and the OAL was measured with a micrometer (Measurement #1).
A hardened washer was place on that AHCS and it was screwed it into the
inner CV joint housing 180 degrees opposite the one already installed
without any lubrication.
The 3/8" x 24 AHCS takes a 5/16 Allen wrench. I put an adapter on my torque
wrench (McMaster Carr P/N 5274A12 Easy-Read Adjustable Click-Style Torque
Wrench 3/8" SQ Dr, 5-80 ft-lbs/5-110 NM Torque Range) and set to 45 ft lb.
The AHCS was torqued slowly keeping my arm at an angle of 90 degrees
perpendicular to the wrench until it clicked.
The ball bearing was re-inserted in the AHCS socket and the OAL re-measured
(see measurement #2).
The torque wrench was re-set to 75 ft lb and the AHCS was re-torqued.
The ball bearing was re-inserted in the AHCS socket and the OAL re-measured
(see measurement #3).
The AHCS was removed from the flange, the ball bearing re-inserted in the
socket and the OAL was re-measured (see measurement #4).
Measurement #1 = 1.6160
Measurement #2 = 1.6180 (bolt stretched 0.0020 at 45 ft lb torque)
Measurement #3 = 1.6218 (bolt stretched 0.0058 at 75 ft lb torque)
Measurement #4 = 1.6191 (bolt stretched 0.0031 permanently from new length)
Copper based anti-seize grease was applied to the threads and between the
bottom of the head and the hardened washer of a second AHCS and the test was
repeated.
Measurement #1 = 1.6097
Measurement #2 = 1.6130 (bolt stretched 0.0033 at 45 ft lb torque)
Measurement #3 = 1.6183 (bolt stretched 0.0086 at 75 ft lb torque)
Measurement #4 = 1.6133 (bolt stretched 0.0036 permanently from new length)
NEW SUBJECT:
Steve Rourke of Cinnabar advised that the OEM bolts P/N 394777 were
available for $2.00 each. They also stock the lock washers P/N MS37 at $1.25
ea.
WHAT I'M GOING TO DO:
Twenty four (24) OEM bolts have been ordered from Cinnabar to fit to The
Blue Streak and Double Trouble. When they arrive the heads will be drilled
for safety wire using a cobalt drill bit. If they fit snugly 3/8" hardened
washers will be used under them; if not 8 MM hardened washers will be
reworked. The OEM bolts will be installed using a bit of oil for
lubrication.
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
75 - Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak
75 - Avion - USA - Double Trouble
************************************************************************************
As you can see this was over seven years ago and if I remember correctly when the OEM bolts arrived from Cinnabar I tested them as
well and as noted in my earlier email they stretched more than these allen bolts and one of them snapped.
Gene, were you able to find any other emails from me relating to this subject.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob de Kruyff
Rob, we use a "Skidmore" that directly measures clamp load VS torque. This area is one where a person can spend an entire career and
it is filled with unexpected factors that sometimes are more significant than the ones we think are controlling.
--
Bob
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Axle Nut Torque [message #287196 is a reply to message #287184] |
Sun, 13 September 2015 20:28 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
Discussion on the axle drive shaft bolts has been going on for a number of years as confirmed by past emails. I have always used the Grade 8 Cap screws to attached the axles. When I had the transmissions and final drive change at Buskirk’s in spring 1999 that is what they used along with a little Blue locktite. Max had made the comment that they had never broke one of the Cap screws so that is what they used. They also torqued them to 65FT/LBS. I have never had an issue with bolts coming loose in any of the coaches that I have owned.
Regards,
JR
> On Sep 13, 2015, at 7:10 PM, Robert Mueller wrote:
>
> Dennis,
>
> Thanks for the link! Gene found it as well and pasted it into an email to me.
>
> I noticed that I said I would test the OEM bolts as well, keeping in mind that we're talking about something that happened seven
> years ago and my memory isn't that good.
>
> Can you see if you can find any more emails relating to this?
>
> Or better yet tell me how to search Google groups myself?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis Sexton
>
> Rob
>
> Your post on CV joint bolt torque cab be found here...
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!msg/gmcnet-archive/1s9HTwnOmMM/TlaseBJJhwAJ
>
> Scroll down.
>
> I am unable to cut and paste -- incompatible software.
>
> It begins...
>
> I stopped by the shop where I buy my nuts and bolts today and purchased
> several grade 8 Allen Head Cap Screws (AHCS) (3/8" x 24 x 1 1/4") and some
> grade 8 (8 mm) hardened washers. Eight mm washers were purchased because
> 3/8" washers were too sloppy a fit."
>
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Axle Nut Torque [message #287200 is a reply to message #287184] |
Sun, 13 September 2015 20:47 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Rob
There is a link on bdub.net
http://www.bdub.net/GMCLinks.html
Which takes you here
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!forum/gmcnet-archive
But I just did a Google search for Rob Mueller GMC cv joint bolt
Dennis
USAussie wrote on Sun, 13 September 2015 18:10Dennis,
Thanks for the link! Gene found it as well and pasted it into an email to me.
I noticed that I said I would test the OEM bolts as well, keeping in mind that we're talking about something that happened seven
years ago and my memory isn't that good.
Can you see if you can find any more emails relating to this?
Or better yet tell me how to search Google groups myself?
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Sexton
Rob
Your post on CV joint bolt torque cab be found here...
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!msg/gmcnet-archive/1s9HTwnOmMM/TlaseBJJhwAJ
Scroll down.
I am unable to cut and paste -- incompatible software.
It begins...
I stopped by the shop where I buy my nuts and bolts today and purchased
several grade 8 Allen Head Cap Screws (AHCS) (3/8" x 24 x 1 1/4") and some
grade 8 (8 mm) hardened washers. Eight mm washers were purchased because
3/8" washers were too sloppy a fit."
Dennis
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GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Axle Nut Torque [message #287266 is a reply to message #287196] |
Mon, 14 September 2015 14:30 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""Rob,
Discussion on the axle drive shaft bolts has been going on for a number of years as confirmed by past emails. I have always used the Grade 8 Cap screws to attached the axles. When I had the transmissions and final drive change at Buskirk's in spring 1999 that is what they used along with a little Blue locktite. Max had made the comment that they had never broke one of the Cap screws so that is what they used. They also torqued them to 65FT/LBS. I have never had an issue with bolts coming loose in any of the coaches that I have owned.
Regards,""
Don't they need to use reverse threads down there?
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Axle Nut Torque [message #287272 is a reply to message #287266] |
Mon, 14 September 2015 16:44 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Only on the toilet bowls!
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob de Kruyff
Don't they need to use reverse threads down there?
Bob
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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