| Air Conditioning- Again [message #286876] |
Tue, 08 September 2015 13:05  |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
Karma: 3
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I recently replaced my compressor- installed the new O rings and drier- flushed the lines, evaporator and condenser. Put in 10 oz of mineral oil and 3 cans of Duracool.
Ran the system an got outlet air temp down to 40F. Thought all was well.
Over night Duracool leaked out enough that the compressor won't turn on.
Small amount of oil on the back of the new compressor just below the line connection led me to believe that the O rings were not sealing. Removed the O rings and installed another pair and vacuumed system.
Vac Pump will take it down to 30 in hg but it will not hold once the pump is removed.
I have some Dura Cool Oil Chill- a leak detector dye to use when I get back home.
I have seen no evidence of leak any where in the system except rear of the compressor- Evap, cond, hoses and all connections were clean and dry before I started the project and still are.
If new O rings are leaking what is the solution? Another compressor? New lines?
Any suggestions? Or comments?
Thanks
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Air Conditioning- Again [message #286895 is a reply to message #286885] |
Tue, 08 September 2015 19:45  |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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What John said...check those schrader inserts too...aftermarket 134 fittings often interfere with the schrader if they are the type that still rely on it to make the seal.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Air Conditioning- Again [message #286897 is a reply to message #286895] |
Tue, 08 September 2015 20:04 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Bullitthead wrote on Tue, 08 September 2015 17:45What John said...check those schrader inserts too...aftermarket 134 fittings often interfere with the schrader if they are the type that still rely on it to make the seal.
I just use the r12 valves on mine. I would borrow an electronic leak detector and put around 40 lbs of 134 vapor pressure in it and look for a leak. The most common places are the fittings, compressor seal and the rubber hoses. You can also get some kids bubble stuff and put it in a squirt bottle and spray all those areas with the 40 lb psi in the system and see if you see a leak. Spray the compressor seal too.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Air Conditioning- Again [message #286899 is a reply to message #286895] |
Tue, 08 September 2015 20:31 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Tee your vacuum source into the feed line from the manifold (gauge set) with a valve so you can shut off that possible leak. The other end goes to your refrigerant supply. Evac the system and shut the valve off. Discon the pump, and hook up your dye charger to where the vacuum pump was plumbed in. Open the tee valve and charge the dye in the system while it is still under vacuum. Shut that valve back off. Then charge the system just to get pressure up to ambient. Now get your spray bottle of soapy water and completely douse the system like you are giving it a personal bath. Find those bubbles...spray that clutch and front seal real good. Go as thick on the soap content as you can and still spray it with that trigger. Do not disconnect any of the service hoses yet.
If you still can't find it, charge the system up the rest of the way to the best cooling ability and run it for three hours or more if you can. That will make sure the new seal on the front shaft gets seated and the dye gets distributed. They(new and rebuilt compressors)do that a lot, that is, leak out the first charge rather quick. Get your ultraviolet light and yellow glasses and since it will be nighttime by the time you get all this done(including three hour "test drive"), it is the right time to go snooping for leaks. A blacklight will do the job if it's dark enough in the work area.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: Air Conditioning- Again [message #286910 is a reply to message #286876] |
Wed, 09 September 2015 01:11 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Good Luck. I have a leak that I can not find. I have used dye and found nothing. I just tonight put a vacuum on it again (28 or 29) and I know by morning it will be back at zero. Tomorrow I'm going to charge it with R-134 it and go after it with a sniffer. I'm hoping the sniffer will at least put me in the correct area of the coach.
This is not my first rodeo chasing refrigerant leaks. I had one car where we found 4 or 5 leaks after an engine swap. But... this one on my GMC is driving me absolutely nuts.
Up until this leak on my GMC I would said to you "hang in there and you will find it" but on this one I have not been successful. I'm really thinking it is my front compressor seal but that is purely a guess.
Good Luck and when you fix it stop by and find mine.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Air Conditioning- Again [message #286920 is a reply to message #286910] |
Wed, 09 September 2015 07:35 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Ken Burton wrote on Tue, 08 September 2015 23:11Good Luck. I have a leak that I can not find. I have used dye and found nothing. I just tonight put a vacuum on it again (28 or 29) and I know by morning it will be back at zero. Tomorrow I'm going to charge it with R-134 it and go after it with a sniffer. I'm hoping the sniffer will at least put me in the correct area of the coach.
This is not my first rodeo chasing refrigerant leaks. I had one car where we found 4 or 5 leaks after an engine swap. But... this one on my GMC is driving me absolutely nuts.
Up until this leak on my GMC I would said to you "hang in there and you will find it" but on this one I have not been successful. I'm really thinking it is my front compressor seal but that is purely a guess.
Good Luck and when you fix it stop by and find mine.
If you still can't find it Ken after this what I would do is use a little r12 or 22 if you have it as it ( they find leaks easier then 134) add about 125 lbs dry nitrogen or co2 to the mix then use your sniffer. Air will work also but it does carry moisture in it. I' m pretty sure you will find the leak after you do this. Then pin point it with the bubble solution regular dish soap will work but kids bubbles or A/c big blue works a lot better.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Air Conditioning- Again [message #286950 is a reply to message #286876] |
Wed, 09 September 2015 13:50 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Some of the new compressors do not use an o ring but instead lip seals. Be sure you used the correct type for your unit. Delco or Delphi changed this on R4s and the give you the seals and a spacer kit to fit them to the line set manifold. The area where it would have made contact is relieved so lip seal required. You don't say what comp you used and I know it wouldn't be an R4 but they are doing this so one part fits more applications. Something to watch for.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Air Conditioning- Again [message #286996 is a reply to message #286958] |
Thu, 10 September 2015 01:14 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Well I went to get the community tank of R-22 and I could not find it. They guy whose hangar it was in is out flying somewhere. His airplane is gone. So I attacked the problem using r-134. I put in some dye and 12 OZ of R-134. I again could not find any indication of a dye trace. I was in a completely dark hangar and there was no dye traces anywhere using my UV light. . So I went at it with Mr. Sniffer. The only place Mr. Sniffer alerted was about 3" in front of the compressor clutch. I went over it three times and found nothing except in front of the clutch. So unfortunately the problem in my opinion has to be the compressor seal. I am not looking forward to dropping that compressor. The only time I have done this before was on Dan's coach. The two of us dropped and replaced his twice at a rally Louisiana. I'm a lot weaker now and I do not have Dan to call on for help. I really miss him. He was a good friend.
I have never replaced that front seal. Someone had a write up on how to do it somewhere. Now I just need to find it and also find the correct seal to buy.
I do not need to fix this to go to Rapid City but if I do not do it now, it will be another year before I get to it again. So if I can get the stuff together that I need then I'll attack it next week.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Air Conditioning- Again [message #287008 is a reply to message #286996] |
Thu, 10 September 2015 08:13 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
I've always heard that the front seal can be replaced without removing the
compressor. I've never done it. In fact, I've only done one such seal --
on the S-10's R4 -- and that didn't last long, so the S-10's been without
A/C for about 3 years now. Since I put gasoline in the tank about every 2
months, it's obviously not a BIG problem for me. :-(
Ken H.
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 2:14 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
> Well I went to get the community tank of R-22 and I could not find it.
> They guy whose hangar it was in is out flying somewhere. His airplane is
> gone. So I attacked the problem using r-134. I put in some dye and 12 OZ
> of R-134. I again could not find any indication of a dye trace. I was in
> a completely dark hangar and there was no dye traces anywhere using my UV
> light. . So I went at it with Mr. Sniffer. The only place Mr. Sniffer
> alerted was about 3" in front of the compressor clutch. I went over it
> three times and found nothing except in front of the clutch. So
> unfortunately the problem in my opinion has to be the compressor seal. I
> am not looking forward to dropping that compressor. The only time I have
> done this before was on Dan's coach. The two of us dropped and replaced
> his twice at a rally Louisiana. I'm a lot weaker now and I do not have Dan
> to call on for help. I really miss him. He was a good friend.
>
> I have never replaced that front seal. Someone had a write up on how to
> do it somewhere. Now I just need to find it and also find the correct seal
> to buy.
>
> I do not need to fix this to go to Rapid City but if I do not do it now,
> it will be another year before I get to it again. So if I can get the stuff
> together that I need then I'll attack it next week.
>
>
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Air Conditioning- Again [message #287009 is a reply to message #286876] |
Thu, 10 September 2015 08:31 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Ken -
\Have a look here, we did several over at Ted's shop:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6200-ac-seal-party.html
You will need the pulley puller and the kit of seal remover/replacer tools. George Z had the puller, I borrowed Larry Davick's seal tool kit. You ought to be able to do it on the engine, there's room in front. You're gonna hafta use a mirror to see the clip down inside the front around the shaft. We all used the new style seal. It has two lips so if there's a groove in the shaft it won't matter. Take your time and go slow and it isn't hard - frustrating here and there getting clips and stuff off, but not hard. The same mirror and technique you use on your Grumman will stand you in good stead here. If you can get an A6 from the Men's Mall for cheap, it might be worth it so you can see on it what you're groping for on the mounted one.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Air Conditioning- Again [message #287025 is a reply to message #287009] |
Thu, 10 September 2015 14:24 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I looked at your pictures on bdub's site.
The procedure looks fairly straight forward.
Do you have the part number for the new style seal?
I can get the tools together. Next will be sourcing the parts kit.
Thanks
Ken
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Air Conditioning- Again [message #287027 is a reply to message #287008] |
Thu, 10 September 2015 14:33 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Ken Henderson wrote on Thu, 10 September 2015 08:13Ken,
I've always heard that the front seal can be replaced without removing the
compressor. I've never done it. In fact, I've only done one such seal --
on the S-10's R4 -- and that didn't last long, so the S-10's been without
A/C for about 3 years now. Since I put gasoline in the tank about every 2
months, it's obviously not a BIG problem for me. 
Ken H.
Thanks Ken. I thought about doing it on the coach. I did replace the front bearing once on the coach. It was not fun but I got it done. I might try it on the coach and if I run into problems, simply take it off, and continue with it on the work bench.
Do you have the part number for the improved double lip new seal?
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Air Conditioning- Again [message #287033 is a reply to message #287032] |
Thu, 10 September 2015 16:18 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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And this one's got GOOD photos:
http://www.autoacforum.com/messageview.cfm?catid=20&threadid=18627
Ken H.
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Ken Henderson
wrote:
> Nope, you'll have to get it from Johnny.
>
> But this Google find might be useful:
>
> http://www.v8buick.com/archive/index.php/t-134625.html
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Ken Burton wrote:
>
>> Do you have the part number for the improved double lip new seal?
>> --
>>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Air Conditioning- Again [message #287038 is a reply to message #286876] |
Thu, 10 September 2015 16:41 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Ken, you've enough information above to replace with either seal. The photos are a bit better than ours.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
[Updated on: Thu, 10 September 2015 16:41] Report message to a moderator |
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