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| [GMCnet] trani problem from a different angle [message #286702] |
Sat, 05 September 2015 19:22  |
Burt and Faye curtis
Messages: 256
Registered: June 2012
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I have been thinking about this trani proble - only motivating at high rpm.
The original thought was the new rebuilt trani is defective. What if it
isn't and there is something else going on. My thoughts for this are the
trani just pulled out was having similar symptoms last fall, They became
worse with more driving, until it started slipping and only being able to
move with excessive fluid added. Several other rebuilds had similar
symptoms, but were pulled and rebuilt before the problem became total. When
they were tore apart for rebuild, nothing seemed amiss, Hence could the
underlying problem be something else and not the main trani at all? And if
so, what should I check?
As I see it, potential problems could be :
1) lines hooked up backwards
2) filter not properly seated
3) linkage not connected properly
4) modulator
5) govenor
6) external oil filter creating problems
7) ????
Numbers 1, 3, 5, and 6 have been constant in the last 17 years, however
this has been an ongoing problem of sorts. Bert usually just added more
fluid and everything seemed fine, until it didn't. The modulator is new to
this trani.
Not being even a shade tree mechanic, I am not sure which could lead to
this trouble so not sure where to start looking first. And I am not sure if
there is something so simple that everyone is overlooking it that isn't on
this list.
Any thoughts, help and/or suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks,
Fay Curtis
1976 Glenbrook aka Tumbleweed
Kneeland, CA
707-443-8523
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| Re: [GMCnet] trani problem from a different angle [message #286704 is a reply to message #286702] |
Sat, 05 September 2015 19:52  |
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wally
Messages: 643
Registered: August 2004
Location: Omaha Nebraska
Karma: 5
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Burt and Faye curtis wrote on Sat, 05 September 2015 19:22I have been thinking about this trani proble - only motivating at high rpm.
The original thought was the new rebuilt trani is defective. What if it
isn't and there is something else going on. My thoughts for this are the
trani just pulled out was having similar symptoms last fall, They became
worse with more driving, until it started slipping and only being able to
move with excessive fluid added. Several other rebuilds had similar
symptoms, but were pulled and rebuilt before the problem became total. When
they were tore apart for rebuild, nothing seemed amiss, Hence could the
underlying problem be something else and not the main trani at all? And if
so, what should I check?
As I see it, potential problems could be :
1) lines hooked up backwards
2) filter not properly seated
3) linkage not connected properly
4) modulator
5) govenor
6) external oil filter creating problems
7) ????
Numbers 1, 3, 5, and 6 have been constant in the last 17 years, however
this has been an ongoing problem of sorts. Bert usually just added more
fluid and everything seemed fine, until it didn't. The modulator is new to
this trani.
Not being even a shade tree mechanic, I am not sure which could lead to
this trouble so not sure where to start looking first. And I am not sure if
there is something so simple that everyone is overlooking it that isn't on
this list.
Any thoughts, help and/or suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks,
Fay Curtis
1976 Glenbrook aka Tumbleweed
Kneeland, CA
707-443-8523
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You might try it with the front wheels off the ground to see if you have all three speeds forward and reverse. That would tell if the governor is working. Then trying it with the modulator disconnected would tell if that part was working if it shifted up at a higher speed. Just a thought and it might show something.
Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] trani problem from a different angle [message #286709 is a reply to message #286706] |
Sat, 05 September 2015 20:52 |
Burt and Faye curtis
Messages: 256
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 4
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If convertor was not totally seated properly, would the trani to engine go
together and work, even if not optimally?
Trani's direct from Manny worked well until the fluid was changed by me.
Hence the thought of filter not properly seated. Feel I checked this one
quite well, being informed on the problems of it being loose, but in
hindsight, maybe I missed something. Tried pulling it out and could not get
it to budge. Really hate to drain the fluid as the pan on this one doesn't
have a drain plug.
On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 6:19 PM, John Sharpe wrote:
> Excessive rpm is either bad converter or slipping clutches. Pressures need
> to be checked. Low fluid would cause low pressure. If it's slipping in 1st
> gear with adequate fluid level, the tranny is going to have to come out.
> --
> John Sharpe
> Humble, TX
> 78 Eleganza II
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] trani problem from a different angle [message #286714 is a reply to message #286702] |
Sat, 05 September 2015 21:30 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Burt and Faye curtis wrote on Sat, 05 September 2015 17:22I have been thinking about this trani proble - only motivating at high rpm.
The original thought was the new rebuilt trani is defective. What if it
isn't and there is something else going on.
5) govenor
I recently had a governor problem and the weights were hitting the bottom of the floor of the dome. It caused the coach to start in 3rd gear. This made it very sluggish when going forward. Reverse was normal.
This does not necessarily fit the situation you asked about; a problem that crosses two transmissions. I am assuming the rebuilt you just put in came with a governor?
This lost fluid is the one that I just can't get a hold of. Adding quarts of fluid have to go somewhere. That is a lot of fluid. (This is coming from a guy who just used 6 quarts of engine oil in 1900 miles and no one can see it smoke, and after parking one night, not one drop on the ground.)
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] trani problem from a different angle [message #286717 is a reply to message #286702] |
Sat, 05 September 2015 22:01 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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[quote
And if
so, what should I check?
As I see it, potential problems could be :
1) lines hooked up backwards
2) filter not properly seated
3) linkage not connected properly
4) modulator
5) govenor
6) external oil filter creating problems
7) ????
Numbers 1, 3, 5, and 6 have been constant in the last 17 years, however
this has been an ongoing problem of sorts. Bert usually just added more
fluid and everything seemed fine, until it didn't. The modulator is new to
this trani.
Not being even a shade tree mechanic, I am not sure which could lead to
this trouble so not sure where to start looking first. And I am not sure if
there is something so simple that everyone is overlooking it that isn't on
this list.
Any thoughts, help and/or suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks,
Fay Curtis
1976 Glenbrook aka Tumbleweed
Kneeland, CA
[/quote]
Fay
Tell us -- what is the route of the transmission cooler lines?
Are you saying you have a remote transmissio cooler and external transmission filter?
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] trani problem from a different angle [message #286722 is a reply to message #286717] |
Sat, 05 September 2015 23:56 |
Burt and Faye curtis
Messages: 256
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Regarding the govenor - same one was used in every rebuild. Thought Bert
had moved the one from the spare trani to the one that was in the coach
last Dec. Maybe he did, maybe he`didn't. Either way, the one that was on
the trani when we pulled it is the one on the trani now in the coach. Going
to try cleaning the one that is out and then interchange them to see if
that does anything different.
Regarding the lines/cooler. Yes, have a remote cooler and a remote filter
- besides the filter in the trani. The route of the lines is:
From fitting closest to the passenger's side, the line runs to the remote
filter then to top of cooler. Line exits bottom of cooler and heads back to
the "outside" fitting on the trani (one closest to driver's side).
Regarding where the fluid was going, feel I was just drowning the trani as
emptyed over 9 quarts from the pan drain. Was probably low to start with
and then as it wouldn't move adding more let it move.
Fay
PS Glad to know you are on the road George, with all the GMC projects done,
I hope.
On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 8:01 PM, Dennis Sexton wrote:
> [quote
>
> And if
> so, what should I check?
> As I see it, potential problems could be :
>
> 1) lines hooked up backwards
> 2) filter not properly seated
> 3) linkage not connected properly
> 4) modulator
> 5) govenor
> 6) external oil filter creating problems
> 7) ????
>
> Numbers 1, 3, 5, and 6 have been constant in the last 17 years, however
> this has been an ongoing problem of sorts. Bert usually just added more
> fluid and everything seemed fine, until it didn't. The modulator is new to
> this trani.
> Not being even a shade tree mechanic, I am not sure which could lead to
> this trouble so not sure where to start looking first. And I am not sure if
> there is something so simple that everyone is overlooking it that isn't on
> this list.
>
> Any thoughts, help and/or suggestions would be welcome.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Fay Curtis
> 1976 Glenbrook aka Tumbleweed
> Kneeland, CA
>
> [/quote]
>
> Fay
>
> Tell us -- what is the route of the transmission cooler lines?
> Are you saying you have a remote transmissio cooler and external
> transmission filter?
> Dennis
>
> --
> Dennis S
> 73 Painted Desert 230
> Germantown, TN
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] trani problem from a different angle [message #286725 is a reply to message #286722] |
Sun, 06 September 2015 03:27 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Oh man, I just spent 1/2 hour typing a response then I hit the wrong key and lost all of it. Here is the condensed version of what I think I typed:
Why not start with the easiest (less work) things first.
1. Build yourself a bypass hose out of a couple of connectors and a piece of 5/16" or 3/8" rubber hose. Cable clamps will do on the hose as it is low pressure. Remove the trans cooler lines at the transmission and install this bypass. Now try to drive it and see if it makes any difference. Do not drive too long as you have no operational trans cooler.
2. Are you sure that you are starting out in 1 st gear? Try a different modulator and a different governor. I know the modulator is adjustable. You stick a screwdriver in the end and turn the screw slightly. Talk to Manny on the modulator and Wally on the governor.
3. Pull the pan and check the filter. There were some that were made wrong and the pickup tube was too high. This caused it to suck air. There were some pictures of this on bdub's photo site. I'll see if I can find them. There was also some problems with some filter tubes going to the trans being too small causing them to leak air. Some people just replaced them with a different brand. I also heard some were putting double o-rings on them.
4. While you have the pan off. A few years back Manny had some problems with kick down solenoids. The solenoid is easy to get to at this point. Talk to Manny and ask if you should look at or pull the solenoid. I do not know the failure symptom on this. Ask Manny before you mess with it. I have never seen one that failed.
5. Next is the torque converter. Unfortunately you have to pull the trans to get to the TQ. I do not know how to diagnose a bad one so my procedure would be to just replace it with another new (rebuilt) one.
I'm not an expert on transmissions. This is just the way I would go at it.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] trani problem from a different angle [message #286730 is a reply to message #286722] |
Sun, 06 September 2015 07:00 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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Burt and Faye curtis wrote on Sat, 05 September 2015 21:56Regarding the govenor - same one was used in every rebuild. Thought Bert
had moved the one from the spare trani to the one that was in the coach
last Dec. Maybe he did, maybe he`didn't. Either way, the one that was on
the trani when we pulled it is the one on the trani now in the coach.
Fay,
If the governor is sticking or not working and it is starting in 3rd gear, pulling the lever to Low will force the transmission to start in Low. That could be a quick test. Wally Anderson is the governor man. He rebuilds and knows them inside and out.
Yes, we made the 1900 mi to our friends, Randy and Margie Van Winkles, in Battlefield, MO. So far the coach is doing fine.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] trani problem from a different angle [message #286789 is a reply to message #286730] |
Mon, 07 September 2015 01:21 |
LarryInSanDiego
Messages: 336
Registered: September 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I test the one way clutch in the torque converter with my middle finger. I use it to try to reach the splined stator through the converter opening. It takes a bit of effort but should rotate in one direction, but NOT the other (I forget which is which - not important anyway). If it rotates in neither or both directions, the stator one way clutch is at fault, with different driveability symptoms of course.
Larry Engelbrecht
San Diego, CA
'73 26' ex-Glacier
TZE063V100319 03/07/73
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| Re: [GMCnet] trani problem from a different angle [message #286829 is a reply to message #286702] |
Mon, 07 September 2015 17:06 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Regardless of what you end up finding, you should use the cooler in the radiator as well, because the radiator also helps warm up the trans fluid in cold weather. Go Trans->External filter->External cooler->Radiator cooler->Trans.
How's your diffy? Which one do you have? 3.21 is a planetary type. 3.07 is not. Maybe something wrong with that.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] trani problem from a different angle [message #286836 is a reply to message #286829] |
Mon, 07 September 2015 17:53 |
Burt and Faye curtis
Messages: 256
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 4
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Not sure what is considered cold weather - if it drops below 50 here it is
considered cold! Cooler using has a bypass valve that does allow the fluid
to enter the cooler until a certain temp - not sure what that is right now,
so that so allow the fluid to warm up a bit.
Thinking I have had success regarding the problem. Not sure what solved it,
but the trani seems to be performing as expected now.
Jacked it up and refilled the final drive. Also tried to remove the govener
without dropping the header. As expected, that wasn't possible, but was
able to left it up a bit, rotate it and reinstall it. While the coach was
front off the ground, I started it up and ran it through the gears, ducking
outside in each gear to see what was happening. In reverse, driver's wheel
turned slowly, passenger's not at all. In drive, second and first both
wheels turned nicely. Went back in reverse, and both wheels were turning
quickly. Shut it off, lowered it and took it for the driveway test drive.
Was working better than last time and as I drove it, it continued to get
better. Was still puking fluid from the overfill, but when I finally parked
it and let it sit, that had stopped. Wondering if because it had been
sitting in the shop for several years that the seals needed to rehydrate or
had got a little sticky and just running it freed everything up. Took it
out for a 20 mile test drive up steep climbs, flats and downhill and all
seems to be working well, so the plan is to leave Tuesday afternoon and try
to meet up with the group around Moab, UT - or at least in Cortez, CO.
Unfortunately, my copilot had to bail, so I am currently looking for
another - it is a long boring drive across Nevada by oneself. With luck I
will be seeing everyone in Pueblo and or Rapid City.
Life is much better than it was the end of last week.
Thank you everyone for all of your thoughts, hints and help. Knock wood,
the problem is gone.
Fay Curtis
1976 Glenbrook aka Tumbleweed that is soon to be rolling along :)
Kneeland, CA
On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Chris Choffat wrote:
> Regardless of what you end up finding, you should use the cooler in the
> radiator as well, because the radiator also helps warm up the trans fluid in
> cold weather. Go Trans->External filter->External cooler->Radiator
> cooler->Trans.
>
> How's your diffy? Which one do you have? 3.21 is a planetary type. 3.07 is
> not. Maybe something wrong with that.
> --
> -Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
> Scottsdale, AZ
> 77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
> 2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
>
> Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] trani problem from a different angle [message #286840 is a reply to message #286837] |
Mon, 07 September 2015 18:26 |
Burt and Faye curtis
Messages: 256
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 4
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Ditto, Kerry. Liked the photos Ken H showed us of your projects.
On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 4:10 PM, Kerry Pinkerton
wrote:
> GREAT news Faye! I'm very much looking forward to meeting you in person.
> --
> Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
>
> 77 Eleganza II, 403CI, Manny Brakes, 1 ton, tranny, lots of aluminum
> goodies.
>
> http://www.bdub.net/pinkerton/
>
> '03 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] trani problem from a different angle [message #286850 is a reply to message #286836] |
Mon, 07 September 2015 20:36 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Burt and Faye curtis wrote on Mon, 07 September 2015 15:53
Took it
out for a 20 mile test drive up steep climbs, flats and downhill and all
seems to be working well, so the plan is to leave Tuesday afternoon and try
to meet up with the group around Moab, UT - or at least in Cortez, CO.
Unfortunately, my copilot had to bail, so I am currently looking for
another - it is a long boring drive across Nevada by oneself. With luck I
will be seeing everyone in Pueblo and or Rapid City.
Life is much better than it was the end of last week.
Thank you everyone for all of your thoughts, hints and help. Knock wood,
the problem is gone.
Fay Curtis
1976 Glenbrook aka Tumbleweed that is soon to be rolling along 
Kneeland, CA
GJF (Good Job Fay) These things can make you nuts but you stayed with it and got it done. Safe journeys.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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