Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Best rear (and or front) wheel bearing grease ( If cost is no object to keep tire-wheel-drum-hub attached )
| Best rear (and or front) wheel bearing grease [message #285392] |
Wed, 19 August 2015 13:35  |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Basicly a question to Matt on the best choice. We pretty much agree Synpower is tops for zerks and steering shaft CVs but I wonder if there is a better choice specificly for wheel bearings. I would easily pay $20 a tub to prevent a rear wheel from passing me. Things have changed in lubricant world in the last 40 years but wondering if the "old stuff" was better at this one job.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Best rear (and or front) wheel bearing grease [message #285393 is a reply to message #285392] |
Wed, 19 August 2015 13:45  |
77Royale
Messages: 461
Registered: June 2014
Location: Mid Michigan
Karma: 6
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I got my front knuckles, hubs and bearings reworked and assembled by Mr. Lenzi, He used Mobil 1 and puts that in his instructions for future greasing.
I used the same on my rear bearings.
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best rear (and or front) wheel bearing grease [message #285397 is a reply to message #285394] |
Wed, 19 August 2015 15:57 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
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Dave Lenzi does like to use the Mobil 1 grease on the fronts bearing hub assembly because when doing a grease add/change he likes to see the grease turn red as the old dark grease is pushed out of the bearings thru the seal. When I talked to him last week he said that he has no problem using the Valvoline SYNpower Full Synthetic grease on the front bearings also, just makes it harder to see the fresh grease because of its dark color. Valvoline also makes a DURAblend Synthetic Blend grease which is the hot tip on you're steering shaft, steering universals and front steering zerks and rear pins. You can use both the Valvoline SYNpower and the Mobil 1 on the rear hub bearings. I have all three set up in different grease guns.
http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/durablend_grease.pdf
http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/synpower_grease.pdf
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENGRSMOMobil_1_Synthetic_Grease.aspx
JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMCMHI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
> On Aug 19, 2015, at 3:00 PM, Kingsley Coach wrote:
>
> John
> I was able to get a wheel to pass me for a lot less than $20...just sayin'
>
> Mike in NS
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Wayne Rogewski wrote:
>
>> I got my front knuckles, hubs and bearings reworked and assembled by Mr.
>> Lenzi, He used Mobil 1 and puts that in his instructions for future
>> greasing.
>>
>> I used the same on my rear bearings.
>> --
>> 77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403.
>> Mid Michigan
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> Michael Beaton
> 1977 Kingsley 26-11
> 1977 Eleganza II 26-3
> Antigonish, NS
>
> Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
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GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: Best rear (and or front) wheel bearing grease [message #285402 is a reply to message #285392] |
Wed, 19 August 2015 17:38 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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I agree with Dave as the nice clean red feature is great but I quit buying Mobil 1 due to the leaky phase separation mess. I'll look into the Deere grease but I may need to refinance to buy a tube if it says Deere. I suppose same is true for Cat but they make so many Greases I wouldn't know which is best for us.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best rear (and or front) wheel bearing grease [message #285424 is a reply to message #285420] |
Thu, 20 August 2015 02:15 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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USAussie wrote on Wed, 19 August 2015 23:55John,
I was going to change over to Valvoline Synpower (VS) but the first time I greased the wheel bearings in my Lenzi knuckles through
the grease zerk I noticed the change in color when you get clean grease, as noted it goes from dark red (old grease) to bright red
(new grease) so I changed my mind and stayed with Mobil 1. I also noted that spinning the hub while I greased seems to have gotten
more of the old grease out.
All the rest of the GMC is greased with VS. Here in Australia VS is not available so I use Caterpillar Desert Gold which is the same
formulation. Bob Cook put me on to that grease.
I agree Mobil 1's separation is a PITA. I discovered that if you pull the plunger back and remove the spring pressure that is
applied to the grease in the gun it bleeds less but then the grease gun is a PITA to store because it's longer. If you remove the
cartridge from the grease gun altogether and put some Saran wrap around both ends of the open tube it's even better still.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: John R. Lebetski
I agree with Dave as the nice clean red feature is great but I quit buying Mobil 1 due to the leaky phase separation mess. I'll look
into the Deere grease but I may need to refinance to buy a tube if it says Deere. I suppose same is true for Cat but they make so
many Greases I wouldn't know which is best for us.
--
John
I greased my rear wheel bearings a few years back with Mobile One. I stopped by Blaine's on the way to a rally in New Mexico (I believe). Blaine asked where the oil came from that was leaking around the dust covers of the rear wheels. (I do not have wheel covers installed) We pulled the rear hubs and found that all of the Mobil One grease had turned to a liquid (like oil) and the bearing were barely lubricated. We repacked all of the rear bearings with Valvoline Synn Power. That was at least 5 years ago. I just had two of the hubs off a couple of months ago and they still looked great. I would never use Mobil One grease in anything where you want it so stay around for a while.
I also have Dave's greasable front bearings. I called him and asked if I could use something other than Mobil One and he said sure. So Valvoline Synn power is now in the front. A couple of years later Dave got on me at a rally for saying the I would never use Mobile One grease. So one time he said what I proposed was doing was fine and later he was unhappy that I published my dislike for Mobile one.
I'm just happy that Blaine spotted my problem before it took out some rear bearings.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Best rear (and or front) wheel bearing grease [message #285449 is a reply to message #285392] |
Thu, 20 August 2015 11:01 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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John,
This may be more answer than you want, but here goes....
Both running ships and working in engineering test labs has given me a rather interesting perspective on this. Also, in my collection there are still many power tools that my father (gone 35 years now)and I used to build both boats and spars. After I lost one to a lubrication failure, I started investigating. His favorite was what was called "long fiber" wheel bearing grease. I still have some, but I am not sure why as it has pretty nearly set up. That was what killed the one gear set.
I started using molybdenum disulfide lubricants when there was no other way to keep a 20hp 100cc motocross bike form seizing pistons. I had used it other places, but none so drastic. I have since decided that it is something that should be included where ever the associated stains can be tolerated.
My first experience with synthetic grease was in a high temperature testing setup that would kill any normal grease or lube oil. (A good two beer story there for some day.) The rig survived with the Mobil 1 aircraft grease ($$). That grease was what later became Mobil 1 grease and it too had the separation issue. That didn't seem to hurt anything but it made a mess that my techs protested. I took up using it in a special application of my own and that started a search for others. I already knew I wanted a synthetic as they are less affected by heat and age, but I also wanted the MoS2.
About our wheel bearings. I have just finished replacing all the bearing in the rear of our coach. (Those that read me regularly will know why.) Yes, I am paranoid, old and paranoid. Of the six bearing, all still contained adequate grease and there are none that I would not have put back in service. I do not know the actual ages, but I have had the coach nearly 50K and coming up on the years and I never replaced them. Those bearings were repacked shortly after the reaction arm install about 18K ago. We (Tom Pryor and I) are still begging favors to try to very specifically nail down what happened, but the remaining spindle does indicate that the inner race was able to turn on the spindle without over heat or metal transfer. I have since found out that this type grease is what is in new passcar wheel bearings that go 20+ years and 200K. There are not enough over that for my contact to confirm greater - yet.
Yes, when I push new grease into my Lenzi hubs (I had him pack mine with Synpower), I won't be able to tell when clean grease comes out, but I bet I will just push enough through so that I am sure. Grease is cheaper than parts.
Espen Heitmann recently discovered a failing bearing in his coach. He has no data on the age except that is was not a OE part. I am hoping to get that part to both Tom Pryor (an OE bearing eng at one time) and another bearing guy for opinions.
Now, a personal case study.
Do you know about old Gravelys? Imagine a lawn and garden device that is largely case iron and has few fasteners smaller than 1/2-13. The designer had a very pronounced "Battleship complex". Along the way, and attachment was designed that had a problem, the correction required installing a small needle bearing. It was small because there was not room for the right size, but the roller still was better life than the original bronze. The bronze was good for about 5~10 hours, and the needle was maybe good for 25. Those that know just replace this every season, it only takes about 2 hours. I ran that on Mobil 1 for about two seasons (~50hrs) before I noticed that it was getting chewed up. When I replaced that bearing, I packed it with Synpower and decided that I would let it run until I was a problem. That lasted about for seasons until I had to make another repair. I repacked that bearing and put it back into service about four years ago.
So, to answer your actual question directly.
No, I don't believe that there is any of the "old stuff" that is near what the modern grease can do. This is just one way that our old beasts can take advantage of the developments in the last forty-odd years.
Matt
JohnL455 wrote on Wed, 19 August 2015 14:35Basicly a question to Matt on the best choice. We pretty much agree Synpower is tops for zerks and steering shaft CVs but I wonder if there is a better choice specificly for wheel bearings. I would easily pay $20 a tub to prevent a rear wheel from passing me. Things have changed in lubricant world in the last 40 years but wondering if the "old stuff" was better at this one job.
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Best rear (and or front) wheel bearing grease [message #285525 is a reply to message #285392] |
Fri, 21 August 2015 08:19 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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No, I was asking Matt regarding the recent episode. But any data collection is good. I error to the loose side when cotter pinning, and I would think Matt would be meticulous about that step, so I was looking to other reasons for the failure, with grease type used during failure being one of the things considered.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Best rear (and or front) wheel bearing grease [message #285529 is a reply to message #285525] |
Fri, 21 August 2015 08:34 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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John,
I am paranoid about such things. I regularly get out a mag base and a dial gauge to make sure that the end play is between 5 and 10 mills. With the tabbed washers, I can usually hit 8~10.
There is the strange case here too, that maybe if the grease had allowed the spinning inner race to seize on the spindle, we might have noticed the problem before the wheel departed. Unfortunately, we may never know.
Matt
JohnL455 wrote on Fri, 21 August 2015 09:19No, I was asking Matt regarding the recent episode. But any data collection is good. I error to the loose side when cotter pinning, and I would think Matt would be meticulous about that step, so I was looking to other reasons for the failure, with grease type used during failure being one of the things considered.
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Best rear (and or front) wheel bearing grease [message #285533 is a reply to message #285529] |
Fri, 21 August 2015 09:17 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Matt Colie wrote on Fri, 21 August 2015 09:34John,
I am paranoid about such things. I regularly get out a mag base and a dial gauge to make sure that the end play is between 5 and 10 mills. With the tabbed washers, I can usually hit 8~10.
There is the strange case here too, that maybe if the grease had allowed the spinning inner race to seize on the spindle, we might have noticed the problem before the wheel departed. Unfortunately, we may never know.
Matt
JohnL455 wrote on Fri, 21 August 2015 09:19No, I was asking Matt regarding the recent episode. But any data collection is good. I error to the loose side when cotter pinning, and I would think Matt would be meticulous about that step, so I was looking to other reasons for the failure, with grease type used during failure being one of the things considered.
This subject reminds me of the "tire wars" of old.
I run Mobil 1 in all 6 (fronts are Lenzi redone) and rears (waiting on final analyses of Matt's bearing failure before installing my reaction arm kit) and like everyone here, don't want any problems.
Wondering if I should
(1) convert to John Deere Original Equipment Grease #TY6341 (always trusted what Bob Drewes had to say about all things GMC) which is on Amazon Prime for $10.94 & FREE Shipping.
(2) Or should I go to Valvoline VV985 SynPower Synthetic Grease (Ken H and others I respect seem to love the stuff) for $6.38 with Amazon free shipping.
(3) Or should I run 3 greases like PowerJon?
(4) Or I could stick with Mobil 1 as I've done for the past 10 years and about 70,000 miles?
Life was so uncomplicated before I got a GMC.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best rear (and or front) wheel bearing grease [message #285546 is a reply to message #285533] |
Fri, 21 August 2015 15:21 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Guys,
This is not to start a “GREASE WAR” or anything else. I just made comments on what I have run over the last 18 years I have owned a GMC. All these greases are very good and will meet your needs depending on what you choose. In the past I have used Mobil 1 in the fronts and back at all grease points. Have stopped using it in the rear bearings because of the separation that does happen at times and I did see that at the last repack. At present I use only the Valvoline SynPower Synthetic grease on the front bearings twice a year and on the rear bearings when I redid them a while back. I use the Valvoline DURABlend because OTHERS have found that it works great to keep you're steering slip joint above the steering box in good condition too. I also use the DURABlend on all zerk grease points on the chassis. Guy’s you run what you want!
JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMCMHI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
> On Aug 21, 2015, at 10:17 AM, RJW wrote:
>
> Matt Colie wrote on Fri, 21 August 2015 09:34
>> John,
>>
>> I am paranoid about such things. I regularly get out a mag base and a dial gauge to make sure that the end play is between 5 and 10 mills. With
>> the tabbed washers, I can usually hit 8~10.
>>
>> There is the strange case here too, that maybe if the grease had allowed the spinning inner race to seize on the spindle, we might have noticed
>> the problem before the wheel departed. Unfortunately, we may never know.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> JohnL455 wrote on Fri, 21 August 2015 09:19
>>> No, I was asking Matt regarding the recent episode. But any data collection is good. I error to the loose side when cotter pinning, and I
>>> would think Matt would be meticulous about that step, so I was looking to other reasons for the failure, with grease type used during failure
>>> being one of the things considered.
>
> This subject reminds me of the "tire wars" of old.
>
> I run Mobil 1 in all 6 (fronts are Lenzi redone) and rears (waiting on final analyses of Matt's bearing failure before installing my reaction arm kit)
> and like everyone here, don't want any problems.
>
> Wondering if I should
> (1) convert to John Deere Original Equipment Grease #TY6341 (always trusted what Bob Drewes had to say about all things GMC) which is on Amazon Prime
> for $10.94 & FREE Shipping.
>
> (2) Or should I go to Valvoline VV985 SynPower Synthetic Grease (Ken H and others I respect seem to love the stuff) for $6.38 with Amazon free
> shipping.
>
> (3) Or should I run 3 greases like PowerJon?
>
> (4) Or I could stick with Mobil 1 as I've done for the past 10 years and about 70,000 miles?
>
> Life was so uncomplicated before I got a GMC.
> --
> Richard
> 76 Palm Beach
> SE Michigan
> www.PalmBeachGMC.com
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: Best rear (and or front) wheel bearing grease [message #285580 is a reply to message #285533] |
Sat, 22 August 2015 08:21 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Richard,
If you are comfortable with the grease(s) you are using, you should consider staying with them.
But,
If you have the "Arm Kit", it is my opinion that you should consider pushing that up the list.
One truly neat thing about it is that the only hard mod to a coach part is counter sinking the four (16) holes in the spindle. So, if you don't like it or have some problem, the mos can be reversed and the only thing you need are the long cap screws and nuts that secure the backing plate and spindle to the arm.
Matt
rjw wrote on Fri, 21 August 2015 10:17
This subject reminds me of the "tire wars" of old.
I run Mobil 1 in all 6 (fronts are Lenzi redone) and rears (waiting on final analyses of Matt's bearing failure before installing my reaction arm kit) and like everyone here, don't want any problems.
Wondering if I should
(1) convert to John Deere Original Equipment Grease #TY6341 (always trusted what Bob Drewes had to say about all things GMC) which is on Amazon Prime for $10.94 & FREE Shipping.
(2) Or should I go to Valvoline VV985 SynPower Synthetic Grease (Ken H and others I respect seem to love the stuff) for $6.38 with Amazon free shipping.
(3) Or should I run 3 greases like PowerJon?
(4) Or I could stick with Mobil 1 as I've done for the past 10 years and about 70,000 miles?
Life was so uncomplicated before I got a GMC.
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Best rear (and or front) wheel bearing grease [message #285645 is a reply to message #285580] |
Sun, 23 August 2015 08:55 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Matt Colie wrote on Sat, 22 August 2015 09:21Richard,
If you are comfortable with the grease(s) you are using, you should consider staying with them.
But,
If you have the "Arm Kit", it is my opinion that you should consider pushing that up the list.
One truly neat thing about it is that the only hard mod to a coach part is counter sinking the four (16) holes in the spindle.
So, if you don't like it or have some problem, the mos can be reversed and the only thing you need are the long cap screws
and nuts that secure the backing plate and spindle to the arm.
Matt
Matt,
Sadly, even though this is the middle of August, I am out of time for deferred GMC projects like taking all the rear wheels off and installing the "Arm Kit". Installing that would take me at least a week and I don't have a spare week.
I have too many other GMC things to fix, stuff on our cars, son's work box truck etc. etc. before the ground and water starts to freeze around here. I don't like to work outside when it's cold. Our hanger is not an option since it is not heated and full of my 85 year old partners sports cars and motorcycles. There is barely enough room for storing the GMC. Amazing to think that we used to have an airplane in there as well.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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