Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Engine Rebuild Break-in Procedure (Engine rebuild; Engine Break-in)
| Engine Rebuild Break-in Procedure [message #283889] |
Mon, 03 August 2015 23:46  |
Pryzl1
Messages: 100
Registered: November 2011
Location: Toledo, OH
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I'm in the process of having a 455 CID engine, purchased from a GMC owner, rebuilt. The machine shop is very close to completing the rebuild. Searching the Forum and GMCMI, I found information on engine rebuilds, limited information regarding the break-in process, and virtually no information on "how does one know when the engine break-in process is complete?"
Would appreciate your thoughts and comments on the recommended break-in process and "when is the engine break-in complete?"
Thanking you in advance for your inputs!
John
1976 GMC Eleganza II - "The Never Ending Story"
Partial Restoration - a work in progress
455cc
NW Ohio
Member of the GMCMI, GMC Great Lakers Motorhome Club, GMCES and Dixielanders
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Engine Rebuild Break-in Procedure [message #283895 is a reply to message #283889] |
Tue, 04 August 2015 01:19  |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Pryzl1 wrote on Mon, 03 August 2015 21:46I'm in the process of having a 455 CID engine, purchased from a GMC owner, rebuilt. The machine shop is very close to completing the rebuild. Searching the Forum and GMCMI, I found information on engine rebuilds, limited information regarding the break-in process, and virtually no information on "how does one know when the engine break-in process is complete?"
Would appreciate your thoughts and comments on the recommended break-in process and "when is the engine break-in complete?"
Thanking you in advance for your inputs!
Dick Paterson has a great presentation on this. One of the main things is that the engine must run at least 20+ minutes the first time. He makes his guys check water, fuel, spark, oil, etc. twice before cranking the engine. The thinking is with solid lifters they put some goo on the cam and some break-in additives in the oil. The lifters must have time to settle into the cam with good oil pressure. I think they like them to run at 2500 RPMs. I watched my engine (not a Paterson) run and the mechanic ran it at about 2500 but also ran it up a little more from time to time.
This is so critical that I think they say if you have to stop the engine because of heat, or fuel or whatever, you need to recoat the cam with the special goo.
There are folks here who know way more but it is important to run it for a while.
After that, I ran mine pretty normally, but that is about 2500 for me. Don't let it get hot. Of course my engine burns oil like it is a second fuel source so what do I know?.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild Break-in Procedure [message #283912 is a reply to message #283889] |
Tue, 04 August 2015 09:56 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
John,
You have gotten all sort of good suggestions here.
Here is a list of things I would do.
1. Make sure that your engine is ready to run for at least 20 min on first start up without shutting down. This is for cam and lifter seating and should be run at 2500 rpm. Engine should also be prelubed before you first start.
2. Use only a dino based oil for break in and get some EOS break in oil.
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?partnumber=EOS
or
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/RYP0/11487/N2556.oap?ck=Search_N2556_-1_-1&pt=N2556&ppt=C1941
There are other out their, but these are good.
3. After the initial 20 minute run in, remove and replace oil filter and top off oil. Cut oil filter open and look and see what is inside. Don’t be surprised, you're going to find some junk in the filter, you just don’’t want to see large amounts of metal flake.
4. Run this break in oil for the next 600 to 1000 miles then change oil and again cut filter open and check again. You should use only a Dino based oil for the first 6000 to 10000 miles to allow for a good ring break in. I would change the oil every 3000 miles +/-. If after that you feel that you want to run a synthetic oil such as Mobil 1 or others then it would be ok to do that. As a personal choice I always run a ZDDP supplement at each oil change. Others will say why, but I say it doesn’t hurt. I also run the big filter magnet that Dick Paterson sold.
http://rislone.com/product/3x-concentrated-engine-oil-supplement-with-zinc-treatment/
I also sometimes use this additive also.
http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/1018
5. What oil brand do I recommend, NONE! There are many good oils out there that will work just fine, both dino and synthetic. Blackstone Laboratories put out a great report in July 2014 and it is good reading.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/5244/Oil_Report_on_Brand.pdf
It is a PDF file so you will have to click on it twice to open.
Right now I run Mobil 1 15/50 in the stretch coach engine because that is what I was running when I got the coach. I can find that at Walmart and usually get the 5 qt jug at less than $25. The other coach runs Quaker State dino and I may stay with that.
This is how I have done it and from recommendation from other engine builders.
JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMCMHI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
> On Aug 4, 2015, at 12:46 AM, John Pryzbylek wrote:
>
> I'm in the process of having a 455 CID engine, purchased from a GMC owner, rebuilt. The machine shop is very close to completing the rebuild.
> Searching the Forum and GMCMI, I found information on engine rebuilds, limited information regarding the break-in process, and virtually no
> information on "how does one know when the engine break-in process is complete?"
> Would appreciate your thoughts and comments on the recommended break-in process and "when is the engine break-in complete?"
> Thanking you in advance for your inputs!
> --
> John
> 1976 GMC Eleganza II - "The Never Ending Story"
> Partial Restoration - a work in progress
> 455cc
> NW Ohio
> Member of the GMCMI, GMC Great Lakers Motor Home Club and Dixielanders
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild Break-in Procedure [message #283917 is a reply to message #283912] |
Tue, 04 August 2015 10:28 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I am going to take a different direction than J.R. did. I believe that the
question asked "How long until an engine is broken in?" The 2000 rpm
initial startup is for the express purpose of breaking in the camshaft
lobes and lifter bases. They are fairly well mated after 20 minutes, but
will not be completely broken in at this point in time. Cylinder bore to
piston skirts takes up to 10,000 miles to break in. Rings, phosphate coated
iron, 10 minutes. Crankshaft and main and rod bearings, not as long as
pistons but longer than rings. Thrust bearings on the crank for endplay,
about the same as the rest of the crankshaft stuff. Timing chain and
sprockets, distributor gears, oil pump gears, valve guides and valve stems,
rocker arm to valve interfaces as well as pivots, all take some time to
break in as well. This is all VERY DEPENDENT on how hard you use or abuse
the engine during initial running and driving of the coach. How often you
change out the oil and filter, weather extremes, and about a jillion other
variables. One school says to "Drive it like you stole it", and others may
say never run the engine at wide open throttle for the first 10,000 miles.
I kinda fall into the middle. Do not overheat or lug the engine, but
occasional short bursts of hard acceleration that do not exceed the rpm
that we cruise at will speed the break in process. Avoid wide open
throttle, high RPM sustained operation, like climbing steep grades in
second gear for mile after mile at full throttle. Back off on the rpms to
2500 or so and feather the throttle. As long as you are capable of gaining
rpms at this load, you are doing no harm. If you can not gain rpms by using
a wider throttle opening, you should be in a lower gear. Lugging an engine
that is not fully broken in will not be a good thing for longevity.
Opinions vary a great deal on this subject, and there is probably no
exactly correct answer. I have broken in dozen of engines in a variety of
service environments. This is what works for me.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403 120,000 miles and still pumps 160 psi compression in all
cylinders. Not quite as strong as it was newly broken in, but reliable as
an anvil. I ain't messin' with it.
On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 7:56 AM, John Wright wrote:
> John,
> You have gotten all sort of good suggestions here.
>
> Here is a list of things I would do.
>
> 1. Make sure that your engine is ready to run for at least 20 min on
> first start up without shutting down. This is for cam and lifter seating
> and should be run at 2500 rpm. Engine should also be prelubed before you
> first start.
>
> 2. Use only a dino based oil for break in and get some EOS break in oil.
>
> http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?partnumber=EOS
> or
>
> http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/RYP0/11487/N2556.oap?ck=Search_N2556_-1_-1&pt=N2556&ppt=C1941
>
> There are other out their, but these are good.
>
> 3. After the initial 20 minute run in, remove and replace oil filter and
> top off oil. Cut oil filter open and look and see what is inside. Don’t
> be surprised, you're going to find some junk in the filter, you just don’’t
> want to see large amounts of metal flake.
>
> 4. Run this break in oil for the next 600 to 1000 miles then change oil
> and again cut filter open and check again. You should use only a Dino
> based oil for the first 6000 to 10000 miles to allow for a good ring break
> in. I would change the oil every 3000 miles +/-. If after that you feel
> that you want to run a synthetic oil such as Mobil 1 or others then it
> would be ok to do that. As a personal choice I always run a ZDDP
> supplement at each oil change. Others will say why, but I say it doesn’t
> hurt. I also run the big filter magnet that Dick Paterson sold.
>
>
> http://rislone.com/product/3x-concentrated-engine-oil-supplement-with-zinc-treatment/
>
> I also sometimes use this additive also.
>
> http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/1018
>
> 5. What oil brand do I recommend, NONE! There are many good oils out
> there that will work just fine, both dino and synthetic. Blackstone
> Laboratories put out a great report in July 2014 and it is good reading.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/5244/Oil_Report_on_Brand.pdf
>
> It is a PDF file so you will have to click on it twice to open.
>
> Right now I run Mobil 1 15/50 in the stretch coach engine because that is
> what I was running when I got the coach. I can find that at Walmart and
> usually get the 5 qt jug at less than $25. The other coach runs Quaker
> State dino and I may stay with that.
>
> This is how I have done it and from recommendation from other engine
> builders.
>
> JR Wright
> GMC Great Laker MHC
> GMC Eastern States
> GMCGL Tech Editor
> GMCMHI
> 78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
> 1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
> Michigan
>
>> On Aug 4, 2015, at 12:46 AM, John Pryzbylek
> wrote:
>>
>> I'm in the process of having a 455 CID engine, purchased from a GMC
> owner, rebuilt. The machine shop is very close to completing the rebuild.
>> Searching the Forum and GMCMI, I found information on engine rebuilds,
> limited information regarding the break-in process, and virtually no
>> information on "how does one know when the engine break-in process is
> complete?"
>> Would appreciate your thoughts and comments on the recommended break-in
> process and "when is the engine break-in complete?"
>> Thanking you in advance for your inputs!
>> --
>> John
>> 1976 GMC Eleganza II - "The Never Ending Story"
>> Partial Restoration - a work in progress
>> 455cc
>> NW Ohio
>> Member of the GMCMI, GMC Great Lakers Motor Home Club and Dixielanders
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: Engine Rebuild Break-in Procedure [message #283922 is a reply to message #283889] |
Tue, 04 August 2015 11:03 |
Pryzl1
Messages: 100
Registered: November 2011
Location: Toledo, OH
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thanks for all your thoughts and comments, including those that sent me private messages. I certainly appreciate the knowledge base of the Forum members and the broad range of skill sets and experiences.
John
1976 GMC Eleganza II - "The Never Ending Story"
Partial Restoration - a work in progress
455cc
NW Ohio
Member of the GMCMI, GMC Great Lakers Motorhome Club, GMCES and Dixielanders
|
|
|
|
| Re: Engine Rebuild Break-in Procedure [message #283927 is a reply to message #283889] |
Tue, 04 August 2015 11:21 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
|
Senior Member |
|
|
You can tell when the rings take an initial seat if you have an oil temp gauge - You'll see a pronounced drop in temp when they seal up and blowby reduces. As to bearings, etc. listen to the gurus.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
|
|
|
| Re: Engine Rebuild Break-in Procedure [message #283931 is a reply to message #283889] |
Tue, 04 August 2015 11:32 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
John,
The 20 minute flat tappet break-in is real, even if a little excessive, it should not be ignored.
In dyno land where a phase one (prototype) engine can cost 250K$+, we may do a hard break-in but we do NOTHING with the engine cold. This does not mean to idle it to warm it up. (Nothing good happens to a idling engine.) It just means don't do cold hole-shots.
As to when break-in is complete?
It takes 8~10 hours, and if you are driving the vehicle more or less regularly, you will feel the difference about then. The idle will get smoother and the transition to power mode will feel stronger.
I hope this helps.
Matt
Pryzl1 wrote on Tue, 04 August 2015 00:46I'm in the process of having a 455 CID engine, purchased from a GMC owner, rebuilt. The machine shop is very close to completing the rebuild. Searching the Forum and GMCMI, I found information on engine rebuilds, limited information regarding the break-in process, and virtually no information on "how does one know when the engine break-in process is complete?"
Would appreciate your thoughts and comments on the recommended break-in process and "when is the engine break-in complete?"
Thanking you in advance for your inputs!
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Engine Rebuild Break-in Procedure [message #283985 is a reply to message #283889] |
Tue, 04 August 2015 22:54 |
mrgmc3
Messages: 210
Registered: September 2013
Location: W Washington
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
The 20 minute break-in at 2000 rpm is a necessity with a flat tappet cam. You can skip this step with roller lifters. I change the oil and filter at this 20 minute point. You'll be surprised how much metallic stuff will be in the oil. I think conventional oil is a good idea for the first 2-3000 miles. The jury is still out on break-in with synthetics. If your bores and Pistons are concentric, and you don't have chrome rings they'll be seated in 3000 miles. The GM break in procedure for test engines is 12 hours at steadily increasing speeds and loads. That is good enough for me.
Chris Geils - Twin Cities / W Wa
1978 26' Kingsley w/ very few mods; PD9040, aux trans cooler, one repaint in stock colors, R134a, Al rad, Alcoas, 54k mi
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild Break-in Procedure [message #283996 is a reply to message #283912] |
Wed, 05 August 2015 02:17 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
G'day,
Considering the discussion we have been having regarding the oil cooler adapter, oil cooler lines, and oil cooler causing a pressure
differential of greater than 5.3 to 6.3 psi across the external lubrication system and causing the bypass valve in the oil filter
base to open perhaps it would be a good idea for the 20 minute break in run remove the oil cooler adapter, plug the by pass valve
poppet, and screw the oil filter directly to the oil filter base?
Wow, that was a mouthful!
Waaaadaaaayaaaahh reckon?
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild Break-in Procedure [message #284008 is a reply to message #283996] |
Wed, 05 August 2015 08:22 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Actually Rob that is not a bad idea. Hitch up the entire oil cooling system after the 20+ minute run in. The heat load should be not anywhere close to what it would be going down the road under load.
JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMCMHI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
> On Aug 5, 2015, at 3:17 AM, Robert Mueller wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> Considering the discussion we have been having regarding the oil cooler adapter, oil cooler lines, and oil cooler causing a pressure
> differential of greater than 5.3 to 6.3 psi across the external lubrication system and causing the bypass valve in the oil filter
> base to open perhaps it would be a good idea for the 20 minute break in run remove the oil cooler adapter, plug the by pass valve
> poppet, and screw the oil filter directly to the oil filter base?
>
> Wow, that was a mouthful!
>
> Waaaadaaaayaaaahh reckon?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild Break-in Procedure [message #284072 is a reply to message #284008] |
Wed, 05 August 2015 19:50 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
JR,
Thanks!
I came up with the idea based on emails to the GMCnet stating that several owners weren't even running an oil cooler at all.
Plugging the bypass shouldn't be too difficult, just use a silicone cork.
It might be a good idea to warm the oil in the pan by directing an electric heater at it for awhile ESPECIALLY if it's the middle of
January in Michigan!
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: John Wright
Actually Rob that is not a bad idea. Hitch up the entire oil cooling system after the 20+ minute run in. The heat load should be
not anywhere close to what it would be going down the road under load.
JR
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Sun Sep 29 23:36:24 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01245 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
