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| New Genset [message #283051] |
Fri, 24 July 2015 17:50  |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
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Kudos to Ken Henderson for showing it can be done. So I decided I would also. The 'before' pictures are on the photosite in one of my albums.
For anyone interested in the Generac, note that it has only 270 hours on the Hobbes clock. I'm entertaining offers.
A look at the new genset shows several interesting things. The yanker and oil check/fill will face to the door of the compartment. The bulky items - muffler, air box, and output panel are all removable and relocatable. It looks as if the two channels the machine is shock mounted on can be cut from the rest of the frame and fitted to the bay as mounts. The battery cable will simply be hooked to the 12 volt house cable already in the bay. Once the relocatable components are off the set, it's fairly low in profile, and not quite as long as the width of the opening. A bit of the rear bottom of the compartment past the door opening may have to be removed to allow some room on the left side of the set, which is the air intake and yanker handle.
A pair of snips, a sack of sheet metal screws, and a roll of aluminum flashing and I can make up the necessary air baffles. I propose to do it a la VW Bug, cool air above the baffles, hot air below. As Ken did, I'll run the blast past the exhaust pipe to kind of keep it cool.
Everything one needs to have access to is on the same side, there's no need to slide mount it... and to do so would be a fairly complex undertaking if it even could be done at all.
I'm still mulling over the electric hookup. I'm currently leaning towards removing the water heater from the current box by removing the selector switch and putting the heater and second A/c (not yet acquired) on the second output leg. I'll have to add a 50 amp cable, and split the two legs to the breaker boxes. If I need to, I can balance the load by moving stuff between the two sets of breakers.
Excelsior!
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
[Updated on: Fri, 24 July 2015 17:51] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: New Genset [message #283071 is a reply to message #283051] |
Fri, 24 July 2015 21:38  |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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which album is yours?
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: New Genset [message #283091 is a reply to message #283051] |
Sat, 25 July 2015 07:57 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I believe the piece of square perforated stock in the 'mount detail' was added to hold the existing genset. It's probably going to be relocated and the tin moved to the rear a bit.
Album is: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6827-new-genset.html
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: New Genset [message #283096 is a reply to message #283051] |
Sat, 25 July 2015 09:28 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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I thought those last non inverter Generac's were supposed to be pretty good units?
That's the belt drive one, right? Is it just the variable speed feature you have issues with? There is probably a way to eliminate that feature in the control board instead of putting a contractor unit in it's place...
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: New Genset [message #283098 is a reply to message #283051] |
Sat, 25 July 2015 10:03 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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No, this one is direct drive. The control boards - there are several - are potted. There are multiple windings which are switched to the output at varying phase angles at various engine speeds such that the result falls between 55 and 65 Hz. There's substantially more to it than meets the eye. Generac had discontinued it, and has also I believe discontinued support.
I'm fairly conversant with using SCRs to switch AC at various angles and very high power, this thing is a junior version thereof which might be considered to have maybe 5 or 6 phases doing much the same thing. As long as the components work and don't drift in value, the systems work just fine. If/when they do, you can get very strange results, none of which are beneficial to the controller itself, the current source, or the load.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: New Genset [message #283110 is a reply to message #283051] |
Sat, 25 July 2015 12:15 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Interesting info from the Generac site. Patent plate on the NP 36 I'm removing says Model 00802-2. Site says no such.
Serial number from the patent plate 8041889. Site says 10KW portable.
I sent a service request, it will be interesting to see what they have to say about this.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: New Genset [message #283224 is a reply to message #283051] |
Sun, 26 July 2015 18:49 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Meantime, I have removed the Generac and its mounts. Total mod to the coach was four bolt holes in the two crossmenmbers which run under the bay. With them mounts and tinwork that was added removed, there's plenty of room. The bay is lined with fibreglas glued to the walls and roof. I propose to remove it and replace it with the same foil backed foam board that's lining the engine compartment. Loose fibreglas can easily get sucked into the fan on the genset. I'll post pics of the bay, the stuff removed, and the Generac tomorrow, it's quite compact. Construction stops for the rest of the week, I've a show in Salem VA starting Wednesday. Anybody wants the Generac, PM me about it. It goes on Ebay and craigslist when I return 1 Aig.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] New Genset [message #283472 is a reply to message #283051] |
Wed, 29 July 2015 15:42 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Johnny,
Just in case I made changes which might affect your installation, I just
reviewed my album. There were indeed some changes, but nothing important
until I got to the schematic. There are some corrections needed:
1. The fuel pump is no longer powered except when the starter is active
and there is no "Choke" (the electric fuel pump acts as the choke by
"flooding" the engine.
2. I never got around to installing the "Cooling Needed" switch -- the
electric fan just run while the engine's running.
3. I never got around to installing the "Overheat" switch. That's just
procrastination; I should still have it around here somewhere. Thus far
I've had no indication that it's needed to protect the engine, but it
should be there for safety.
4. I'll have to check -- I don't know whether I left the wiring to the Run
Time Meter or not when I moved the fuel pump to the start circuit.
5. It's not clear from the schematic, but the 12VDC Power Supply is
nothing but a wall wart plugged into a duplex outlet on the generator and
secured there. What can I say? It was easy and it's still working after
5-1/2 years
Ken
On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 6:50 PM, Johnny Bridges wrote:
> Kudos to Ken Henderson for showing it can be done. So I decided I would
> also.
> ...
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: New Genset [message #283474 is a reply to message #283051] |
Wed, 29 July 2015 15:59 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Thanks. I'd seen the note on the pulse pump. The Generac ran the fan all the time, it's a constant duty, I'm just gonna run it off the genset 12V. Genset running, fan running. I'm minded to set one of these spiffly little timers I got to run the electric clicker for maybe five seconds or ten on start. I gotta get the dam' thing in before I worry too much about the install finishing. An electric oil temp from the Heathen Chinee is sixteen bux, and I think I got a spare. Worst come to worst, I'll fit it in the dipstick. Meantimes, I'm diekering for another A'c off a friend.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: New Genset [message #283475 is a reply to message #283051] |
Wed, 29 July 2015 16:07 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Got a reply from Generac, "Not invented here, go see the distributors (several listed) out of production, no more RV systems, good luck."
Un - F them.
I did due diligence on a plant the other day, and told my client that we always recommend replacing Generacs with something else as three of my former fulltime employers did. When your inventory doesn't keep, and the power doesn't appear, they're damn expensive. As long as they're exercised weekly with load and serviced by the book, I have never in 55 odd years had a Cat, Cummins, or Federal genset fail to take load in a commercial outage. Never had a Kohler either, but my experience with them is limited to a pair with Dear John engines on them. I will note, service and testing ain't cheap up front, but compared to an icy Thursday and Friday outage in Atlanta, you could buy the set new and have change.
As to how the predator does, we're gonna see.
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: New Genset [message #284578 is a reply to message #283051] |
Tue, 11 August 2015 13:26 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I have disassembled the genset from its 'contractor' frame and tank, getting ready to start the install. Wires out of the alternator are a pair of brown which go through a 5A fuse into a potted something. I'm gonna figure it's the exciter winding regulator. Not gonna melt the potting off to see. Two small grey wires which go to a bridge, then to the 12V socket through an 8 amp breaker. Self explanatory. Since it's (obviously) limited to 8 A, we'll have a 12V relay for the compartment fan. One large red, one large black, two large whites. Obviously a pair of 120 windings, out of phase. The two power windings confirmed by the way the 240 outlet was wired. A green with yellow trace, safety ground. A DP switch which makes for run and has a spring loaded start position to energize the self-commencer. This is going to take some figureing to hook up the remote in the coach... but it's doable. Little 12v low oil lamp. I'll relay that one and put a Sonalert<tm> in the coach.
One thing I notice, external to the alternator, the commons (White) were connected to the ground post along with the safety (Green/yellow trace). I take this to mean the panel was/is considered the totality of the system. At any rate, they will stay separate in the coach.
I'm pleased with the quality of construction of the heathen chinee genset. The components themselves are as you'd expect from that source... but the connections were well made up, good crimps, Ty-Raps<tm> every place. Lots of captive washer nuts. They didn't want it to shake itself apart in the warranty period.
I got the impression during testing, much of the noise it makes came from the yanker system, rattling. I suspect the one-way pawls in the setup are very loose and rattle. At any rate, at some point I'll pull the cover off that end and remove the manual system and see if it runs a bit quieter.
If I get attacked by enthusiasm I'll add a solenoid to the choke. If I don't, I'll walk around and set it when it's cold.
Keep watching this space. Pictures will go on the photo site.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
[Updated on: Tue, 11 August 2015 18:35] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: New Genset [message #284598 is a reply to message #283051] |
Tue, 11 August 2015 18:26 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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The engine, lightly loaded, doesn't make much noise. It's got a relatively big muffler. I'm gonna have to have a [pipe made up, my man at the custom muffler shop can bend up about anything. Muffler has a good mount system, it will go under the coach in the back. I'll stick a flex section in the pipe someplace.
I cut the mount bars out of the frame this evening. They will need a bit of modifying, the shock mounts need to migrate a few inches. And, while I'm not crazy about the shock mounts - they are bonded, not through bolted - I see a lot of contractors using sets with these and haven't seen a busted one yet. No way I'm gonna solid bolt it in, it would hsake the coach to pieces.
The electric fan may have to move. I have to fit the set to see if it's going to clear the starter. If it doesn't, I'll migrate it to the rear bottom of the bay and add some baffling to direct incoming air to the inlet fan on the set.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: New Genset [message #284600 is a reply to message #283051] |
Tue, 11 August 2015 18:36 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Oh, uh, what's a 'head winding'?
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: New Genset [message #284697 is a reply to message #283051] |
Wed, 12 August 2015 13:31 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Coupon catalog today, the 7KW Predator - with electric self commencer - is down to 550. Ten bux less than I gave for mine. If you can stand a yanker cranker, 290 takes it in a 4KW version. The casting on the front of the smaller engine has a pad for the starter, I don't know how much cutting and drilling would be necessary to add an electric starter.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
[Updated on: Wed, 12 August 2015 13:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: New Genset [message #284734 is a reply to message #283051] |
Wed, 12 August 2015 21:59 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I don't think it will get beat around any more than it does in the back of a roofer or framing carpenter's truck. Actually probably less, we don't run our coaches on construction sites very often. If it dies though, it will be quite apparent when you go to check the oil.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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