Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Second choice for rear brake shoes.
| Second choice for rear brake shoes. [message #283017] |
Fri, 24 July 2015 09:45  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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With the hit we just took, I am looking for the next best to JimKs Carbon Metallic rear brakes.
Does anybody have a part number for second best?
I had rear brake bearing service on my winter 2016 list. But with the recent events, I think I would like to pull it ahead before departing for Pueblo/Rapid City.
The bearings and seals are in my stock, so I am good there.
We came home without the reaction arm on one brake. That has to get fixed and fast as braking is Strange. (But it beat waiting in North Little Rock.)
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Second choice for rear brake shoes. [message #283025 is a reply to message #283017] |
Fri, 24 July 2015 10:58  |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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That was, perhaps the lead wheel? My coach went to several dog shows, plus the Patterson rally without the arm on the right rear. On advice, I blocked off that wheel's brakes and never missed them. After correcting the piece of stupidity which led to no arm on that wheel, it stops only marginally better - but waaaaay better than without the kit which I suspect helps the intermediate as much as the rear. I got the shoes with the kit. I have a set of riveted shoes with more than half life in them, if you want them contact me off list. I don't think I tossed them yet.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Second choice for rear brake shoes. [message #283030 is a reply to message #283017] |
Fri, 24 July 2015 11:21 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Matt Colie wrote on Fri, 24 July 2015 08:45With the hit we just took, I am looking for the next best to JimKs Carbon Metallic rear brakes.
Does anybody have a part number for second best?
I had rear brake bearing service on my winter 2016 list. But with the recent events, I think I would like to pull it ahead before departing for Pueblo/Rapid City.
The bearings and seals are in my stock, so I am good there.
We came home without the reaction arm on one brake. That has to get fixed and fast as braking is Strange. (But it beat waiting in North Little Rock.)
Matt
Matt--I would find out what source Jim B uses since they are riveted. Riveted linings are getting more difficult to find but we have found the performance to be better. The lining compound is usually different between riveted and bonded linings--not just the fact that they use rivets instead of glue.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Second choice for rear brake shoes. [message #283049 is a reply to message #283017] |
Fri, 24 July 2015 17:00 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Matt, read here, well scroll down and look at the pics... They changed backing plates and brake shoes in 76 and the 73-75 had a recall. So you need to know which style shoe you have. Low hole or hi hole. I googled tab lock washers and found a couple of places offering heavy duty for bout $12 each.
http://www.gmcmi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/GMCMH_Parking_Brake_Improvements1r5spring2011webr1.pdf
Matt Colie wrote on Fri, 24 July 2015 10:45With the hit we just took, I am looking for the next best to JimKs Carbon Metallic rear brakes.
Does anybody have a part number for second best?
I had rear brake bearing service on my winter 2016 list. But with the recent events, I think I would like to pull it ahead before departing for Pueblo/Rapid City.
The bearings and seals are in my stock, so I am good there.
We came home without the reaction arm on one brake. That has to get fixed and fast as braking is Strange. (But it beat waiting in North Little Rock.)
Matt
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Second choice for rear brake shoes. [message #283053 is a reply to message #283017] |
Fri, 24 July 2015 18:39 |
jhb1
Messages: 303
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Wagner 462R most auto parts should be able to get them
Matt Colie wrote on Fri, 24 July 2015 10:45With the hit we just took, I am looking for the next best to JimKs Carbon Metallic rear brakes.
Does anybody have a part number for second best?
I had rear brake bearing service on my winter 2016 list. But with the recent events, I think I would like to pull it ahead before departing for Pueblo/Rapid City.
The bearings and seals are in my stock, so I am good there.
We came home without the reaction arm on one brake. That has to get fixed and fast as braking is Strange. (But it beat waiting in North Little Rock.)
Matt
John H. Bell
77 Royale; QuadBag,Manny OneTon,Honda EV4010, FITech
Montreal Qc.
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| Re: Second choice for rear brake shoes. [message #283054 is a reply to message #283049] |
Fri, 24 July 2015 18:42 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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C Boyd wrote on Fri, 24 July 2015 17:00Matt, read here, well scroll down and look at the pics... They changed backing plates and brake shoes in 76 and the 73-75 had a recall. So you need to know which style shoe you have. Low hole or hi hole. I googled tab lock washers and found a couple of places offering heavy duty for bout $12 each.
http://www.gmcmi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/GMCMH_Parking_Brake_Improvements1r5spring2011webr1.pdf Tom Hampton's wider shoe kit comes on the backing plate, and there is a core charge on the backing plate. I am sort of wondering if he reverses the GM recall that converted from the #462 shoe set back to the #272 shoe set, and uses the front shoes which are 3/4" wider, and moves the hole in the backing plate for the parking brake cable.
I was looking on Napa online and the drums for 1969 Pontiac Bonneville are 2-3/4" wide in the front and 2" wide on the rear. The drum is 11" in diameter. They sell 2.13" wide shoes for the 1973 Pontiac Bonneville for 11" drums and 12" drums.
[Updated on: Fri, 24 July 2015 18:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Second choice for rear brake shoes. [message #283055 is a reply to message #283049] |
Fri, 24 July 2015 19:04 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Chuck,
Thanks,
I am hoping I did the correct thing.
It seems that there are two marginally different part numbers for replacement rear brake shoes. Well, three actually.
The original is the 272 number. That has some interference problem and some apparent assembly difficulty. It was replaced in the aftermarket by a 2272 part. This part fixes most of that and is interchangeable.
The 76 and later use a part 462 that is very difficult to differentiate from the 272, but the change has to do with the parking brake bar.
I have either scored real big or made a interesting mistake. I ordered 4 sets of the 2272DR shoes from Rock Auto. The R on the end means riveted.
Why did I order four?? You ask?? Two should be plenty...
Because they were 6$ a set and the additional shipping was only 3$. So, I have spares. (If I got the correct parts.)
If I didn't RA is also blowing out one of the 462DR numbers.
After what this last incident cost me, I just can't see not having parts.
Did you know that I found (actually Dennis Sexton pointed me) the only guy and place probably in all of Arkansas that had any idea what needed to be done and what parts were needed and HAD a parts coach to take them from....
It is had to feel lucky when a whole wheel and brake drum are AWOL.
Matt
C Boyd wrote on Fri, 24 July 2015 18:00Matt, read here, well scroll down and look at the pics... They changed backing plates and brake shoes in 76 and the 73-75 had a recall. So you need to know which style shoe you have. Low hole or hi hole. I googled tab lock washers and found a couple of places offering heavy duty for bout $12 each.
http://www.gmcmi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/GMCMH_Parking_Brake_Improvements1r5spring2011webr1.pdf
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Second choice for rear brake shoes. [message #283174 is a reply to message #283055] |
Sun, 26 July 2015 05:44 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Matt,
I direct your attention to:
http://www.bdub.net/manuals/74-C-07_spindle_recall.pdf
Note that Brake Asm L.H (P/N 2623488) and Brake Asm RH (P/N 2623489) were in the kit.
Albert Branscombe's presentation cited by Chuck Boyd:
http://www.gmcmi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/GMCMH_Parking_Brake_Improvements1r5spring2011webr1.pdf
As I understand it from Albert's presentation the brake assemblies noted above used the 462 shoe and have the correct parking brake
bar.
Since 74-C-07 was a safety recall (and free) one would think that anyone that owned a GMC manufactured prior to May 1974 would bring
it in to be performed.
I suspect you got the three different part numbers for the brake shoes out of the GMCMI Parts Interchange Index. I recently sent Kim
Weeks the following email:
Kim,
The GMCMI Parts Interchange Index lists the 272 family of brake shoes and from what I've learned I believe it should be revised as
follows:
************************************************************************************************************************************
*************
Rear, Shoes (73-75 & early 76)
Recall / Service Bulletin 74-C-07 replaced both the left and right brake assemblies. The replacement assemblies used the 462 family
of shoes. If you have a coach in the age range specified above you will need to determine if that service bulletin has been applied.
Contact one of the GMC Parts, Service, and Repair Facilities listed in this document for assistance.
************************************************************************************************************************************
*************
The part numbers listed in the PII could be listed under the information above.
Bottom Line: PLEASE review the information I have provided above to verify that I am correct. This is an important issue -
OBVIOUSLY!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Colie
Chuck,
Thanks,
I am hoping I did the correct thing.
It seems that there are two marginally different part numbers for replacement rear brake shoes. Well, three actually.
The original is the 272 number. That has some interference problem and some apparent assembly difficulty. It was replaced in the
aftermarket by a 2272 part. This part fixes most of that and is interchangeable.
The 76 and later use a part 462 that is very difficult to differentiate from the 272, but the change has to do with the parking
brake bar.
I have either scored real big or made a interesting mistake. I ordered 4 sets of the 2272DR shoes from Rock Auto. The R on the end
means riveted.
Why did I order four?? You ask?? Two should be plenty...
Because they were 6$ a set and the additional shipping was only 3$. So, I have spares. (If I got the correct parts.)
If I didn't RA is also blowing out one of the 462DR numbers.
After what this last incident cost me, I just can't see not having parts.
Did you know that I found (actually Dennis Sexton pointed me) the only guy and place probably in all of Arkansas that had any idea
what needed to be done and what parts were needed and HAD a parts coach to take them from....
It is had to feel lucky when a whole wheel and brake drum are AWOL.
Matt
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Second choice for rear brake shoes. [message #283189 is a reply to message #283055] |
Sun, 26 July 2015 09:46 |
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Loffen
Messages: 1087
Registered: August 2013
Location: Norway
Karma: 1
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Send them back, as I said you should use the 462 series shoe like Rob said above, I was the one that had the discussion with Rob that in the end turned out to the revision in the interchange catalog.
The change has to do with the alignment of the parking brake bar, leveler and shoe and it is important that those parts work together, it will not be correct with a 272 series shoe on 99% or more of the coaches.
Read page 21 to 27 in the link C. Boyd provided http://www.gmcmi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/GMCMH_Parking_Brake_Improvements1r5spring2011webr1.pdf
Matt Colie wrote on Sat, 25 July 2015 02:04Chuck,
Thanks,
I am hoping I did the correct thing.
It seems that there are two marginally different part numbers for replacement rear brake shoes. Well, three actually.
The original is the 272 number. That has some interference problem and some apparent assembly difficulty. It was replaced in the aftermarket by a 2272 part. This part fixes most of that and is interchangeable.
The 76 and later use a part 462 that is very difficult to differentiate from the 272, but the change has to do with the parking brake bar.
I have either scored real big or made a interesting mistake. I ordered 4 sets of the 2272DR shoes from Rock Auto. The R on the end means riveted.
Why did I order four?? You ask?? Two should be plenty...
Because they were 6$ a set and the additional shipping was only 3$. So, I have spares. (If I got the correct parts.)
If I didn't RA is also blowing out one of the 462DR numbers.
After what this last incident cost me, I just can't see not having parts.
Did you know that I found (actually Dennis Sexton pointed me) the only guy and place probably in all of Arkansas that had any idea what needed to be done and what parts were needed and HAD a parts coach to take them from....
It is had to feel lucky when a whole wheel and brake drum are AWOL.
Matt
C Boyd wrote on Fri, 24 July 2015 18:00Matt, read here, well scroll down and look at the pics... They changed backing plates and brake shoes in 76 and the 73-75 had a recall. So you need to know which style shoe you have. Low hole or hi hole. I googled tab lock washers and found a couple of places offering heavy duty for bout $12 each.
http://www.gmcmi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/GMCMH_Parking_Brake_Improvements1r5spring2011webr1.pdf
1973 23' # 1848 Sky Blue Glacier called Baby Blue and a 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Green,
And sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel
in Norway
[Updated on: Sun, 26 July 2015 09:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Second choice for rear brake shoes. [message #283209 is a reply to message #283189] |
Sun, 26 July 2015 14:26 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Espen,
Sorry for not mentioning your input to my education re this subject.
I only have one question; wouldn't 272 shoes fit properly if Service / Recall Bulletin 74-C-07 had NOT been performed?
Come to think of it Matt will discover whether they fit correctly or not the INSTANT he tries to install the 272's. He can compare
his results to the presentation that Albert Branscombe made.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: Espen Heitmann
Send them back, as I said you should use the 462 series shoe like Rob said above, I was the one that had the discussion with Rob
that in the end turned out to the revision in the interchange catalog.
The change has to do with the alignment of the parking brake bar, leveler and shoe and it is important that those parts work
together, it will not be correct with a 272 series shoe on 99% or more of the coaches.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Second choice for rear brake shoes. [message #283212 is a reply to message #283189] |
Sun, 26 July 2015 14:38 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Loffen,
As the cost of the parts is less than the shipping, sending them back is kind of a lost cause. What I have ordered are not 272, but 2272 and Wagner is very clear that this is an improved number. As I did Aftermarket for lots of year and this crosses to both Pontiac and 76 Cadillac, I am going to wait until Wednesday to decide what I will do.
Aftermarket has a lot of latitude that OE does not. If the the correction was backward compatible, and it looks like it is, then I bet what I have will fit just fine.
Rob is also right in that the parts cross listing should be revised.
Matt
Loffen wrote on Sun, 26 July 2015 10:46Send them back, as I said you should use the 462 series shoe like Rob said above, I was the one that had the discussion with Rob that in the end turned out to the revision in the interchange catalog.
The change has to do with the alignment of the parking brake bar, leveler and shoe and it is important that those parts work together, it will not be correct with a 272 series shoe on 99% or more of the coaches.
Read page 21 to 27 in the link C. Boyd provided http://www.gmcmi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/GMCMH_Parking_Brake_Improvements1r5spring2011webr1.pdf
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Second choice for rear brake shoes. [message #283227 is a reply to message #283212] |
Sun, 26 July 2015 19:06 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Matt,
I forgot to post the following when Espen and I were discussing these brake shoes:
************************************************************************************************************************************
From: robmueller@iinet.net.au [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 2:11 PM
To: Corporate Communications
Subject: [en-US] [Original Equipment] [Asia Pacific] [General Inquiry] [Technical Services]
First Name: Robert
Last Name: Mueller
Company:
Title:
Department:
Address: 62 Regent Street
City: Paddington
State/Province: NSW
Zip/Postal Code: 2021
Country: Australia [AU]
Phone: 9331-1964
E-Mail Address: robmueller@iinet.net.au
Region: Asia Pacific
Description:
Gentlemen, I have a 1975 GMC Motorhome and the rear brake shoes specified are Wagner P/N 272DR which I have been advised are
obsolete. According to the information I have they have been replaced by part numbers 2272DR or PAB272D. Can you please advise if
this is correct and what the differences are between the 272DR, the 2272DR; and PAB272D. Thank you.
************************************************************************************************************************************
From: Doyle, Tony [mailto:Tony.Doyle@federalmogul.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 3:01 PM
To: robmueller@iinet.net.au
Subject: RE: [en-US] [Original Equipment] [Asia Pacific] [General Inquiry] [Technical Services]
Robert,
Good afternoon to you
Your inquiry has been passed through to our Australian office of Federal-Mogul Motorparts to assist.
The only current data on the three Wagner brake shoes you mention is p/n PAB272D, I have no specific information re 272DR, or 2272DR
in terms of supersession - the 272 number is the Friction Manufacturer Industry standard basic number for the shoe shape and size-
WAGNER PAB272D
GM 5469101
RAYBESTOS 272 PG
The p/n # PAB272D is designated as a Wagner TQ program brake shoe with fitment - Passenger car applications Checker Marathon (R)
70-69; Pontiac Bonneville (R) 70-67; Catalina (R) 70-67; Executive (R) 70-67; Grand Prix (R) 68-67 - No mention of GMC applications
- the shoe size is 11"x 2"
Would you be able to confirm the specific GMC chassis model type I can research further.
For the Australian market for Federal-Mogul products - we do have a specialist distributor of early USA vehicle applications -
Detroit Autoparts in Ballarat - ph (03) 5339 6788, I would believe can assist
Best Regards
Tony Doyle
Technical Services Manager
Mobile: +61(0) 411 744 049
Office: +61(0) 2 8831 2917
Fax: +61 (0) 2 8831 2932
Email: tony.doyle@federalmogul.com
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Second choice for rear brake shoes. [message #283239 is a reply to message #283223] |
Sun, 26 July 2015 21:53 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Espen and Rob,
As soon as I can get parts and shoes close together, I will publish pictures.
Matt
Loffen wrote on Sun, 26 July 2015 19:45Matt Colie wrote on Sun, 26 July 2015 21:38Loffen,
I bet what I have will fit just fine.
Matt
Okey I will take you up on that bet, Let's say a beer.
If you look closely at the shoe you will have a hole where the hand brake leveler is mounted to the shoe. close to it you will have a small notch in the metal towards the brake pad, on the 2272 the hole for the arm is above that notch, on the 462 the hole for the arm is just under that notch and that is the difference between them.
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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