Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Synthetic oil Just some thought's
| Re: [GMCnet] Synthetic oil Just some thought's [message #282389 is a reply to message #282221] |
Sat, 18 July 2015 10:23   |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Bob,
I agree with you that changing oil frequently is more important than
whether it's dino or synthetic -- getting that crud out is the most
important. What I'm anxiously awaiting, however, is the results of the
bypass experiments. I have trouble believing that most manufacturers
recommend filter changes only every other oil change if the filters become
clogged as quickly as some suppose. That's not to say I agree with the
"every other oil change" recommendation -- I never have and always change
the filter when I change the oil. But, until this discussion, I've also
been of the opinion (though not the practice) that it's more important to
chang the filter than the oil -- for a while. Especially in an engine that
uses 1 qt. per 1000 miles or more.
I do like Bob H's recommendation of the Delo 15W40 if they do indeed
include Moly and more ZDDP. I'll have to check into that before switching
from Rotella T.
Ken H.
On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 2:11 AM, Bob Dunahugh wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> From: yenko108@hotmail.com
> To: robmueller@iinet.net.au
> Subject: RE: Synthetic oil
> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 23:27:39 -0500
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> I'm not saying here that any oil type is good, or bad. All engine
> oils are the best they've ever been now days. And you need to match the
> oil to the service duty it's expected to handle. There are lots of
> angles to the
> story of oils. What we have now is old tech engines in a new tech world.
> And
> what's below should be considered fruit for thought. New tech products
> aren't
> always the best for our old tech engines. All I ask is to think about what
> you're doing. We need to do things that put us in our own comfort zone. Bob
> Dunahugh
>
> They say that syn's take heat better. That is correct. Gas engines have
> been using mineral base oils for over 100 year. And now, oils are better
> than
> they ever have been. And have performed well over all these years. If you
> had
> gas engines operating at 300 degrees. OK. Synthetic oils would be the
> oil of choice. But our engines don't. We're in the 200 area. I just
> don't see syn oils as
> fixing a problem that doesn't exist for us. I believe our old oils are
> good to
> 290 degrees. That's well above where we'll ever go. If we hit 250 degrees,
> our
> engines are gone no matter the oil. I don't know syn oil limits. Let's say
> 1000
> degrees. If that range was raised to 1500 degrees. Does that mean that it's
> even better at 1500. Still doesn't make it any better for us when we
> operate in
> the 220 range max.
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> SYN's can be used
> for more miles. But that doesn't mean that the filter's life is extended.
> It's
> really simple. The longer any oil is in use in any engine. The more the
> oil filter
> gets restricted by contamination. And that means that the more oil is
> unfiltered due to the oil
> filter bypass valve. By 3000 miles. I'll bet that our oil filter bypass
> valve
> has alot more oil going thrue it then the filter. With our old
> tech engines. They put alot of contaminants in the oil that the filter
> can't
> take out. The oil, and filter needs to be changed at 3000 miles. I use
> diesel
> oils in everything I have. SM rated oil is to be used in engines with
> SPARK
> ignition systems only. CJ rated oils are for COMPRESSION ignition engines.
> (
> Diesel ). Some oils are rated SM/CJ. These oils can be used in both. Diesel
> oils are made to handle more heat, and contaminants then oils rated for
> spark ignition. ( gas ) SYN oils are great in
> modern engines. As those engines are much cleaner do in part because of EPA
> regulations. Thus contaminate the oil less. In our 08 Chevy Uplander. At
> 1000
> miles. The oil is very clean at that mileage. At 1000 miles in the GMC.
> It's
> black. And the best way to get that contamination out is to simply drain
> it.
> Draining will get 99% of the contamination out of the crankcase. Not just
> what ever,
> the filter may get. My daughter is a doctor. She can afford to get rid
> of her
> 98 Chevy Astro. She bought it new. She just loves that van. It's at 339,000
> miles. Uses just under 1 qt for 3000 miles. I have a 96 Astro that's at
> 294,000. Same story. Can anyone say that syn oils could top that service.
> I've
> seen 3 GMC's that have syn oils in them. And everyone of them have more oil
> mist under them then my GMC with 154,000 miles. If you want a gas engine to
> last. Change the oil ( whatever it is ) every 3000 miles to really get the
> junk
> out.
>
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>
>
> I know there are people that build engines that recommend
> syn oils. That's fine. I'm not saying they're wrong at all. And I don't
> know
> the bases of what their recommendations are. Other than what I've mentioned
> above. Just at lease change the filter every 3000 miles. But if you're
> going to
> do that. Why not drain the rest of the contamination out will your under
> there
> anyway. Oils cheep.Engines aren't. Most of the engines that I build are run
> hotter, and harder than our GMC's. And the throttle is wide open most of
> the time at extreme RPM's. That's alot more load than any GMC will ever
> see. As
> for recommendations for oil. I don't have any. I just mention what's
> above. I'm more interested in the oil filter change. As for our old tech
> stock engines. I recommend
> what GM recommends on change intervals. After all. Their the ones that
> designed the engine. I'm not big
> on someone's opinion that aren't based on basic facts. They're not the one
> that's going to paying for the next
> rebuild. You are.
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> In short. Think about it. Does this really make some
> sense? Bob Dunahugh
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Synthetic oil Just some thought's [message #282416 is a reply to message #282389] |
Sat, 18 July 2015 20:07 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
I agree with your first paragraph below.
I HEARTILY agree with the second paragraph!
I remembered that John Sharpe runs Chevron Delo so I called him to see which one. He advised he runs Chevron Delo 400 which has even
higher ZDDP levels, than Chevron Delo 400LE BUT it's hard to find!
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Henderson
Bob,
I agree with you that changing oil frequently is more important than whether it's dino or synthetic -- getting that crud out is the
most important. What I'm anxiously awaiting, however, is the results of the bypass experiments. I have trouble believing that most
manufacturers recommend filter changes only every other oil change if the filters become clogged as quickly as some suppose. That's
not to say I agree with the "every other oil change" recommendation -- I never have and always change the filter when I change the
oil. But, until this discussion, I've also been of the opinion (though not the practice) that it's more important to change the
filter than the oil -- for a while. Especially in an engine that uses 1 qt. per 1000 miles or more.
I DO LIKE BOB H'S RECOMMENDATION OF THE DELO 15W40 IF THEY DO INDEED INCLUDE MOLY AND MORE ZDDP. I'LL HAVE TO CHECK INTO THAT
BEFORE SWITCHING FROM ROTELLA T.
Ken H.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Synthetic oil Just some thought's [message #282431 is a reply to message #282371] |
Sun, 19 July 2015 00:00 |
Arthur Mansfield
Messages: 290
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I have no idea what you said other than you do not believe moly works as advertised. So why use it at all.
I use it because I tested it and have seen it lubricates and reduces wear. The Moly coat works into the surface. When some used it early on in engines it plugged up oil passages in some engines and caused failures.
I use it because it will lub the cam and reduce the wear on the cam better than ZDDP. It cost more than ZDDP but I think it is worth the extra cost.
Art
On Jul 18, 2015, at 12:06 AM, Robert Mueller wrote:
> Art,
>
> Comments below in CAPS, I'm not SHOUTING.
>
> Plus it's a bit of a "tongue in cheek" response so SMILE when you read it! ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 1104agm
>
> Why do you use ZDDP and Liqui Moly.
>
> HERE'S A LINK TO THE PRODUCTS:
>
> http://www.liqui-moly.com/liquimoly/web.nsf/id/pa_eng_home.html
>
> https://www.sfrcorp.com/
>
> 1) I'M DUMB ENOUGH TO BELIEVE THEIR MARKETING BS
> 2) I HAVE MORE MONEY THAN SENSE
> 3) THEY WON'T HURT
> 4) THEY MIGHT HELP
>
> SELECT ANY ONE OR MULTIPLES OF THE ABOVE.
>
> By the way Moly is not a liquid but a solid lub.
>
> YEP, SEE ITEM 1) ABOVE
>
> Moly works into the surface and provides lubrication when starting after sitting for a while.
>
> YEP, THAT'S WHAT ITEM 1) ABOVE SAYS
>
> One needs to be sure the moly used is small enough to not plug the oil passages.
>
> YEP, I TRUST LIQUI-MOLY NOT TO SELL A PRODUCT THAT WOULD DO THAT AFTER ALL IT IS A GERMAN COMPANY NOT CHINESE!
>
> The 1st time I saw the use of moly was in a 1955 Plymouth. It was added for 2 oil changes once the motor was brok in. At 100000
> miles the engine was just as quit as it was new. I use 20 50 oil and add moly. Do not use Moly until the motor is broke in.
>
> YEP, THAT'S WHAT ITEM 1) ABOVE SAYS
>
> Art
>
>
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Synthetic oil Just some thought's [message #282432 is a reply to message #282416] |
Sun, 19 July 2015 00:38 |
Arthur Mansfield
Messages: 290
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Years ago my Dad was a salesman which supplied him a car. He would put 100,000 or more a year. He wondered how not changing engine oil would affect the engine life. He never changed the oil. He changed the filter every 5,000 miles and added oil as needed. The engine ran fine when the car was replaced with close to 200,000 miles and never had an oil change. It was a chev v8.
Now I used to rinse out the my engine every 30,000 or so miles. I would rinse it until is came out clean. I generally drove my cars 250,000 miles and never had an engine failure. I had a timing belt changed on one at about 125,000 miles and the mechanic said he never has seen a pan so clean in an engine with that mileage on it.
I am just getting ready to change oil in the next few days on my 455 which has just under 20,000 miles since I rebuilt it. I will try and find Chevron Delco 400 on Monday. If not I will use 20 50 oil with moly added like have since the engine had 5,000 miles on it.
Art
On Jul 18, 2015, at 8:07 PM, Robert Mueller wrote:
> Ken,
>
> I agree with your first paragraph below.
>
> I HEARTILY agree with the second paragraph!
>
> I remembered that John Sharpe runs Chevron Delo so I called him to see which one. He advised he runs Chevron Delo 400 which has even
> higher ZDDP levels, than Chevron Delo 400LE BUT it's hard to find!
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Henderson
>
> Bob,
>
> I agree with you that changing oil frequently is more important than whether it's dino or synthetic -- getting that crud out is the
> most important. What I'm anxiously awaiting, however, is the results of the bypass experiments. I have trouble believing that most
> manufacturers recommend filter changes only every other oil change if the filters become clogged as quickly as some suppose. That's
> not to say I agree with the "every other oil change" recommendation -- I never have and always change the filter when I change the
> oil. But, until this discussion, I've also been of the opinion (though not the practice) that it's more important to change the
> filter than the oil -- for a while. Especially in an engine that uses 1 qt. per 1000 miles or more.
>
> I DO LIKE BOB H'S RECOMMENDATION OF THE DELO 15W40 IF THEY DO INDEED INCLUDE MOLY AND MORE ZDDP. I'LL HAVE TO CHECK INTO THAT
> BEFORE SWITCHING FROM ROTELLA T.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Synthetic oil Just some thought's [message #282435 is a reply to message #282432] |
Sun, 19 July 2015 00:54 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
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Arthur Mansfield wrote on Sat, 18 July 2015 22:38Years ago my Dad was a salesman which supplied him a car. He would put 100,000 or more a year. He wondered how not changing engine oil would affect the engine life. He never changed the oil. He changed the filter every 5,000 miles and added oil as needed. The engine ran fine when the car was replaced with close to 200,000 miles and never had an oil change. It was a chev v8.
Now I used to rinse out the my engine every 30,000 or so miles. I would rinse it until is came out clean. I generally drove my cars 250,000 miles and never had an engine failure. I had a timing belt changed on one at about 125,000 miles and the mechanic said he never has seen a pan so clean in an engine with that mileage on it.
I am just getting ready to change oil in the next few days on my 455 which has just under 20,000 miles since I rebuilt it. I will try and find Chevron Delco 400 on Monday. If not I will use 20 50 oil with moly added like have since the engine had 5,000 miles on it.
Art
On Jul 18, 2015, at 8:07 PM, Robert Mueller wrote:
> Ken,
>
> I agree with your first paragraph below.
>
> I HEARTILY agree with the second paragraph!
>
> I remembered that John Sharpe runs Chevron Delo so I called him to see which one. He advised he runs Chevron Delo 400 which has even
> higher ZDDP levels, than Chevron Delo 400LE BUT it's hard to find!
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Henderson
>
> Bob,
>
> I agree with you that changing oil frequently is more important than whether it's dino or synthetic -- getting that crud out is the
> most important. What I'm anxiously awaiting, however, is the results of the bypass experiments. I have trouble believing that most
> manufacturers recommend filter changes only every other oil change if the filters become clogged as quickly as some suppose. That's
> not to say I agree with the "every other oil change" recommendation -- I never have and always change the filter when I change the
> oil. But, until this discussion, I've also been of the opinion (though not the practice) that it's more important to change the
> filter than the oil -- for a while. Especially in an engine that uses 1 qt. per 1000 miles or more.
>
> I DO LIKE BOB H'S RECOMMENDATION OF THE DELO 15W40 IF THEY DO INDEED INCLUDE MOLY AND MORE ZDDP. I'LL HAVE TO CHECK INTO THAT
> BEFORE SWITCHING FROM ROTELLA T.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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how did you rinse out the motor ? Kerosene ,trans fluid?
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Synthetic oil Just some thought's [message #282440 is a reply to message #282432] |
Sun, 19 July 2015 02:03 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
|
|
Art,
I've heard the same story about taxi companies doing the same thing with the same results.
My Mom had a Volvo station wagon she drove for over 250,000 miles and never had a problem with it, I told her to change the oil and
filter every 2500 miles which she did religiously. She totaled it when she was 78 by running it into some parked cars. She couldn't
remember what happened when the police showed up. She wanted me to buy her a new car but I said no and hired a care giver to pick
her up 3 days a week and take her wherever she needed to go. Oops off on a tangent AGAIN!
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: 1104agm
Years ago my Dad was a salesman which supplied him a car. He would put 100,000 or more a year. He wondered how not changing engine
oil would affect the engine life. He never changed the oil. He changed the filter every 5,000 miles and added oil as needed. The
engine ran fine when the car was replaced with close to 200,000 miles and never had an oil change. It was a chev v8.
Now I used to rinse out the my engine every 30,000 or so miles. I would rinse it until is came out clean. I generally drove my
cars 250,000 miles and never had an engine failure. I had a timing belt changed on one at about 125,000 miles and the mechanic said
he never has seen a pan so clean in an engine with that mileage on it.
I am just getting ready to change oil in the next few days on my 455 which has just under 20,000 miles since I rebuilt it. I will
try and find Chevron Delco 400 on Monday. If not I will use 20 50 oil with moly added like have since the engine had 5,000 miles on
it.
Art
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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