Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] 1-Ton Front End
| [GMCnet] 1-Ton Front End [message #282288] |
Fri, 17 July 2015 00:09  |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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After winding through the Santa Cruz mountains I began to wonder how the 1-Ton front end might help handling. My steering has always been kind of sloppy but I’ve never given any attention to the front end. Tom Hampton repacked the bearings, so I’m not too worried about the thing falling apart.
What is the improvement to the driving experience with the 1-Ton front end? Is it a prudent time to update some of the steering components as well?
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, CA
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Front End [message #282304 is a reply to message #282288] |
Fri, 17 July 2015 09:08  |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
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I don't think the one ton inherently improves handling.
I think it improves maintainability.
I'd get the steering sorted out before I put a 1 ton on
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Front End [message #282307 is a reply to message #282288] |
Fri, 17 July 2015 09:25 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Larry, I install 1 ton front ends for customers. IF YOUR OEM FRONT END IS
WORN OUT, and you install a 1 ton, the answer is probably yes. It darn sure
will stop better. This is due to the 11" rotors and bigger calipers.
Urethane bushings, new upper and lower ball joints that are more robust
than the Toronado parts they replace, eccentric upper rear control arm
bushings, corrected ride height, proper alignment specs, tight cv joints,
bigger, longer lasting front wheel bearings. All these things combine to
tighten up front end looseness. BUT, if your tie rod ends, pitman rod ends,
sway bar links and bushings are sloppy along with steering box and relay
arm and the rest of the steering, maybe not so much. It is, after all, a
system. From the steering wheel holder ( you) to the tires, if any part is
faulty, then the whole system is suspect. Jus' sayin'.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or.
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jul 16, 2015 10:09 PM, "Larry Davick" wrote:
> After winding through the Santa Cruz mountains I began to wonder how the
> 1-Ton front end might help handling. My steering has always been kind of
> sloppy but I’ve never given any attention to the front end. Tom Hampton
> repacked the bearings, so I’m not too worried about the thing falling apart.
>
> What is the improvement to the driving experience with the 1-Ton front
> end? Is it a prudent time to update some of the steering components as
> well?
>
> Larry Davick
> A Mystery Machine
> 1976(ish) Palm Beach
> Fremont, CA
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Front End [message #282312 is a reply to message #282288] |
Fri, 17 July 2015 10:39 |
bwevers
Messages: 597
Registered: October 2010
Location: San Jose
Karma: 5
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I've had the one ton on my coach for 4 years.
The handling on HWY 17 going to Santa Cruz is not as
good as I would like it to be.
Bill Wevers GMC49ers, GMC Western States
1975 Glenbrook - Manny Powerdrive, OneTon
455 F Block, G heads
San Jose
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Front End [message #282319 is a reply to message #282312] |
Fri, 17 July 2015 11:05 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Maybe we need to straighten out Highway 17! And I couldn’t help but make the snarky connection between handling complaints and your last name ;-)
Sorry - the Devil made me do it!
So far as the suspension goes, now I need to see where the issues lie, although after 39 years I’m sure to find wear everywhere. I just don’t want to rebuild something I’m likely to replace. Jim, your “list” of items gives me a good starting point.
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, CA
> On Jul 17, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Bill Wevers wrote:
>
> I've had the one ton on my coach for 4 years.
> The handling on HWY 17 going to Santa Cruz is not as
> good as I would like it to be.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Front End [message #282322 is a reply to message #282319] |
Fri, 17 July 2015 11:11 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Larry
If I had to do it again - I would rebuild the factory stuff with Lenzi's parts, and skip the one ton
FWIW, I have the one ton.
Just say'in.
Dolph Santorine
DE N8JPC
Wheeling, West Virginia
1977 ex-Palm Beach TZE167V100820
1-ton, Sullybuilt Bags, Reaction Arms, 3.70 LSD, Manny Transmission, EV-6010,
> On Jul 17, 2015, at 12:05 PM, Larry Davick wrote:
>
> Maybe we need to straighten out Highway 17! And I couldn’t help but make the snarky connection between handling complaints and your last name ;-)
>
> Sorry - the Devil made me do it!
>
> So far as the suspension goes, now I need to see where the issues lie, although after 39 years I’m sure to find wear everywhere. I just don’t want to rebuild something I’m likely to replace. Jim, your “list” of items gives me a good starting point.
>
> Larry Davick
> A Mystery Machine
> 1976(ish) Palm Beach
> Fremont, CA
>
>> On Jul 17, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Bill Wevers wrote:
>>
>> I've had the one ton on my coach for 4 years.
>> The handling on HWY 17 going to Santa Cruz is not as
>> good as I would like it to be.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Front End [message #282354 is a reply to message #282322] |
Fri, 17 July 2015 18:50 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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There is a geometry problem that exist on the One ton unit that most are
missing.
Bill Hubler and I started the kit and after couple years Manny started one.
I personally don't run one as I'm not comfortable with it, however we sell
them as people find that the cost factor is advantageous to do.
I can appreciate what Dolph is stating.
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Adolph Santorine
wrote:
> Larry
>
> If I had to do it again - I would rebuild the factory stuff with Lenzi's
> parts, and skip the one ton
>
> FWIW, I have the one ton.
>
> Just say'in.
>
> Dolph Santorine
>
> DE N8JPC
>
> Wheeling, West Virginia
>
> 1977 ex-Palm Beach TZE167V100820
> 1-ton, Sullybuilt Bags, Reaction Arms, 3.70 LSD, Manny Transmission,
> EV-6010,
>
>
>> On Jul 17, 2015, at 12:05 PM, Larry Davick wrote:
>>
>> Maybe we need to straighten out Highway 17! And I couldn’t help but
> make the snarky connection between handling complaints and your last name
> ;-)
>>
>> Sorry - the Devil made me do it!
>>
>> So far as the suspension goes, now I need to see where the issues lie,
> although after 39 years I’m sure to find wear everywhere. I just don’t want
> to rebuild something I’m likely to replace. Jim, your “list” of items
> gives me a good starting point.
>>
>> Larry Davick
>> A Mystery Machine
>> 1976(ish) Palm Beach
>> Fremont, CA
>>
>>> On Jul 17, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Bill Wevers wrote:
>>>
>>> I've had the one ton on my coach for 4 years.
>>> The handling on HWY 17 going to Santa Cruz is not as
>>> good as I would like it to be.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Front End [message #282358 is a reply to message #282322] |
Fri, 17 July 2015 19:56 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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>
> If I had to do it again - I would rebuild the factory stuff with Lenzi's
> parts, and skip the one ton
Don't think so
OEM
-new cv joints not available
- new nuckles na
- Bearings only good for 30 k
- puller costs what kit does
- lenzis parts are a stop- gap
- the 1 ton is the END-POINT for the 7000+ gmc still on the road
Read at GMCMI to see the kit specs are good.
Get your alignment done by a quality forint end shop!!!
>
>
> FWIW, I have the one ton.
>
> Just say'in.
>
> Dolph Santorine
>
> DE N8JPC
>
> Wheeling, West Virginia
>
> 1977 ex-Palm Beach TZE167V100820
> 1-ton, Sullybuilt Bags, Reaction Arms, 3.70 LSD, Manny Transmission,
> EV-6010,
>
>
>> On Jul 17, 2015, at 12:05 PM, Larry Davick > wrote:
>>
>> Maybe we need to straighten out Highway 17! And I couldn’t help but
> make the snarky connection between handling complaints and your last name
> ;-)
>>
>> Sorry - the Devil made me do it!
>>
>> So far as the suspension goes, now I need to see where the issues lie,
> although after 39 years I’m sure to find wear everywhere. I just don’t want
> to rebuild something I’m likely to replace. Jim, your “list” of items
> gives me a good starting point.
>>
>> Larry Davick
>> A Mystery Machine
>> 1976(ish) Palm Beach
>> Fremont, CA
>>
>>> On Jul 17, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Bill Wevers > wrote:
>>>
>>> I've had the one ton on my coach for 4 years.
>>> The handling on HWY 17 going to Santa Cruz is not as
>>> good as I would like it to be.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Front End [message #282360 is a reply to message #282354] |
Fri, 17 July 2015 20:58 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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jimk wrote on Fri, 17 July 2015 18:50There is a geometry problem that exist on the One ton unit that most are missing.
Bill Hubler and I started the kit and after couple years Manny started one.
I personally don't run one as I'm not comfortable with it, however we sell them as people find that the cost factor is advantageous to do.
I can appreciate what Dolph is stating. I may have said this before. What the community needs is a set of hybrid knuckles that preserve the original geometry and allows use of the one-ton components that fit the one-ton knuckle, like the bearings and hub and rotor.
Move the top ball joint connection of the one-ton knuckle closer to the center of the hub hole and shave it down so the OEM ball joint bolts into it, with the spacing between the upper and lower ball joints the same as OEM, and you got THE solution. OEM geometry, serviceable bearings, 11" rotors, the whole ball of wax.
If I had the skill and tools to modify that chunk of steel with confidence that it would be as sturdy as original, I'd be cranking them out right now.
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Front End [message #282365 is a reply to message #282360] |
Fri, 17 July 2015 22:42 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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The one ton is just fine read the literature and see the drawings. GMCMI
On Friday, July 17, 2015, A. wrote:
> jimk wrote on Fri, 17 July 2015 18:50
>> There is a geometry problem that exist on the One ton unit that most are
> missing.
>> Bill Hubler and I started the kit and after couple years Manny started
> one.
>> I personally don't run one as I'm not comfortable with it, however we
> sell them as people find that the cost factor is advantageous to do.
>> I can appreciate what Dolph is stating.
> I may have said this before. What the community needs is a set of hybrid
> knuckles that preserve the original geometry and allows use of the one-ton
> components that fit the one-ton knuckle, like the bearings and hub and
> rotor.
>
> Move the top ball joint connection of the one-ton knuckle closer to the
> center of the hub hole and shave it down so the OEM ball joint bolts into
> it,
> with the spacing between the upper and lower ball joints the same as OEM,
> and you got THE solution. OEM geometry, serviceable bearings, 11" rotors,
> the whole ball of wax.
>
> If I had the skill and tools to modify that chunk of steel with confidence
> that it would be as sturdy as original, I'd be cranking them out right now.
> --
> '73 23' Sequoia For Sale
> '73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
> Upper Alabama
> On "marriage equality": Once you define the direction that society is
> headed as "forward", you can call it progress.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Front End [message #282367 is a reply to message #282362] |
Fri, 17 July 2015 23:32 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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The way Dave Lenzi and I do our front bearing clearance and the Knuckle, we
can go 80,000 miles on them.
The A23 bearing might seem small, but it only fails when the knuckle starts
rocking and the grease seals fail to maintain on the hub.
We have several customers that send us the Knuckle with the rotor and hub
every 80,000 for us to pack the bearing.
We have yet to replace the knuckle or the hub.
My experience goes back to 1986 when we were having problems with bearing
clearance ( most of you are not aware of that).
Wes Coghlen went to Timkin and demanded they tighten the specs on the A23
set, which they did and problems be came less,
Roland Wilbur, Ken Toma and I started working on rebuilding the Knuckle so
that there would be slight interference fit.
Dave Lenzi does the same way as well.
We sell a fixture so one can install a grease fitting to inject grease now
and then for those that prefer the option.
I have already had a person order the big bearing on the one ton after
80,000 miles as it failed.
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Don Jeffers
wrote:
> Why not just make and include in the One Ton kit a mounting bracket to
> reposition the inside upper control arm mount points to restore the geometry
> with all the One Ton Front End kit parts? A little additional caster could
> be included too.
>
> A modified mount could probably be indexed off the original upper mounts.
> Anyone know why not? The brackets could be retrofitted to previous One Ton
> installations as well.
>
> From what I've been able to see, the major problem is increased angle of
> the upper control arm that leads to immediate large camber change and bump
> steer on jounce and rebound. The geometry problem should not be noticed on
> even, smooth roadways.
>
> Problems with the one ton geometry are probably not apparent until you
> encounter dips or waves in the pavement on one front wheel or the other and
> would be especially apparent when the left and right wheels encounter
> different dips or waves at the same time.
>
> That is the main deficiency with the One Ton front end geometry that I
> have been able to see. Repositioning the upper arm is not that difficult to
> do.
>
> I read that the One Ton bearings can be changed on the side of the road, a
> huge advantage.
>
> We were planning on changing all our bearings at 100,000 miles, but our
> Wallace bearings in the front end went out at 98,000 miles and we spent two
> days in a Dollar General parking lot waiting on a flat bed tractor-trailer
> to get to us for the ride home. We installed a Lenzi front end.
>
> The One Ton front end advantages of bearings, larger brakes and wider
> track all seem very worthwhile.
>
> Don and Susan Jeffers
> 78 Eleganza II
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Front End [message #282393 is a reply to message #282367] |
Sat, 18 July 2015 11:35 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Senior Member |
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After I posted this I was concerned that I may have stepped in "it"
The ensuing discussion was good for the order.
Lots of good points. Strawberry. Chocolate. Vanilla.
Neapolitan for me!
Dolph Santorine
DE N8JPC
Wheeling, West Virginia
1977 ex-Palm Beach TZE167V100820
1-ton, Sullybuilt Bags, Reaction Arms, 3.70 LSD, Manny Transmission, EV-6010,
> On Jul 18, 2015, at 12:32 AM, Jim Kanomata wrote:
>
> The way Dave Lenzi and I do our front bearing clearance and the Knuckle, we
> can go 80,000 miles on them.
> The A23 bearing might seem small, but it only fails when the knuckle starts
> rocking and the grease seals fail to maintain on the hub.
> We have several customers that send us the Knuckle with the rotor and hub
> every 80,000 for us to pack the bearing.
> We have yet to replace the knuckle or the hub.
> My experience goes back to 1986 when we were having problems with bearing
> clearance ( most of you are not aware of that).
> Wes Coghlen went to Timkin and demanded they tighten the specs on the A23
> set, which they did and problems be came less,
> Roland Wilbur, Ken Toma and I started working on rebuilding the Knuckle so
> that there would be slight interference fit.
> Dave Lenzi does the same way as well.
> We sell a fixture so one can install a grease fitting to inject grease now
> and then for those that prefer the option.
> I have already had a person order the big bearing on the one ton after
> 80,000 miles as it failed.
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Don Jeffers
> wrote:
>
>> Why not just make and include in the One Ton kit a mounting bracket to
>> reposition the inside upper control arm mount points to restore the geometry
>> with all the One Ton Front End kit parts? A little additional caster could
>> be included too.
>>
>> A modified mount could probably be indexed off the original upper mounts.
>> Anyone know why not? The brackets could be retrofitted to previous One Ton
>> installations as well.
>>
>> From what I've been able to see, the major problem is increased angle of
>> the upper control arm that leads to immediate large camber change and bump
>> steer on jounce and rebound. The geometry problem should not be noticed on
>> even, smooth roadways.
>>
>> Problems with the one ton geometry are probably not apparent until you
>> encounter dips or waves in the pavement on one front wheel or the other and
>> would be especially apparent when the left and right wheels encounter
>> different dips or waves at the same time.
>>
>> That is the main deficiency with the One Ton front end geometry that I
>> have been able to see. Repositioning the upper arm is not that difficult to
>> do.
>>
>> I read that the One Ton bearings can be changed on the side of the road, a
>> huge advantage.
>>
>> We were planning on changing all our bearings at 100,000 miles, but our
>> Wallace bearings in the front end went out at 98,000 miles and we spent two
>> days in a Dollar General parking lot waiting on a flat bed tractor-trailer
>> to get to us for the ride home. We installed a Lenzi front end.
>>
>> The One Ton front end advantages of bearings, larger brakes and wider
>> track all seem very worthwhile.
>>
>> Don and Susan Jeffers
>> 78 Eleganza II
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Front End [message #282561 is a reply to message #282551] |
Sun, 19 July 2015 21:59 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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Senior Member |
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djeffers wrote on Sun, 19 July 2015 21:23Our suggestion wasn't to modify the A-arms, but to make a bracket to mount on the frame to raise the upper A-arm inner pivot mounting location; keep the original A-arms with a raised upper inner pivot mount position.
As we said, "a mounting bracket".
Regards
Don and Susan Jeffers
78 Eleganza II, hopefully with a One Ton front end in its future. Raising the connection points of the upper arm has been done. But the difference at the steering wheel is not worth the effort and expense to the vast majority of people that get the kit.
I can't afford a kit. I really like the idea of bearings and rotor that you don't need a special tool and experience and hours to service, plus the larger rotor and caliper.
Manny is waiting for A-arm cores because the last 30 people that got kits haven't sent their old ones back. That tells me he has sold more than 30. If we got a foundry to crank out 50 or so pairs hybrid knuckles, and a machine shop to finish them, how many more dollars would that add to a kit, once you subtract the cost of modifying A-arms and shipping the old ones back? And Manny wouldn't be waiting for cores right now. There wouldn't be any.
And the geometry would be OEM and there wouldn't even need to be a proposal for raising the upper A-arm mounting points.
[Updated on: Sun, 19 July 2015 21:59] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Front End [message #282573 is a reply to message #282561] |
Mon, 20 July 2015 06:44 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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It sounds as if there's a little confusion at play here: Manny does not
modify the upper control arms, only the lowers, so re-designing the top of
the knuckle won't help him. It would be feasible to modify the lower ball
joint attachment to fit our OEM joints, as well as reducing the height of
the knuckle but the more robust 1-Ton joints would then be lost. However,
if one were to go to all that trouble, the upper balljoint socket taper
could be made the same as OEM, eliminating another necessary part change.
Eliminating the lower arm modifications and the necessity for both upper
and lower ball joint replacement might compensate for the cost of the new
knuckle. And it would tempt many to do only a partial front end rebuild,
limited to between the ball joints, so that many would still not have
improved steering.
'Tain't a simple problem. After 12-15,000 miles, I'm content with Manny's
solution.
Ken H.
On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 10:59 PM, A. wrote:
> ...
>
> Manny is waiting for A-arm cores because the last 30 people that got kits
> haven't sent their old ones back. That tells me he has sold more than 30. If
> we got a foundry to crank out 50 or so hybrid knuckles, and a machine shop
> to finish them, how many more dollars would that add to a kit, once you
> subtract the cost of modifying A-arms and shipping the old ones back? And
> Manny wouldn't be waiting for cores right now. There wouldn't be any.
>
> And the geometry would be OEM and there wouldn't even need to be a
> proposal for raising the upper A-arm mounting points.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Front End [message #282661 is a reply to message #282370] |
Mon, 20 July 2015 20:54 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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A Hamilto wrote on Fri, 17 July 2015 22:57djeffers wrote on Fri, 17 July 2015 22:13Why not just make and include in the One Ton kit a mounting bracket to reposition the inside upper control arm mount points to restore the geometry with all the One Ton Front End kit parts? A little additional caster could be included too. ... That is more work than it is worth. As long as you are straight and level, the wheels are pointed in the right direction, alignment is ok and steering is fine.
Here's my observation: The effort to build the jigs for modifying the A-arms could have been spent building jigs to modify the knuckle. The effort to modify the A-arms is the same order of magnitude as would be involved modifying the knuckles. The difference is the A-arms are basically thin sheet metal and the knuckle is a half inch thick chunk. I am guessing the decision was based on the confidence level of the prototyper - welding thin metal vs thick.
I'm not sure but i suspect those knuckles are nodular iron--if so, I wouldn't trust any welded units.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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