Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » mechanical input reference rear brakes/ bearings needed
| mechanical input reference rear brakes/ bearings needed [message #281751] |
Thu, 09 July 2015 08:57  |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
Karma: 0
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I just jacked up and blocked up my rear to get wheels off ground. Plan was to spin , listen and etc . I hope to prepare for a overnighter in 4 weeks that will be approx 30 miles from home.
Plan is to spin wheels and listen, then have wife hit brake with engine running and for me to feel brakes grab and let go.
with out wife here , so with out engine running
One rear wheel, when I turn it not using much effort it will rotate approx 3 complete rotations. Happy Happy
The other 3, one of which I did wheel bearings and pads on last year , they will rotate approx 1 and a half turns , with lots of effort I can get almost 2 complete turns out of.
Is there any easy way to determine if brake issue or bearing issue?
What should be considered normal inregards to wheel spinning ?
Coach has sat for atleast 8 months, soi understand a little brake rub can be normal.
Could it be that my 3 are normal, and the one that is freeer is the actual one need ing attention?
Any and all input is appreciated, if this trip goes bad, wife may never try again after last trip.
And thanks to every one here, site is a god send
brian
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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| Re: mechanical input reference rear brakes/ bearings needed [message #281752 is a reply to message #281751] |
Thu, 09 July 2015 09:22  |
77Royale
Messages: 461
Registered: June 2014
Location: Mid Michigan
Karma: 6
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Did I read that correctly that you put new brake shoes on just one wheel? So there are old(er) shoes on 3 wheels?
I would not have done shoes on just one of the 4 wheels, but I could have read the posting wrong.. Match them up so you have new shoes on both sides of the same mid or rear wheels.
That aside did you follow the manual on installing the drum/hubs properly? and adjusting the brake shoes.
From memory, you back off the shoes completely so they all free spin, with the hubs and drums on. While rotating the hub and drum, you tighten the castle nut to 25 foot pounds to seat the bearings and grease. Then Back that nut off, and FINGER tighten it back up to the point where you can put the pin back in through the castle nut. If at finger tight you cannot grab the hole for the Pin, back it off until you can. Thats it.
What did the grease look like on the other 3 wheels. Was there any? Any issues with the other three bearings or races? and when you replaced the bearings did you do both inner and outer? Did you use a new SKF seal?
As for adjusting the brake shoes, my understanding was to back them off all way, then tighten until you have a light drag. then back off a few clicks. All 4 should be all equal as far is drag. If there is excessive drag it may be tight parking brake cables. Someone else may have a better explanation of shoe adjustment.
After you have the shoes adjusted, hit the road for a few miles going lightly on the brakes. Then stop and feel the hubs, if they are very hot, you have an issue, either with brakes dragging, or bearings. If they are warm/cool. then its probably okay.
Hope it helps.
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan
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| Re: mechanical input reference rear brakes/ bearings needed [message #281753 is a reply to message #281752] |
Thu, 09 July 2015 09:53 |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
Karma: 0
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the one wheel was done because that was wheel i had blow out on, so i assume it may have gotten over heated. Tire that blew out visually looked good and was only 5 years old based on date stamp.
and yes, i did follow mm on bearing and etc. .
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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| follow up input [message #281760 is a reply to message #281751] |
Thu, 09 July 2015 11:26 |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Follow up on what I did.
remove hub, bearing looked good, pads little more than half left. adjust adjuster all the way loose.
repack bearing, reinstall and torque to 25lbs. came inside to confirm the 25. go outside and spin. no noise and turns free.
Now i start counting clicks as i adjust . no noise til i get to 100 click. bairly drag at that point. retorque because i thought i had a little play . then back off nut a half turn.
now if i spin that one using air valve as reference i counted 20 turn that it coasted after not using a lot of effort to spend.
Would anyone know if the 100 clicks from full loose to just touching would sound correct?
tea break then on to the next one
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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| process continues [message #281766 is a reply to message #281764] |
Thu, 09 July 2015 13:44 |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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you say tighten cantaliver nut to spec then back off to first slot for carter key, I backed off slightly less than half turn, so i may need to snug that.
as far a brake adj, i might be a bit loose, I hope to get all four to same state and go from there. much easier to tighten adjustment than loosen, for me anyway.
on other side i am finding that both wheel cylinders appear to be extended and not returning. one return spring stretched to its limit, after parts run i hope to continue this project.
If i leave emergency brake cable off inside hub should i expect to create addition problems? i do not use emergency brake.??
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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| Re: process continues [message #281767 is a reply to message #281766] |
Thu, 09 July 2015 14:30 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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The book says to tighten the nut to 25 and spin the wheel a few times. Then loosen the nut and retighten it finger tight. NO MORE. If the key / pin will not go in the hole at that point, back off the castle nut until it will go in.
Too tight is much worse than too loose.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: process continues [message #281769 is a reply to message #281766] |
Thu, 09 July 2015 14:52 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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The wheel cylinders should NOT be extended. You need to find out why this is happening. It could be the emergency brake cables, or it could be a bad brake hose, or is could be the brake pedal not returning properly. It also could be a defective return spring. Do not bother adjusting brakes until you get the shoes to fully return.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: process continues [message #281770 is a reply to message #281766] |
Thu, 09 July 2015 15:00 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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chasingsummer wrote on Thu, 09 July 2015 11:44you say tighten cantaliver nut to spec then back off to first slot for carter key, I backed off slightly less than half turn, so i may need to snug that.
as far a brake adj, i might be a bit loose, I hope to get all four to same state and go from there. much easier to tighten adjustment than loosen, for me anyway.
on other side i am finding that both wheel cylinders appear to be extended and not returning. one return spring stretched to its limit, after parts run i hope to continue this project.
If i leave emergency brake cable off inside hub should i expect to create addition problems? i do not use emergency brake.??
If the brake shoe is away from the upper pin and the spring is extended when at rest the spring has lost its tension .the shoe needs to return to to the pin when the shoes are at rest. A stuck wheel cylinder or sticking emergency cables will also cause this problem. If the emergency cables are not used it won't hurt anything. It would be easier for the spring to pull the shoe back without it.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: mechanical input reference rear brakes/ bearings needed [message #281771 is a reply to message #281751] |
Thu, 09 July 2015 15:08 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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If you torque up the nut and then don't release it, there is a VERY GOOD chance the bearings will go Dixie on you, seize up, shear the pin, and spin the nut and wheel off the coach. Ask me how I now this.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: process continues [message #281775 is a reply to message #281774] |
Thu, 09 July 2015 15:34 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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"Emergency Brake" system is, at best, a parking brake. Yes, I know that work has been done that will produce a working emergency brake, but the OEM set-up is not one.
tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] mechanical input reference rear brakes/ bearings needed [message #281780 is a reply to message #281751] |
Thu, 09 July 2015 18:48 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Brian,
Considering that your wife may not want to do any more trips with you if something goes wrong on your upcoming trip and you have
four weeks to prepare I would suggest you:
1) Remove all four rear wheels
2) Remove all four rear hubs
3) Inspect / replace brake components
4) Install four (4) new pairs of Wagner brake shoes P/N 2272DR @ $5.45 for two (2) pairs - Total $10.90
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=3092223&cc=1248869&jnid=451&jpid=0
Note: THE BRAKE SHOES ABOVE ARE RIVETED - DO NOT USE BONDED BRAKE SHOES!
5) Install four (4) new Wagner rear brake spring kits P/N H7028 @ $7.17 a pair - Total $14.34
http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-H7028-Drum-Brake-Hardware/dp/B001O11E4U
6) Install four (4) new Raybestos wheel cylinders P/N 37048 @ $3.88 each - Total $15.52
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?carcode=1248869&parttype=1688&a=Ad%2BCode%2BG-UK&ck[ID]=0&ck[idlist]=0&ck[viewcur
rency]=USD&ck[PHP_SESSION_ID]=vlp4p1hi92kkl3el7qhs3bueg6
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=313644&jnid=6&jpid=0
7) Remove, clean, inspect all four rear wheel bearings
8) Install four (4) new Chicago Rawhide rear wheel bearing seals P/N 21771 @ $10.95 for four (4)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/21771-CHICAGO-RAWHIDE-CR-SKF-OIL-SEAL-QTY-4-/231269381305
9) Grease the wheel bearings with Valvoline Synpower @ $5.19 per tube from NAPA in Ashboro, NC
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Grease-Multi-Purpose/_/R-VAA985_0006411638
DO NOT USE ANY OTHER BRAND OF SEAL!!!! SEE: http://gmcmotorhome.info/rear.html#BEARINGS
10) Clean and lubricate the parking brake cables - dissolve Valvoline Synpower in Acetone and inject it between the cable and
housing. The acetone will evaporate leaving the cables coated with Valvoline Synpower
Reference the relevant section of Maintenance Manual X-7525 for each of the operations above.
Cost
Brake shoes: $10.90
Brake springs: 14.34
Wheel cylinders: $15.52
Wheel bearing seals: $10.95
Valvoline Synpower: $5.19
Total: $56.90 plus shipping
The information above ASSUMES that all the wheel bearings and brake drums are serviceable.
For less than a hundred bucks you can demonstrate to your wife that YOU have done EVERYTHING possible to the rear brakes to make
sure you don't have any problems with them!
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: brian
I just jacked up and blocked up my rear to get wheels off ground. Plan was to spin , listen and etc . I hope to prepare for a
overnighter in 4 weeks that will be approx 30 miles from home.
Plan is to spin wheels and listen, then have wife hit brake with engine running and for me to feel brakes grab and let go.
with out wife here , so with out engine running
One rear wheel, when I turn it not using much effort it will rotate approx 3 complete rotations. Happy Happy
The other 3, one of which I did wheel bearings and pads on last year , they will rotate approx 1 and a half turns , with lots of
effort I can get almost 2 complete turns out of.
Is there any easy way to determine if brake issue or bearing issue?
What should be considered normal inregards to wheel spinning ?
Coach has sat for atleast 8 months, soi understand a little brake rub can be normal.
Could it be that my 3 are normal, and the one that is freeer is the actual one need ing attention?
Any and all input is appreciated, if this trip goes bad, wife may never try again after last trip.
And thanks to every one here, site is a god send
brian
--
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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