GMCforum
For enthusiast of the Classic GMC Motorhome built from 1973 to 1978. A web-based mirror of the GMCnet mailing list.

Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Fridge charge with dura cool
Fridge charge with dura cool [message #280762] Fri, 26 June 2015 08:38 Go to next message
C Boyd is currently offline  C Boyd   United States
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
Senior Member
My 6cu ft 12V, 110 swing motor compressor type has a small leak. I have a low side service port where I have added dura cool and got it working, is there an optimum low pressure number? I have acquired a nice 6 cu ft Dometic propane RM 2620 that almost cools good enough. It is 9" taller. I'm gonna flip it today and see if it helps. I read i may have to flip it a few times till I can hear the liquis gurgling down freely? Will I have to space it out from the cabinet ? I have a 23 ft Crestmont, fridge is over the bogies on pass side.
Any input or speriences appreciated..


C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #280771 is a reply to message #280762] Fri, 26 June 2015 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rcjordan   United States
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
Senior Member
>may have to flip it a few times

I don't know jack about the pressure number, but I did once overhear JimB mentioning he had the crew flip a refer a few times to get it to work.


SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #280772 is a reply to message #280762] Fri, 26 June 2015 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lqqkatjon is currently offline  lqqkatjon   United States
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
Senior Member
not sure if the flipping with solve anything and for how long it will be fixed, but it is worth a try.

But you said it "almost cools". from my research, if the cooling unit is bad, it is bad, and you get No cools. the "almost cools", I would think is more related to the heater, or the propane pressure, or other function that flipping would not solve. That is a good thing, because that problem I think is easier to fix, then if the cooling unit is clogged or leaking.

as far as the height for the rm2620, I looked up the Dometic replacement chart, and it shows it as a 49 1/2" tall unit x 21 3/4 wide and 24 in deep.

now I have no idea the size of your swing compressor fridge, because If you are saying the rm2620 is taller, you do not have the same size 12/110v swing compressor norcold as my palm beach. but just for thought, there is plenty of room for that rm2620 between the bogies and the ceiling. I am installing a rm2652 in my palm beach, and it is about 54 inches tall, and 24" deep and wide, and it about the max that will fit between the bogies and the ceiling.




Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #280780 is a reply to message #280762] Fri, 26 June 2015 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
Senior Member
C Boyd wrote on Fri, 26 June 2015 08:38
My 6cu ft 12V, 110 swing motor compressor type has a small leak. I have a low side service port where I have added dura cool and got it working, is there an optimum low pressure number?...
I don't know refrigeration, and my mind is mush today, so all the useful info at http://www.duracool.com/charts.html is just going over my head. Looking at the chart at http://www.duracool.com/chart.html I would guess you are looking for pressure on the low side between 7.3 PSI and 21.8 PSI. Seems like a freezer has to be around 10 - 15F to keep ice cream frozen (is that correct?). From the chart, I don't know which number, bubble temp or dew temp, is the evaporator. You will need to put a thermometer in your residential freezer to see where it ranges, and then adjust the Duracool in the swing motor until you get it about the same.
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #280783 is a reply to message #280780] Fri, 26 June 2015 12:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
Senior Member
Forgot to ask. Can you post a picture of the low side service port?
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #280784 is a reply to message #280783] Fri, 26 June 2015 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
Senior Member
And another thing. It was originally charged with R12, so you charged it with Duracool 12a, right? Not 22a?
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #280802 is a reply to message #280784] Fri, 26 June 2015 17:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
C Boyd is currently offline  C Boyd   United States
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
Senior Member
Yes, Wally has his boys look at it last year, they added the service port and got it working. They charged it with real12, when it got low, I just added dura cool. So it is a mix. I got a hunch I got it over charged as the low side was bout 30. I was rethinking 0-10 maybe.

A Hamilto wrote on Fri, 26 June 2015 13:47
And another thing. It was originally charged with R12, so you charged it with Duracool 12a, right? Not 22a?



C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #280804 is a reply to message #280762] Fri, 26 June 2015 17:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris Tyler is currently offline  Chris Tyler   United States
Messages: 458
Registered: September 2013
Location: Odessa FL
Karma: 7
Senior Member
Inverting or 'Burping' an absorbation type refer will work if it has a gas pocket. If it is an actual blockage prob not.
But as someone mentioned, if its trying to work it is likely another issue
Make sure your orifice is clean, the flame blue and the LP pressure ~11 inches WC
Also run a cleaning brush down the flue to remove scale and spider webs - prob the most common problem


76 Glenbrook
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #280808 is a reply to message #280802] Fri, 26 June 2015 18:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
Senior Member
C Boyd wrote on Fri, 26 June 2015 17:08
Yes, Wally has his boys look at it last year, they added the service port and got it working. They charged it with real12, when it got low, I just added dura cool. So it is a mix. I got a hunch I got it over charged as the low side was bout 30. I was rethinking 0-10 maybe.
Yeah. I think lower pressure is going the right way. In the discussions about Duracool, when the low side gets below 20 PSI or so, the evaporator ices up. I think the evaporator in the freezer needs to be below 20F, or ice cream gets soggy. So try letting off a pound at a time and stop when the freezer gets to the right temperature. I'll put a thermometer in my upright freezer and see what temp is "normal".
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #280827 is a reply to message #280762] Sat, 27 June 2015 05:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
Senior Member
You guys are really confusing two different type of refrigerators. The compressor type uses R-12 while the other one is an absorption one using ammonia and a completely different cooling system.

On the R-12 one the pressure determines the evaporation temperature point. The lower the pressure the colder the box will run. If it has a freezer then you want it to maintain about 0 degrees F in the freezer. I just looked at the pressure chart for R-12 and it says you want about 9.1 PSI to the evaporator for pure R-12. I then looked at a chart for Duracool and it says a pressure 0 PSI will give you -9.76F while a pressure of 7.3 will give you a temperature of +8.6F. So for pure Duracool you want something somewhere in the middle between 0 and 7.3 PSI.

Since you have a mix of R-12 and Durcool I would guess that you want something less that 9PSI to start with and reduce it as necessary from there until you get the operating temperature that you want.

On the absorption one you could try putting it upside down for a while to see if it frees up any clogs or gas trap and then go from there. Normal repair procedure is to replace the entire cooling unit. You do not install a service port or charge an absorption refrigerator with Duracool or R-12. It has an ammonia based refrigerant and works on an entirely different cooling principle.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #280838 is a reply to message #280827] Sat, 27 June 2015 10:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
Senior Member
Ken Burton wrote on Sat, 27 June 2015 05:56
You guys are really confusing two different type of refrigerators. The compressor type uses R-12 while the other one is an absorption one using ammonia and a completely different cooling system.

On the R-12 one the pressure determines the evaporation temperature point. The lower the pressure the colder the box will run. If it has a freezer then you want it to maintain about 0 degrees F in the freezer. I just looked at the pressure chart for R-12 and it says you want about 9.1 PSI to the evaporator for pure R-12. I then looked at a chart for Duracool and it says a pressure 0 PSI will give you -9.76F while a pressure of 7.3 will give you a temperature of +8.6F. So for pure Duracool you want something somewhere in the middle between 0 and 7.3 PSI.

Since you have a mix of R-12 and Durcool I would guess that you want something less that 9PSI to start with and reduce it as necessary from there until you get the operating temperature that you want.

On the absorption one you could try putting it upside down for a while to see if it frees up any clogs or gas trap and then go from there. Normal repair procedure is to replace the entire cooling unit. You do not install a service port or charge an absorption refrigerator with Duracool or R-12. It has an ammonia based refrigerant and works on an entirely different cooling principle.
We aren't confusing the two types. Mr. Boyd's first post said his swing-motor compressor type isn't getting cold, but has a Schrader for adding refrigerant. He said he has an absorption type that he can install if he can get it to cool better, and if he can't get the compressor type to cool better. Some posts after that were about the absorption fridge, some posts were about the compressor fridge.

At any rate, FWIW, my upright freezer in my utility room is at 10F vs 0F and keeps things cold enough, so I don't think he needs the freezer to be at 0F. 10F won't take so much compressor effort, and that's a good thing when running on the house battery.
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #280843 is a reply to message #280838] Sat, 27 June 2015 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
Senior Member
My my freezer thermometer suggests 0F as ideal temp. It also suggests 36 to 40 as ideal in the refrigerator. So that is where I run them.

From the Internet:

-18° C
Keep the refrigerator temperature at or below 40° F (4° C). The freezer temperature should be 0° F (-18° C). Check temperatures periodically. Appliance thermometers are the best way of knowing these temperatures and are generally inexpensive.Jan 20, 2015



Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #280844 is a reply to message #280843] Sat, 27 June 2015 11:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
Senior Member
Also every refrigerator that I have ever repaired suggested the same numbers. So I recharge them for something below 0 F and let the thermostat take care of it from there. The last couple of refrigerators I worked on were R-134 and not R-12.

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #280848 is a reply to message #280843] Sat, 27 June 2015 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
Senior Member
Ken Burton wrote on Sat, 27 June 2015 11:33
My my freezer thermometer suggests 0F as ideal temp. It also suggests 36 to 40 as ideal in the refrigerator. So that is where I run them.
From the Internet:

-18° C
Keep the refrigerator temperature at or below 40° F (4° C). The freezer temperature should be 0° F (-18° C). Check temperatures periodically. Appliance thermometers are the best way of knowing these temperatures and are generally inexpensive.Jan 20, 2015
I wasn't questioning your accuracy, only pointing out that a higher freezer temp could save some battery when dry camping. Everything in my 10F upright is solid, and ice cream stored in it has to be chiseled out of the container.

OTOH, if the freezer has to be 0F to get the fridge under 40F, the freezer has to be 0F.
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #280850 is a reply to message #280783] Sat, 27 June 2015 13:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
C Boyd is currently offline  C Boyd   United States
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
Senior Member
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p58256-fridge-service-tap.html



A Hamilto wrote on Fri, 26 June 2015 13:42
Forgot to ask. Can you post a picture of the low side service port?


C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #280854 is a reply to message #280850] Sat, 27 June 2015 14:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
Senior Member
C Boyd wrote on Sat, 27 June 2015 13:17
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p58256-fridge-service-tap.html
Thanks.
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #281003 is a reply to message #280854] Mon, 29 June 2015 13:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
Senior Member
I have been working on a Norcold DE726 out of a 1973 Sequoia off and on for the past couple of weeks. Nothing really wrong with the mechanicals, but the bottom trim plate on the door was rusted away and the door seal/gasket distorted (partly because of the rusted trim plate, partly from a wasp nest that the door was closed on for who-knows-how-long, and partly from a PO that tried to glue the gasket in place with what appears to be PVC cement). Unfortunately, the door gasket is pretty inflexible from decades of sitting in a hot vehicle, and I am not having much luck straightening it out. The door panel had been vandalized by a clueless brat with a spray can. And I still have to figure out how to get that PVC cement out of the gasket groove.

Got the door panel sanded smooth and painted with white semigloss interior latex (that's what I had on hand, and what I have to use since the CFO stopped cut off my GMC allowance). Used some creativity and painters tape to get a reasonable door seal for testing purposes.

Brought it in from the carport where it was about 85F to the house where it is 75F, set the thermostat for 3 and plugged it in. An hour later the fridge was at 55F and the thermostat turned it off. I just turned it down to 4 and it started running again. Will let it run until the thermostat turns it off again and see how long it takes and what temp the fridge is at then.
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #281032 is a reply to message #281003] Mon, 29 June 2015 18:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
Senior Member
A Hamilto wrote on Mon, 29 June 2015 13:20
I have been working on a Norcold DE726 out of a 1973 Sequoia off and on for the past couple of weeks. Nothing really wrong with the mechanicals, but the bottom trim plate on the door was rusted away and the door seal/gasket distorted (partly because of the rusted trim plate, partly from a wasp nest that the door was closed on for who-knows-how-long, and partly from a PO that tried to glue the gasket in place with what appears to be PVC cement). Unfortunately, the door gasket is pretty inflexible from decades of sitting in a hot vehicle, and I am not having much luck straightening it out. The door panel had been vandalized by a clueless brat with a spray can. And I still have to figure out how to get that PVC cement out of the gasket groove.

Got the door panel sanded smooth and painted with white semigloss interior latex (that's what I had on hand, and what I have to use since the CFO stopped cut off my GMC allowance). Used some creativity and painters tape to get a reasonable door seal for testing purposes.

Brought it in from the carport where it was about 85F to the house where it is 75F, set the thermostat for 3 and plugged it in. An hour later the fridge was at 55F and the thermostat turned it off. I just turned it down to 4 and it started running again. Will let it run until the thermostat turns it off again and see how long it takes and what temp the fridge is at then.
It got down to a little under 50F at a setting of 4. Turned it to 5 and it eventually got down to 40F plus or minus (39.7 to 40.1). The thermostat calls for cooling at 40.1 and shuts off at 39.7.

The freezer is still getting colder with time. Every time the thermostat calls for cooling, it is a little colder than the last time it called for cooling, and when it shuts off, it is a little colder than before. After a little less than 7 hours of cycling, the freezer is at 13.3F.

It appears if I want the fridge a couple of degrees cooler, or the freezer colder, I would have to replace the thermostat.
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #281035 is a reply to message #281032] Mon, 29 June 2015 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
Senior Member
You have been more successful than I. I got it stabilized to cool the freezer to about 15°F, but I wanted better. I ran out of time and tried first one and then another dorm reefer run from a modified square inverter, and Mary likes the second too much to even think about putting the old NO-Cold back in.
Matt
A Hamilto wrote on Mon, 29 June 2015 19:50
A Hamilto wrote on Mon, 29 June 2015 13:20
I have been working on a Norcold DE726 out of a 1973 Sequoia off and on for the past couple of weeks. Nothing really wrong with the mechanicals, but the bottom trim plate on the door was rusted away and the door seal/gasket distorted (partly because of the rusted trim plate, partly from a wasp nest that the door was closed on for who-knows-how-long, and partly from a PO that tried to glue the gasket in place with what appears to be PVC cement). Unfortunately, the door gasket is pretty inflexible from decades of sitting in a hot vehicle, and I am not having much luck straightening it out. The door panel had been vandalized by a clueless brat with a spray can. And I still have to figure out how to get that PVC cement out of the gasket groove.

Got the door panel sanded smooth and painted with white semigloss interior latex (that's what I had on hand, and what I have to use since the CFO stopped cut off my GMC allowance). Used some creativity and painters tape to get a reasonable door seal for testing purposes.

Brought it in from the carport where it was about 85F to the house where it is 75F, set the thermostat for 3 and plugged it in. An hour later the fridge was at 55F and the thermostat turned it off. I just turned it down to 4 and it started running again. Will let it run until the thermostat turns it off again and see how long it takes and what temp the fridge is at then.
It got down to a little under 50F at a setting of 4. Turned it to 5 and it eventually got down to 40F plus or minus (39.7 to 40.1). The thermostat calls for cooling at 40.1 and shuts off at 39.7.

The freezer is still getting colder with time. Every time the thermostat calls for cooling, it is a little colder than the last time it called for cooling, and when it shuts off, it is a little colder than before. After a little less than 7 hours of cycling, the freezer is at 13.3F.

It appears if I want the fridge a couple of degrees cooler, or the freezer colder, I would have to replace the thermostat.



Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: Fridge charge with dura cool [message #281039 is a reply to message #281035] Mon, 29 June 2015 20:19 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
Senior Member
Matt Colie wrote on Mon, 29 June 2015 19:10
You have been more successful than I. I got it stabilized to cool the freezer to about 15°F, but I wanted better. I ran out of time and tried first one and then another dorm reefer run from a modified square inverter, and Mary likes the second too much to even think about putting the old NO-Cold back in.
Matt
There is nothing wrong with a dorm fridge if it is energy efficient enough, or you don't dry camp. Actually, I would probably change to a propane fridge if I thought I was going to be off commercial power for days at a stretch. I wouldn't like running the Onan to recharge the house battery, and solar panels need to be in the sun, which adds complications, and a smaller genset is just one more thing to have to fit in limited storage space.

It has been fun tinkering with this one, and it works fine. If I can get the groove in the door cleaned out and the gasket to seal without having to tape it to the door, I am going to install it in the Sequioa.

What dissolves PVC cement that won't eat up the door plastic?
Previous Topic: [GMCnet] Avion - BLATANT SALES PITCH!
Next Topic: [GMCnet] Sunshine Report on Dwayne Jacobson
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Mon Sep 30 17:30:38 CDT 2024

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01335 seconds