Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Middle Age Spread
| Middle Age Spread [message #139549] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 21:18  |
winter
Messages: 247
Registered: September 2007
Location: MPLS MN
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After doing a little searching on this site as to why my door shuts hard, I found that my coach is a victim of middle age spread. The previous owner did a good job of covering over the indicators so I didn't see the signs until now. Right now I need to slam the door to close it. I hope the fixes outlined on this site will resolve the issue. I plan to fix it after this camping season is over.
Once fixed, how smooth should I expect the door to latch shut? The weather stripping also needs to be replaced so I plan on doing the full rebuild. I don't think I need to recurve the door at this point.
Thanks for your input.
Jerrod Winter
1977 Palm Beach
Green Jelly Bean
Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Re: [GMCnet] Middle Age Spread [message #139552 is a reply to message #139549] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 21:34  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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With Burt & Faye Curtis' door striker, new weatherstripping, and correct
curvature, the entry door should close like a new 77 Cadillac's.
Ken H.
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 10:18 PM, jerrod winter <jerrod_beth@msn.com> wrote:
> ...
> Once fixed, how smooth should I expect the door to latch shut? The weather
> stripping also needs to be replaced so I plan on doing the full rebuild. I
> don't think I need to recurve the door at this point.
>
>
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76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Middle Age Spread [message #139570 is a reply to message #139549] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 22:44 |
Andrew
Messages: 213
Registered: April 2011
Location: Connecticut
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Has anyone been able to determine whether the problem is caused by rib spread or by frame sag? I would think that the latter could cause the former, though the converse is not likely.
The fix for a sagging frame might be easier than that for spreading ribs.
1973 Sequoia 260 (since 2011)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Middle Age Spread [message #139604 is a reply to message #139573] |
Wed, 17 August 2011 07:46 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
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| Dolph Santorine wrote on Tue, 16 August 2011 22:45 |
Might that be why my cabinets are interfering with the wet bath woodwork?
Dolph Santorine
DE N8JPC
Wheeling, West Virginia
dolph@dolphsantorine.com
1977 GMC 26' Palm Beach
TZE167V100820
1976 GMC 26' Donor Coach
TZE166V101610
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Dolph,
Yes, and on some coaches you can see the upward bow of the body crossmembers between the frame rails. So, the floor ends up with a slight crown, and the sidewalls bow out slightly. Then the closet and bath doors and overhead cabinets get shifted.
To correct for the entry door -- some have successfully pulled in the side walls while others re-curve the door.
Various examples on the photo site.
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: Middle Age Spread [message #280526 is a reply to message #139549] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 19:25 |
winter
Messages: 247
Registered: September 2007
Location: MPLS MN
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I finally got around to fixing the door. From instruction here on the forum, I fixed the middle age spread, installed a new strike plate, installed new hinge bushings, and adjusted the hinges with a 2x4. The door now grabsthe second latch with a light push from 6" open. After 12 years of slamming it I'm amazed at how well it closes when it's working correctly.
Now I have new exhaust, sealing clearance lights, and body spacers to work on next.
Jerrod Winter
1977 Palm Beach
Green Jelly Bean
Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Re: [GMCnet] Middle Age Spread [message #280532 is a reply to message #139552] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 20:37 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Ken Henderson wrote on Tue, 16 August 2011 19:34With Burt & Faye Curtis' door striker, new weatherstripping, and correct
curvature, the entry door should close like a new 77 Cadillac's.
Ken H.
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 10:18 PM, jerrod winter <jerrod_beth@msn.com> wrote:
> ...
> Once fixed, how smooth should I expect the door to latch shut? The weather
> stripping also needs to be replaced so I plan on doing the full rebuild. I
> don't think I need to recurve the door at this point.
>
>
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What Ken said.
I had mine closing perfectly with the welded striker I got from Applied GMC. Then all of a sudden, I could hardly get the door to close. I would slam it, close it very firmly, etc etc, and it would still not latch. Then my wife happened to notice that the inside lock button was unscrewed and sticking up out of the door a lot farther than normal. I screwed it in to where it's supposed to be, and lo and behold, the door closed and latched easily just like before. Just a fluke, I guess, but I would have never thought to check that as a possible cause of the door latch not working properly.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Middle Age Spread [message #280540 is a reply to message #280532] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 22:22 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Speaking of the door latch: I wonder how many GMC doors can be closed
while locked? I know some people have left their keys inside, slammed the
door, and been unable to re-enter. It never happened to me, but probably
only because I discovered early in my ownership that it's preventable.
After 16+ years, I don't remember the details, but IIRC, it took only
flipping one lever on the latch (with the covering panels removed) to set
the "unlock when the door closes" mode which has protected me ever since.
Not many folks seem to know that is available.
Ken H.
On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 9:37 PM, Carl Stouffer wrote:
> ...
>
> I had mine closing perfectly with the welded striker I got from Applied
> GMC. Then all of a sudden, I could hardly get the door to close. I would
> slam it, close it very firmly, etc etc, and it would still not latch.
> Then my wife happened to notice that the inside lock button was unscrewed
> and
> sticking up out of the door a lot farther than normal. I screwed it in to
> where it's supposed to be, and lo and behold, the door closed and latched
> easily just like before. Just a fluke, I guess, but I would have never
> thought to check that as a possible cause of the door latch not working
> properly.
> --
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Middle Age Spread [message #280541 is a reply to message #280540] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 22:28 |
Guy Lopes
Messages: 499
Registered: April 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Karma: 3
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Ken,
I didn't realize that was an option! It's just a lever inside the mechanism? Is it marked in any way?
Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 8:22 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Middle Age Spread
Speaking of the door latch: I wonder how many GMC doors can be closed while locked? I know some people have left their keys inside, slammed the door, and been unable to re-enter. It never happened to me, but probably only because I discovered early in my ownership that it's preventable.
After 16+ years, I don't remember the details, but IIRC, it took only flipping one lever on the latch (with the covering panels removed) to set the "unlock when the door closes" mode which has protected me ever since.
Not many folks seem to know that is available.
Ken H.
On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 9:37 PM, Carl Stouffer wrote:
> ...
>
> I had mine closing perfectly with the welded striker I got from
> Applied GMC. Then all of a sudden, I could hardly get the door to
> close. I would slam it, close it very firmly, etc etc, and it would still not latch.
> Then my wife happened to notice that the inside lock button was
> unscrewed and sticking up out of the door a lot farther than normal.
> I screwed it in to where it's supposed to be, and lo and behold, the
> door closed and latched easily just like before. Just a fluke, I
> guess, but I would have never thought to check that as a possible
> cause of the door latch not working properly.
> --
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Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Middle Age Spread [message #280544 is a reply to message #280541] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 23:09 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Not that I recall.
Ken H.
On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 11:28 PM, Guy Lopes wrote:
> Ken,
>
> I didn't realize that was an option! It's just a lever inside the
> mechanism? Is it marked in any way?
>
> Guy Lopes
> 76 Birchaven "Orion"
> Sacramento, CA
> W6TOL
>
> www.GMC-Guy.com
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken
> Henderson
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 8:22 PM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Middle Age Spread
>
> Speaking of the door latch: I wonder how many GMC doors can be closed
> while locked? I know some people have left their keys inside, slammed the
> door, and been unable to re-enter. It never happened to me, but probably
> only because I discovered early in my ownership that it's preventable.
> After 16+ years, I don't remember the details, but IIRC, it took only
> flipping one lever on the latch (with the covering panels removed) to set
> the "unlock when the door closes" mode which has protected me ever since.
> Not many folks seem to know that is available.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 9:37 PM, Carl Stouffer wrote:
>
>> ...
>>
>> I had mine closing perfectly with the welded striker I got from
>> Applied GMC. Then all of a sudden, I could hardly get the door to
>> close. I would slam it, close it very firmly, etc etc, and it would
> still not latch.
>> Then my wife happened to notice that the inside lock button was
>> unscrewed and sticking up out of the door a lot farther than normal.
>> I screwed it in to where it's supposed to be, and lo and behold, the
>> door closed and latched easily just like before. Just a fluke, I
>> guess, but I would have never thought to check that as a possible
>> cause of the door latch not working properly.
>> --
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Middle Age Spread [message #280546 is a reply to message #139549] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 23:24 |
Adrien G.
Messages: 474
Registered: May 2008
Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624
Karma: 1
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winter wrote on Tue, 16 August 2011 21:18After doing a little searching on this site as to why my door shuts hard, I found that my coach is a victim of middle age spread. The previous owner did a good job of covering over the indicators so I didn't see the signs until now. Right now I need to slam the door to close it. I hope the fixes outlined on this site will resolve the issue. I plan to fix it after this camping season is over.
Once fixed, how smooth should I expect the door to latch shut? The weather stripping also needs to be replaced so I plan on doing the full rebuild. I don't think I need to recurve the door at this point.
Thanks for your input.
Jerrod,
Have you looked at this thread http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&goto=82853&rid=0&srch=middle+age+body+spread#msg_82853
Use 2 jacks each with a 3/8" x 3" x 12" plate (to spread the force on the frame) under the frame in the rear of the frame. Apply upper force on the frame and check the door to see if it fits and closes better. If it does, then the frame is sagging. It's like bending a long narrow box, as the top is pulled down (under tension), the sides will push out (increasing the wall arch), but the door is not affected by the forces.
My door had a 1" gap at the upper rear corner to body, after replacing the frame the gap was no longer there. If your frame lip has waves, the frame is weak.
Just what I did.
Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
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| Re: [GMCnet] Middle Age Spread [message #280549 is a reply to message #280546] |
Tue, 23 June 2015 03:57 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Read here
http://gmcmotorhome.info/spread.html
On Monday, June 22, 2015, Adrien Genesoto wrote:
> winter wrote on Tue, 16 August 2011 21:18
>> After doing a little searching on this site as to why my door shuts
> hard, I found that my coach is a victim of middle age spread. The previous
>> owner did a good job of covering over the indicators so I didn't see the
> signs until now. Right now I need to slam the door to close it. I hope
>> the fixes outlined on this site will resolve the issue. I plan to fix
> it after this camping season is over.
>>
>> Once fixed, how smooth should I expect the door to latch shut? The
> weather stripping also needs to be replaced so I plan on doing the full
>> rebuild. I don't think I need to recurve the door at this point.
>>
>> Thanks for your input.
>
>
>
> Jerrod,
>
> Have you looked at this thread
> http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&goto=82853&rid=0&srch=middle+age+body+spread#msg_82853
>
> Use 2 jacks each with a 3/8" x 3" x 12" plate (to spread the force on the
> frame) under the frame in the rear of the frame. Apply upper force on the
> frame and check the door to see if it fits and closes better. If it does,
> then the frame is sagging. It's like bending a long narrow box, as the top
> is pulled down (under tension), the sides will push out (increasing the
> wall arch), but the door is not affected by the forces.
>
> My door had a 1" gap at the upper rear corner to body, after replacing the
> frame the gap was no longer there. If your frame lip has waves, the frame
> is weak.
>
> Just what I did.
>
>
>
> --
> ”When we avoid the mistakes we might have made, we sometimes make the
> mistakes that we might have avoided.”
>
>
>
> Adrien & Jenny
> 75 Glenbrook
> Yuba City,Ca.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Middle Age Spread [message #280593 is a reply to message #280540] |
Tue, 23 June 2015 21:16 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Ken Henderson wrote on Mon, 22 June 2015 23:22Speaking of the door latch: I wonder how many GMC doors can be closed while locked? I know some people have left their keys inside, slammed the door, and been unable to re-enter. It never happened to me, but probably only because I discovered early in my ownership that it's preventable.
After 16+ years, I don't remember the details, but IIRC, it took only flipping one lever on the latch (with the covering panels removed) to set the "unlock when the door closes" mode which has protected me ever since. Not many folks seem to know that is available.
Ken H.
Ken,
I know mine will, but being a 73, there are more than few things that changed.
As a direct result of that same discovery, we have a door key hidden where there is external access.
It will stay there even after I get the keyless entry (currently in development) working.
Our coach used to go to Mexico and so has 8 keys on the ring. We don't carry them all so we can walk in a straight line.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Middle Age Spread [message #280594 is a reply to message #280593] |
Tue, 23 June 2015 21:25 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Matt Colie wrote on Tue, 23 June 2015 20:16Ken Henderson wrote on Mon, 22 June 2015 23:22Speaking of the door latch: I wonder how many GMC doors can be closed while locked? I know some people have left their keys inside, slammed the door, and been unable to re-enter. It never happened to me, but probably only because I discovered early in my ownership that it's preventable.
After 16+ years, I don't remember the details, but IIRC, it took only flipping one lever on the latch (with the covering panels removed) to set the "unlock when the door closes" mode which has protected me ever since. Not many folks seem to know that is available.
Ken H.
Ken,
I know mine will, but being a 73, there are more than few things that changed.
As a direct result of that same discovery, we have a door key hidden where there is external access.
It will stay there even after I get the keyless entry (currently in development) working.
Our coach used to go to Mexico and so has 8 keys on the ring. We don't carry them all so we can walk in a straight line.
Matt
My 78 is much like GM cars of the time. If you close the door with the lock button down, it will unlock. But if you hold the handle open while closing the door, it will remain locked--that's the way I usually close and lock my door.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Middle Age Spread [message #280621 is a reply to message #139549] |
Wed, 24 June 2015 10:14 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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I have to slam my door pretty hard to get it to latch, but it seems that the issue is probably that the door is riding a little lower than it should. The curve seems to be fine, and there's really no real gap, though obviously the fit is tighter at the bottom than the top of the door. It's easier to tell this on my coach since it's got horizontal stripes, which are about 1/8" or so low at the door. It's clear looking at the hinges that the hinges have worn, resulting in the door being a bit lower. I believe all I'll have to do to fix this is to remove the hinge pins one at a time, while supporting the door from the bottom, and slip in an appropriate washer between the bottom frame-mounted hinge and the door-mounted hinge.
Has anyone else done this, or have any particular wisdom that make this operation easier / more effective / less likely to result in disaster?
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: Middle Age Spread [message #280662 is a reply to message #139549] |
Wed, 24 June 2015 17:29 |
winter
Messages: 247
Registered: September 2007
Location: MPLS MN
Karma: 0
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I had the door halfway open and supported the outer edge with a jackstand. Tapped the top pin out with a hammer and punch then pulled out the old bushings. There wasn't much left and what was there looked like plastic. Installed new bushings and tapped the pin back in. That one took about 5 minutes. The bushings on the lower pin weren't too bad and after beating on the pin for a half hour without it coming out I gave up and left it in.
Jerrod Winter
1977 Palm Beach
Green Jelly Bean
Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Re: [GMCnet] Middle Age Spread [message #280676 is a reply to message #280662] |
Wed, 24 June 2015 20:39 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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If you've got an air hammer, it will punch the pins out amazingly easily.
Ken H.
On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 6:29 PM, jerrod winter wrote:
> I had the door halfway open and supported the outer edge with a
> jackstand. Tapped the top pin out with a hammer and punch then pulled out
> the old
> bushings. There wasn't much left and what was there looked like plastic.
> Installed new bushings and tapped the pin back in. That one took about 5
> minutes. The bushings on the lower pin weren't too bad and after beating
> on the pin for a half hour without it coming out I gave up and left it in.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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