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| Unwanted low rider [message #280372] |
Sat, 20 June 2015 16:19  |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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Looks like I dodged a bullet with the GMC. I had to move the coach last evening and after moving it about 100' and after I had parked and was just listening to the diesel clatter there was a loud pop. The front end sagged dramatically mostly to the right. Looking under it, it looked like the new torsion bar must have slipped in its socket. Kind of a shock as I'd tried to re-enforce the socket when I modified the arms for the one ton. Anyway, today I pulled it apart and found that the new adjustable pork chop had broken and the control arm socket was fine. It looks as though I didn't get the torsion bar seated all the way into the pork chop. I didn't realize the torsion bars could be to far/deep into the control arm socket and cause this problem. I'm wondering if putting an adjustable stop in the control arm socket would eliminate the possibility of this happening again or possibly moving the pork chop cross member slightly forward. It seems there is only about a half inch issue here and I'm wondering if by mixing and matching different parts from different years could be the problem. Just wondering if anyone has run into this problem before?
Anyway, it's WAY better it happened in the driveway than on the road.
Still waiting on the dash, 6 weeks and counting. I'd have built it myself if I knew it would take this long but I'm committed now (maybe I should be 'committed'  ).
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| [GMCnet] OFF NET RE: Unwanted low rider [message #280393 is a reply to message #280372] |
Sat, 20 June 2015 19:24  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Hal,
When I rebuilt the front suspension of The Blue Streak I did not have a torsion bar unloading tool so with the GMC up on jack stands
I put a floor jack up against the bottom of the lower control arm, raised it a bit, took out the shock and then slowly lowered the
control arm. I then removed the crossmember support that the pork chops are installed in and pulled out the torsion bars.
When I reinstalled the front suspension I inserted the torsion bars in the lower control arms and then reinstalled the crossmember
support. I couldn't get it into position so I checked the manual (ref X-7525 / Section 3A - Front Suspension / Page 3A-19 / TORSION
BAR AND/OR CROSSMEMBER SUPPORT / Installation.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Hal StClair
Looks like I dodged a bullet with the GMC. I had to move the coach last evening and after moving it about 100' and after I had
parked and was just listening to the diesel clatter there was a loud pop. The front end sagged dramatically mostly to the right.
Looking under it, it looked like the new torsion bar must have slipped in its socket. Kind of a shock as I'd tried to re-enforce the
socket when I modified the arms for the one ton. Anyway, today I pulled it apart and found that the new adjustable pork chop had
broken and the control arm socket was fine. It looks as though I didn't get the torsion bar seated all the way into the pork chop. I
didn't realize the torsion bars could be to far/deep into the control arm socket and cause this problem. I'm wondering if putting an
adjustable stop in the control arm socket would eliminate the possibility of this happening again or possibly moving the pork chop
cross member slightly forward. It seems there is only about a half inch issue here and I'm wondering if by mixing and matching
different parts from different years could be the problem. Just wondering if anyone has run into this problem before?
Anyway, it's WAY better it happened in the driveway than on the road.
Still waiting on the dash, 6 weeks and counting. I'd have built it myself if I knew it would take this long but I'm committed now
(maybe I should be 'committed' :lol: ).
Hal
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] OFF NET RE: Unwanted low rider [message #280406 is a reply to message #280393] |
Sat, 20 June 2015 21:12 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Hal,
Many years ago, whenever the convention was in Santa Rosa, I had the same
thing happen. We were trucking along with no problems until somewhere in
central Texas, in a small town with deep swales at the intersections, the
front end went down into one of them -- and kept going down until I felt
like I was sliding out of my seat into the windshield, which was facing
down at the pavement. When I recovered enough to stop & look underneath,
it was obvious that I had a serious suspension problem.
Since the coach would still roll and I didn't know what else to do, I
decided to try to limp the 100 miles to Walt Taylor's place. Fortunately,
just as we reached the outskirts of whatever the town was, I saw a good
sized body shop on the left side of the road, with a lot of fenced area
around it. When I got to the owner, he said, "Sure, pull it right over
there on the grass. We've got a couple of sheets of plywood you can put
down to work on. I'll lend you some jacks and stands..."
Before it was over with, that owner was out there crawling around under the
coach with me. It didn't take but a minute to determine that the aft end
of the right torsion bar had slipped out of the pork chop. Close
examination showed witness marks that it had not been seated more than
5/16". Whoever among the crew helping me install the new front clip was in
charge of the torsion bars didn't stick a finger in the hole in the back of
the crossmember to be sure the torsion bar was fully seated -- PROBABLY ME.
By dropping the front suspension, and using a jack fitted into the pork
chop dimple, I was able to reset the ride height. No more trouble for the
10's of 1000's of miles before I installed the 1-Ton (and none since I got
that straight).
For peace of mind, there probably should be a stop of some kind in the
A-arm socket to limit forward movement; but, I really don't think a
properly seated bar ever moves longitudinally.
Now to clairfy: DID the adjustable pork chop break, or did you just think
so before getting underneath?
Ken H.
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Hal
> StClair
>
> Looks like I dodged a bullet with the GMC. I had to move the coach last
> evening and after moving it about 100' and after I had
> parked and was just listening to the diesel clatter there was a loud pop.
> The front end sagged dramatically mostly to the right.
> Looking under it, it looked like the new torsion bar must have slipped in
> its socket. Kind of a shock as I'd tried to re-enforce the
> socket when I modified the arms for the one ton. Anyway, today I pulled it
> apart and found that the new adjustable pork chop had
> broken and the control arm socket was fine. It looks as though I didn't
> get the torsion bar seated all the way into the pork chop. I
> didn't realize the torsion bars could be to far/deep into the control arm
> socket and cause this problem. I'm wondering if putting an
> adjustable stop in the control arm socket would eliminate the possibility
> of this happening again or possibly moving the pork chop
> cross member slightly forward. It seems there is only about a half inch
> issue here and I'm wondering if by mixing and matching
> different parts from different years could be the problem. Just wondering
> if anyone has run into this problem before?
> Anyway, it's WAY better it happened in the driveway than on the road.
> Still waiting on the dash, 6 weeks and counting. I'd have built it myself
> if I knew it would take this long but I'm committed now
> (maybe I should be 'committed' :lol: ).
> Hal
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] OFF NET RE: Unwanted low rider [message #280412 is a reply to message #280406] |
Sat, 20 June 2015 22:36 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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Ken, it looks like the rear bar was only seated maybe 40% of the way into the pork chop. It cracked the inner adjustable cam. Before pulling everything apart I noticed the crack and the bar just about pulled out of the PC but thought it must have slipped in the socket and snapped the inner fitting. After getting the lower arm off it was obvious the bar hadn't slipped and the witness marks confirmed the bar hadn't been properly seated; my bad on this one for sure.
After measuring the bar length and cross member location it looks like there is about 1" of free space in the front arm socket for the torsion bar to move. I think I'll put a spacer or possibly a cut down valve spring in the lower arm socket to eliminate the possibility of a repeat performance. Guess I'm just a little paranoid  As you mentioned, the bar probably never moves or there would have been provisions made for it by GM. Thank you for the input.
BTW Rob, I do have an unloading tool I bought after doing as you did with a floor jack-no fun with or with out the tool though IMHO.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
[Updated on: Sat, 20 June 2015 22:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] OFF NET RE: Unwanted low rider [message #280414 is a reply to message #280412] |
Sun, 21 June 2015 02:38 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I saw that happen once on a coach. I believe it was a 78 Royale. Any way, the bar had slipped in the front socket and was jammed in there. Also the A frame bushings bushings were worn so when the vehicle accelerated and decelerated the bar was pull back and forth slightly and eventually worked it's way out of the pork chop.
I believe the rear of the bar needs to be fully seated in the pork chop and kept clean of any lubricants. The front of the bar needs to be lubricated with anti-seize or even grease.
One tell tale sign that this was a problem on this coach was the rust in and around the pork chop socket. When you see rust like that it is an indication of movement of the bar in the socket. I realize yours was not rusty because it was just assembled and it was probably was not moving backwards and forward. On reassembly, I would make sure that the pork chop end of the bar is clean and the A-frame end is liberally lubricated.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] OFF NET RE: Unwanted low rider [message #280439 is a reply to message #280414] |
Sun, 21 June 2015 13:17 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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I used anti cease on both ends assembling it. I'll take your advise and only lube the control arm socket on reassembly. I'm still considering a spacer up front but don't want it to be too tight. There may be slight movement as the suspension travels but probably minimal. Everything is new now so it should be tight. It's all back together except for the bars, not bad to work on when everything is clean and new  .
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] OFF NET RE: Unwanted low rider [message #280440 is a reply to message #280439] |
Sun, 21 June 2015 13:35 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Hal, only lube the end of the torsion bar that goes into the control arm.
NOT the pork chop end. When you install them, look through the 1/2" hole in
the aft end of the crossmember and make sure the TB is all the way through
the pork chop. I looked at those adjustable ones and thought to myself
"these things are waaay to pretty to put under the front end of a GMC" They
looked pretty substantial, guess they are not, particularly if the TB does
not engage across the entire thickness.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jun 21, 2015 11:17 AM, "Hal StClair" wrote:
> I used anti cease on both ends assembling it. I'll take your advise and
> only lube the control arm socket on reassembly. I'm still considering a
> spacer
> up front but don't want it to be too tight. There may be slight movement
> as the suspension travels but probably minimal. Everything is new now so it
> should be tight. It's all back together except for the bars, not bad to
> work on when everything is clean and new :).
> Hal
> --
> 1977 Royale 101348,
>
> 1977 Royale 101586,
>
> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] OFF NET RE: Unwanted low rider [message #280446 is a reply to message #280440] |
Sun, 21 June 2015 14:28 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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They do look nice for sure Jim as do the new torsion bars and I'm sure they are strong enough if properly installed. I guess I can blame my mechanic for this goof up-wait a minute, that's ME. Oh well, better in the driveway than on the Alcan Hwy 2500 miles from home.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
[Updated on: Sun, 21 June 2015 14:30] Report message to a moderator |
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