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HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280262] Fri, 19 June 2015 09:46 Go to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
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Location: Mounds View,MN
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So in the never ending quest to get decent AC, I have found that my hot water shut of valve isn't getting vacuum when the control is in the AC position.
I have verified the purple line goes to the vacuum canister and I know I get vacuum there as I have a vacuum gauge.
A quick check shown things are mostly where they should be on the dash control.

Has anyone fallen down this particular GMC rabbit hole?
Should I pull the control unit and clean it up??

TIA


Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
Re: [GMCnet] HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280271 is a reply to message #280262] Fri, 19 June 2015 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
powerjon is currently offline  powerjon   United States
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Keith,
This is a common problem that many have. A good and inexpensive fix is to add a shutoff valve in the return line of the heater and close it for the summer months. See the following.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/general-pictures/p50068-heater-shutoff-valve-with-58-26quot-3b-hose.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/general-pictures/p50074-heater-shutoff-valve-with-58-26quot-3b-hose.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/general-pictures/p50071-heater-shutoff-valve-with-58-26quot-3b-hose.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/general-pictures/p58205-hw-shutoff-valves.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/general-pictures/p58204-hw-shutoff-valves.html

I have an additional under couch AC/Heater that is fed by the other HW valve.

J.R. Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
Newsletter Editor/Publisher
GMC Eastern States
GMCMHI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
75 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan

> On Jun 19, 2015, at 10:46 AM, Keith V wrote:
>
> So in the never ending quest to get decent AC, I have found that my hot water shut of valve isn't getting vacuum when the control is in the AC
> position.
> I have verified the purple line goes to the vacuum canister and I know I get vacuum there as I have a vacuum gauge.
> A quick check shown things are mostly where they should be on the dash control.
>
> Has anyone fallen down this particular GMC rabbit hole?
> Should I pull the control unit and clean it up??
>
> TIA
> --
> Keith Vasilakes
> Mounds View. MN
> 75 ex Royale GMC
> 69 Vette
> 29 Dodge
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
Re: HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280274 is a reply to message #280262] Fri, 19 June 2015 11:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
Senior Member
Keith V wrote on Fri, 19 June 2015 09:46
So in the never ending quest to get decent AC, I have found that my hot water shut of valve isn't getting vacuum when the control is in the AC position.
I have verified the purple line goes to the vacuum canister and I know I get vacuum there as I have a vacuum gauge.
A quick check shown things are mostly where they should be on the dash control.

Has anyone fallen down this particular GMC rabbit hole?
Should I pull the control unit and clean it up??

TIA
I haven't done it, but I am considering throwing away the temperature door and replacing the vacuum actuated shutoff with a mechanical valve controlled by the temp slider cable (that moved the temp door) to turn coolant on/off AND regulate the temperature. Fewer parts to fail, and you don't have to muck with a hardware store valve twice a year.
Re: HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280301 is a reply to message #280262] Fri, 19 June 2015 16:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
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I have the 77 version and I think vac only closes the valve in recirc. Not sure if Norm and cold slider sends vac. Try yours on Rec to see if you get suction. Also vac lines under hood can be partly cracked and crispy giving some vacuum but not full signal. Look Ok but have cracks leàking. The wafer retaner can be cracked or loose and not sending full signal output.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Re: HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280307 is a reply to message #280301] Fri, 19 June 2015 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
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Location: Mounds View,MN
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JohnL455 wrote on Fri, 19 June 2015 16:58
I have the 77 version and I think vac only closes the valve in recirc. Not sure if Norm and cold slider sends vac. Try yours on Rec to see if you get suction. Also vac lines under hood can be partly cracked and crispy giving some vacuum but not full signal. Look Ok but have cracks leàking. The wafer retaner can be cracked or loose and not sending full signal output.


John,
You are correct!
That was 1/2 the problem, it only shuts off the hot water in recirc, good to know.
The other 1/2 of the problem was that the check valve was in backwards....

So now my AC will be Ice cold right? Very Happy


Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
Re: HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280315 is a reply to message #280307] Fri, 19 June 2015 23:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob de Kruyff   United States
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
Senior Member
Keith V wrote on Fri, 19 June 2015 17:18
JohnL455 wrote on Fri, 19 June 2015 16:58
I have the 77 version and I think vac only closes the valve in recirc. Not sure if Norm and cold slider sends vac. Try yours on Rec to see if you get suction. Also vac lines under hood can be partly cracked and crispy giving some vacuum but not full signal. Look Ok but have cracks leàking. The wafer retaner can be cracked or loose and not sending full signal output.


John,
You are correct!
That was 1/2 the problem, it only shuts off the hot water in recirc, good to know.
The other 1/2 of the problem was that the check valve was in backwards....

So now my AC will be Ice cold right? Very Happy

The heater shut off only gets vacuum when the temp lever is fully to the left in full cold mode.


Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
Re: HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280321 is a reply to message #280315] Sat, 20 June 2015 03:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
Senior Member
If you remove that valve in look inside it you will see that it does not fully shut off the hot coolant flow. It only reduces it some. I installed an manual valve year ago. I turn it off in the spring and back on when it gets cold. The manual (pex) valve is a quick install and can be done inn the parking lot of Lowes or wherever you buy it. You will need a razor knife, a screw driver and 2 hose clamps. I have mine under the front hood near the heater. It is easily accessible there.

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280326 is a reply to message #280315] Sat, 20 June 2015 05:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kincaid76royale is currently offline  kincaid76royale
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Member
You might try using an electric valve in place of the vacuum one. Simple install and really works,


http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6776-electric-heater-control-valve.html




Jack Kincaid, Castro Valley, CA

----- Original Message -----

From: "Bob de Kruyff"
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 9:09:24 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof

Keith V wrote on Fri, 19 June 2015 17:18
> JohnL455 wrote on Fri, 19 June 2015 16:58
>> I have the 77 version and I think vac only closes the valve in recirc. Not sure if Norm and cold slider sends vac. Try yours on Rec to see if
>> you get suction. Also vac lines under hood can be partly cracked and crispy giving some vacuum but not full signal. Look Ok but have cracks
>> leàking. The wafer retaner can be cracked or loose and not sending full signal output.
>
>
> John,
> You are correct!
> That was 1/2 the problem, it only shuts off the hot water in recirc, good to know.
> The other 1/2 of the problem was that the check valve was in backwards....
>
> So now my AC will be Ice cold right? :d

The heater shut off only gets vacuum when the temp lever is fully to the left in full cold mode.
--
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280329 is a reply to message #280262] Sat, 20 June 2015 07:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerry pinkerton is currently offline  kerry pinkerton   United States
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I ate that rabbit but didn't care for the taste. On my 77 heat/AC control unit, there are two air switches. The bit one for the air door is readily available and about $25. The other one is for the hot water valve and is not available TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

I replaced it with a manual PEX valve like JR showed. The only problem is that in our part of the world, we may want heat in the morning and AC in the afternoon. On a January rally in Tampa, I found myself having to stop and open/close the valve in order to stay comfortable. I will replace the valve with a ball valve that has a longer handle and rig up a pull/push control (think choke cable on old cars and lawnmowers).


Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
Re: HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280349 is a reply to message #280329] Sat, 20 June 2015 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
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kerry pinkerton wrote on Sat, 20 June 2015 07:00
I ate that rabbit but didn't care for the taste. On my 77 heat/AC control unit, there are two air switches. The bit one for the air door is readily available and about $25. The other one is for the hot water valve and is not available TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

I replaced it with a manual PEX valve like JR showed. The only problem is that in our part of the world, we may want heat in the morning and AC in the afternoon. On a January rally in Tampa, I found myself having to stop and open/close the valve in order to stay comfortable. I will replace the valve with a ball valve that has a longer handle and rig up a pull/push control (think choke cable on old cars and lawnmowers).
You just want to do what I said. Throw away the heater door and connect one of these to the temp control cable that currently operates that door:

http://www.crankshift.com/heater-core/heater-control-valve-3/
Re: HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280351 is a reply to message #280321] Sat, 20 June 2015 11:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob de Kruyff   United States
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
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Ken Burton wrote on Sat, 20 June 2015 02:33
If you remove that valve in look inside it you will see that it does not fully shut off the hot coolant flow. It only reduces it some. I installed an manual valve year ago. I turn it off in the spring and back on when it gets cold. The manual (pex) valve is a quick install and can be done inn the parking lot of Lowes or wherever you buy it. You will need a razor knife, a screw driver and 2 hose clamps. I have mine under the front hood near the heater. It is easily accessible there.

Ken, valvas may differ. I just recently went through my cooling system and spent a lot of time with the shut off valve. Initially it was plugged with crap and wouldn't flow at all. After I cleaned it I found that it functioned perfectly and was able to totally shut down flow if there was no vacuum signal.


Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
Re: HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280374 is a reply to message #280349] Sat, 20 June 2015 16:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerry pinkerton is currently offline  kerry pinkerton   United States
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A Hamilto wrote on Sat, 20 June 2015 10:30
...You just want to do what I said. Throw away the heater door and connect one of these to the temp control cable that currently operates that door:

http://www.crankshift.com/heater-core/heater-control-valve-3/


Mark, do you have a part number or make/model for that unit? It is EXACTLY what I'd prefer to do.


Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
Re: HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280377 is a reply to message #280262] Sat, 20 June 2015 17:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
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I thought it was VAC= CLOSED. Though being if vac failed you would have heat and def.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Re: HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280389 is a reply to message #280374] Sat, 20 June 2015 19:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
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kerry pinkerton wrote on Sat, 20 June 2015 16:31
Mark, do you have a part number or make/model for that unit? It is EXACTLY what I'd prefer to do.
Sorry, no. I just googled "heater control valve" and that was the first hit with a good picture.

I am pretty sure they have them at the auto parts places. Next time you are near a parts house, go in and ask the guy behind the counter.
Re: HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280415 is a reply to message #280351] Sun, 21 June 2015 02:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
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I have only looked at 2 of them and I believe both were OEM, but I'm not sure. Both had a loosely fitted butterfly for the valve with a hole drilled in the butterfly.

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280431 is a reply to message #280415] Sun, 21 June 2015 11:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob de Kruyff   United States
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Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
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Senior Member
Ken Burton wrote on Sun, 21 June 2015 01:56
I have only looked at 2 of them and I believe both were OEM, but I'm not sure. Both had a loosely fitted butterfly for the valve with a hole drilled in the butterfly.

Mine is not OEM--I think I got it at Autozone and picked one which would fit. It has a metal butterfly with a rubber gasket--it doesn't leak a drop. Although every bit helps on our systems, hot water in the core is not that big of a deal when asking for AC.


Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
Re: HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280432 is a reply to message #280349] Sun, 21 June 2015 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob de Kruyff   United States
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
Senior Member
A Hamilto wrote on Sat, 20 June 2015 09:30
kerry pinkerton wrote on Sat, 20 June 2015 07:00
I ate that rabbit but didn't care for the taste. On my 77 heat/AC control unit, there are two air switches. The bit one for the air door is readily available and about $25. The other one is for the hot water valve and is not available TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

I replaced it with a manual PEX valve like JR showed. The only problem is that in our part of the world, we may want heat in the morning and AC in the afternoon. On a January rally in Tampa, I found myself having to stop and open/close the valve in order to stay comfortable. I will replace the valve with a ball valve that has a longer handle and rig up a pull/push control (think choke cable on old cars and lawnmowers).
You just want to do what I said. Throw away the heater door and connect one of these to the temp control cable that currently operates that door:

http://www.crankshift.com/heater-core/heater-control-valve-3/

Great Idea !


Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
Re: HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280433 is a reply to message #280377] Sun, 21 June 2015 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob de Kruyff   United States
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
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Senior Member
JohnL455 wrote on Sat, 20 June 2015 16:54
I thought it was VAC= CLOSED. Though being if vac failed you would have heat and def.

Correct


Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
Re: HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280435 is a reply to message #280262] Sun, 21 June 2015 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerry pinkerton is currently offline  kerry pinkerton   United States
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Google is your friend. Well not really but it's danged handy even if they steal all your info and preferences and use them to load your screen with ads.

$15 bucks down the street

http:// shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/carquest-or-factor-air-cable-operated-non-bypass-open-heater-valve-74628/5652979-p?cm_mmc=PLA-_-Google-_-GPLA-_-5652979&am p;ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=5652979&ci_gpa=pla&ci_kw=&iv_=__iv_p_1_a_214327102_g_12425515822_w_kwd-68673849142_h_9012692_ii__d_c_v__n_g_x _pla_y_6201684_f_online_o_5652979_z_US_i_en_j_68673849142_s__vi__&gclid=CIvTg9aqocYCFYc6gQod4hQArg#fragment-2

There are also listing for other chain stores or Amazon for about the same price. I prefer to buy local when I can.


Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
Re: HVAC vacuum, or lack thereof [message #280445 is a reply to message #280435] Sun, 21 June 2015 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
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kerry pinkerton wrote on Sun, 21 June 2015 12:43
Google is your friend. Well not really but it's danged handy even if they steal all your info and preferences and use them to load your screen with ads.

$15 bucks down the street

http:// shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/carquest-or-factor-air-cable-operated-non-bypass-open-heater-valve-74628/5652979-p?cm_mmc=PLA-_-Google-_-GPLA-_-5652979&am p;am p;ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=5652979&ci_gpa=pla&ci_kw=&iv_=__iv_p_1_a_214327102_g_12425515822_w_kwd-68673849142_h_9012692_ii__d_c_v__n_g_x _pla_y_6201684_f_online_o_5652979_z_US_i_en_j_68673849142_s__vi__&gclid=CIvTg9aqocYCFYc6gQod4hQArg#fragment-2

There are also listing for other chain stores or Amazon for about the same price. I prefer to buy local when I can.
That one looks like plastic. The $50 one is metal, but that doesn't mean it will last any longer.

The thing to take into account is the throw on the lever on the dash relative to how far the cable moves. The arm on the valve might be too long or too short. You are smart enough to understand what I am saying, and handy enough to modify it to work.
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