Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Starter Problem
| [GMCnet] Starter Problem [message #279984] |
Tue, 16 June 2015 06:38  |
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Tangerine
Messages: 192
Registered: February 2004
Location: Livonia, MI
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I think I have a problem with my starter. When I turn the key I only get
a click, as if the battery is low. This happens hot or cold and not
every time. Most times I can hit the boost switch and it will turn over.
But not always. When this does not work I lift the hatch and tap on the
starter with the handle of a hammer or screw driver. This seems to work
every time. But it is a real pain when the engine is hot. The starter is
not that old. It was a rebuild when I bought it. Could it be the
solenoid? Most all the wires are new and all are tight. Good ground to
the block of the engine. Is there something I could do, short of
removing it? That sucker is heavy. I think that was a stupid question.
I am sure it has to come out. Maybe have it rebuilt?
--
Gary W. Mills
Livonia, MI
. ___________
./_][__][] []| 1974 GMC M/H
.*O-------OO-* Painted Desert
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1974 GMC 260
Tangerine Dream
Livonia Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starter Problem [message #279993 is a reply to message #279984] |
Tue, 16 June 2015 07:10  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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The first thing I would do is hook a voltmeter between engine ground and the heavy lead on the starter. While trying to start it, and holding the key in start, read the voltage. Is it around 12 volts? If it is then the battery and battery cables all the way battery to starter are OK.
Next move the plus lead to the smaller wire on the solenoid and hold it in start. If it reads around 12 volts then the solenoid wiring including the ignition switch and neutral safety switch are OK.
Next it is time to pull the starter and figure out if the solenoid contacts or solenoid movement when energized is OK. I'm thinking that you are going to find a worn contact or the round copper ring is worn in the solenoid.
There are several other things that could cause this.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starter Problem [message #280003 is a reply to message #279993] |
Tue, 16 June 2015 08:14 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Talk about feeling starter-stupid! Over the past year or so, my starter
seemed a little sluggish, so I had the excellent local rebuilder do a
spare. When I finally got around to installing it, operation didn't seem
much different -- just every now and then, the starter would "drag" a
little. Being a devotee of KenB's wiring paranoia, I did check the
voltages and connections; everything seemed OK.
On our last trip, to my son's home, I considered taking the removed starter
along, but with a space-challenged 23', I didn't. Wouldn't you know it?:
That rebuilt starter decided to quit.
So, off to AutoZone for a $70 "lifetime rebuilt" (meaning "You'll spend
your lifetime replacing rebuilt starters.").
After the excruciating job of getting my 78 yo body under there to install
the AZ starter, I was EXTREMELY upset when the starter STILL didn't work.
So I enlisted help to operated the key and got under the hood. I didn't
even have to unwind the multimeter leads before I saw smoke coming from the
engine battery's ground lead! Literally, from the ground lead itself, not
the connection to the battery or the cable.
You see, that cable is one with a lug on the end, not a clamp. The lug
fits on a stud which protrudes from a clamp, which in turn fits on the
battery terminal -- a marine adapter, in other words. When attempting to
start the engine, sparks and smoke came out around the stud! Big waste of
voltage where the stud had gotten loose inside the lead adapter.
Alan had a replacement adapter, so in just a couple of minutes, my year
long problem was solved, and I now have two good spare starters.
Oh yeah, throughout most of this, the boost switch always "cured" the
problem immediately. Not this time, because the jumper between the two 6
VDC golf cart batteries had developed some corrosion, rendering them
useless for large current draw. :-(
Just a reminder, having an MSEE degree don't allow you to ignore
fundamentals!
Ken H.
On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 8:10 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
> The first thing I would do is hook a voltmeter between engine ground and
> the heavy lead on the starter. While trying to start it, and holding the
> key
> in start, read the voltage. Is it around 12 volts? If it is then the
> battery and battery cables all the way battery to starter are OK.
>
> Next move the plus lead to the smaller wire on the solenoid and hold it in
> start. If it reads around 12 volts then the solenoid wiring including the
> ignition switch and neutral safety switch are OK.
>
> Next it is time to pull the starter and figure out if the solenoid
> contacts or solenoid movement when energized is OK. I'm thinking that you
> are
> going to find a worn contact or the round copper ring is worn in the
> solenoid.
>
> There are several other things that could cause this.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starter Problem [message #280008 is a reply to message #279984] |
Tue, 16 June 2015 09:20 |
77Royale
Messages: 461
Registered: June 2014
Location: Mid Michigan
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Id start with checking all the cables and verifying good grounds. Pull the ground connections and clean them up to fresh metal.
I found this spring that what appeared to be a good cable running to the starter, was infact mostly corroded on the inside under the exterior protective cover. I replaced it and all is well.
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starter Problem [message #280009 is a reply to message #280004] |
Tue, 16 June 2015 09:21 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Read here
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6460/start_switch_talk.pdf
Install,the tap
Read here
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5493-gmc-cranking-improve-for-free.html
For free improvement
Erf
On Tuesday, June 16, 2015, Robert Mueller wrote:
> Ken,
>
> And it might even CAUSE you to ignore them! ;-)
>
> You opened the door and I COULDN'T resist walking in!
>
> Reminds me of working with a truly brilliant engineer on a problem years
> ago; he suspected it was something wrong with his design, I
> looked for the simplest thing and that what it was.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Henderson
>
> Just a reminder, having an MSEE degree don't allow you to ignore
> fundamentals!
>
> Ken H.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
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Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starter Problem [message #280057 is a reply to message #280003] |
Tue, 16 June 2015 20:23 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Most of us have had at least one of those connection or intermittent cable problems over years. My most recent one was two springs ago on the GMC. Slow cranking. I pulled and cleaned both battery cables with a battery brush until shiny. I still had the problem. I had Laurie crank the engine while I looked. Nothing! I for some reason reached down and touched the negative battery cable and it was warm at the battery post. Where there is heat there is a poor connection. I removed the cable and filed out the connector slightly. I sand papered the battery post. Installed more anti-oxidation grease and tightened the clamp.
My point is that a shiny clean connection is not always electrically clean. When in doubt use a meter looking for voltage drop or at least touch the connections after applying a heavy electrical load looking for heat.
When Blaine and Diane in their coach, plus Laurie and I in our coach got ready to leave for a GMCMI rally, Blaine's coach would not start. It was clicking just like this one. Blaine said its had intermittently done this for a year or so. We put the coach on the hoist, pulled the starter and took it apart. We found absolutely nothing wrong with it or the solenoid. After reinstalling it we had the same problem, so I pulled, cleaned greased and reinstalled every battery cable, boot solenoid cable and ground cable. While reinstalling I added a tooth / star washer to each one. I use stainless tooth washers. That took care of the problem and he has not had it return since.
So the fix in this case was a shotgun approach but we had no choice since it was intermittent. Exactly which one was failing we will never know.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starter Problem [message #280089 is a reply to message #280003] |
Wed, 17 June 2015 07:50 |
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thesmith
Messages: 589
Registered: February 2015
Location: Cary, NC
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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"Oh yeah, throughout most of this, the boost switch always "cured" the
problem immediately."
That should have been a broad hint that the starter was just fine........also that the electrical connections at the starter are good.
Sometimes we have a tendency to think the worst case has happened and forget to check the simple things first.
Pete
Cary, NC
1978 Center Kitchen Royale.
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