Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Piston rod stretch in the 455
| [GMCnet] Piston rod stretch in the 455 [message #279871] |
Sun, 14 June 2015 09:52  |
glwgmc
Messages: 1014
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Hi Rob,
I am not trying to push S&J or any other engine builder that has made the investment in CNC production tooling - that is an individual choice. I was responding to the original posters comment about it being hard to find really good machining any more.
I build fine furniture and the same arguments are made any time some one talks about CNC machining of furniture components. On the one hand there is the cheer that goes up for the “highly skilled” craftsman who meticulously shapes and finishes four cabrio chair legs, for example, no two of which are really the same but they work. On the other hand there is the boo that goes up for the production shop which uses a cnc machine to spit out four perfectly alike cabrio chair legs which work perfectly. Which is “better”? And, is there a reason to pay 5x to 10x as much to the “highly skilled” craftsman for that chair? (BTW - that is why I always suggest my customers buy machine made chairs to match my table design if they can instead of paying me so very much more to hand craft the chairs for them. The difference in price really is 5x or more)
For sure there will once in a while be a flaw in a machine made chair, but that happens far less often than it does with the “highly skilled” craftsman built chairs. And, it is the reason that I don’t normally use things like hand planes, hand sharpened lathe tools, hand cut dovetails, etc. I can do those things, but my doing so will just wind up costing the customer more for little or no value gain. My take, anyway. Others may make a different decision, but my objective is to constantly improve the value proposition for my customers by ever improving my efficiency so I can build a higher quality piece of fine furniture, faster, and be able to sell it to my customers at ever lower prices while still enjoying a good return on my time and investment.
Oh, and I don’t use CNC machines myself simply because I do not want to be in the high volume fine furniture business. I get along just fine with my low volume, every customer becomes a friend forever, mode of operation that leaves plenty of time for our GMCing. But, I do use state of the art power tools, jigs and fixtures and carbide over tool steel cutting edges for the ever improving efficiency part. See you in a couple of months.
Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building in historic Kerby, OR
glwork@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 15:12:02 +1000
From: "Robert Mueller"
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Piston rod stretch in the 455
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jerry,
I agree that experience is beginning to show that S&J appear to be building quality engines for our GMC's and I agree "that it is
hard to find really good machine work done manually with worn out tooling."
However, there are lots of small time engine machine shops that can't justify the expense of numerically controlled (NC) machines
whose skilled machinists use properly maintained manual tools to obtain just as good results as the ones with NC machines.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
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Jerry & Sharon Work
78 Royale
Kerby, OR
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| Re: [GMCnet] Piston rod stretch in the 455 [message #279906 is a reply to message #279871] |
Sun, 14 June 2015 20:03  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Jerry,
I KNOW you weren't "pushing" S&J you (and others) have had good experience with them. I also agree with the people that commented on
it being hard to find good machining any more. I am guessing but I'll bet that's why Detroit is heavily into crate motors.
Harley Davidson has an engine exchange program, you send them your engine and they send you a remanufactured engine with the same
crankcase number. Why? Because the number of shops that can true the crank within the spec (off the top of my head) of 0.002 at the
case bearings are few and far between!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rey7v0eHZdE
I have a Caddy 500 here in Sydney that I will build for The Blue Streak, all the machining work was done in Houston. I called a
number of different hot rod clubs in Houston and told them I had the Caddy to rebuild and asked who they would recommend. They noted
that most guys bought crate motors. Guys from two clubs told me that members that wanted rebuilt engines used Scroggins Machine. It
was a family company that had been in business for YEARS. I went down to there shop and looked it over. It was old but it was clean
and organized so I went with them. Since the engine is sitting in pieces I can't say what kind of work they did.
As far as whether or not it's worth 5x to 10x for skilled craftsmen to make "stuff" I am in the group that cheers for them and is
willing to pay them to do so. The fact that that all four legs on a chair aren't exactly the same makes them more desirable to me so
therefore I'd pay you and NOT the production shop!
Basically your last paragraph states exactly what I meant in my email!
Yep, I reckon the RRC is going to be a lot of fun and the visit to Cite de la Automobile in Mulhouse will demonstrate why I am
enamored of skilled craftsmen.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Work
Hi Rob,
I am not trying to push S&J or any other engine builder that has made the investment in CNC production tooling - that is an
individual choice. I was responding to the original posters comment about it being hard to find really good machining any more.
I build fine furniture and the same arguments are made any time some one talks about CNC machining of furniture components. On the
one hand there is the cheer that goes up for the "highly skilled" craftsman who meticulously shapes and finishes four cabrio chair
legs, for example, no two of which are really the same but they work. On the other hand there is the boo that goes up for the
production shop which uses a cnc machine to spit out four perfectly alike cabrio chair legs which work perfectly. Which is
"better"? And, is there a reason to pay 5x to 10x as much to the "highly skilled" craftsman for that chair? (BTW - that is why I
always suggest my customers buy machine made chairs to match my table design if they can instead of paying me so very much more to
hand craft the chairs for them. The difference in price really is 5x or more)
For sure there will once in a while be a flaw in a machine made chair, but that happens far less often than it does with the "highly
skilled" craftsman built chairs. And, it is the reason that I don't normally use things like hand planes, hand sharpened lathe
tools, hand cut dovetails, etc. I can do those things, but my doing so will just wind up costing the customer more for little or no
value gain. My take, anyway. Others may make a different decision, but my objective is to constantly improve the value proposition
for my customers by ever improving my efficiency so I can build a higher quality piece of fine furniture, faster, and be able to
sell it to my customers at ever lower prices while still enjoying a good return on my time and investment.
Oh, and I don't use CNC machines myself simply because I do not want to be in the high volume fine furniture business. I get along
just fine with my low volume, every customer becomes a friend forever, mode of operation that leaves plenty of time for our GMCing.
But, I do use state of the art power tools, jigs and fixtures and carbide over tool steel cutting edges for the ever improving
efficiency part. See you in a couple of months.
Jerry
glwork@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com
================
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 15:12:02 +1000
From: "Robert Mueller"
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Piston rod stretch in the 455
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jerry,
I agree that experience is beginning to show that S&J appear to be building quality engines for our GMC's and I agree "that it is
hard to find really good machine work done manually with worn out tooling."
However, there are lots of small time engine machine shops that can't justify the expense of numerically controlled (NC) machines
whose skilled machinists use properly maintained manual tools to obtain just as good results as the ones with NC machines.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
==============
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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