Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] The GMC Distributor, Cam, and Carb are a team. Info for NEW owners.
[GMCnet] The GMC Distributor, Cam, and Carb are a team. Info for NEW owners. [message #278035] |
Tue, 19 May 2015 10:21 |
BobDunahugh
Messages: 2465 Registered: October 2010 Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
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A friend bought a 73 GMC 2 years ago. He and his wife just love it. He call me last Spring to tell me that it wouldn't start. I went over to find the problem. The distributor points needed to be replaced. Put new points in. And they were back on the road. I told him that it might be a good idea to call Dick Paterson for one of his HEI distributor. ( The GM HEI distributor is an outstanding unit. ) About 2 weeks ago he calls to tell me that he took my advice and went to a salvage yard to get a HEI distributor out of some Olds engine last Aug. He said that the HEI distributor was great. But there seemed to be some other problem. As the 455 just didn't seem to climb hills like it use too. (This info is more for the newer guys on this site. As it's been discussed before. ) Our CMC engines are different then the car engine. The differences are small. But make a real difference in performance, and operation. The GMC engine operates in a lower RPM range then the car du
e to the larger size of the tires. Thus less revs per mile. The GMC has alot more mass to deal with. The GMC engine differences are the distributor, carb, and cam on the performance side. And the water pump, and intake manifold. But that's another topic. ( the trans is stronger then the car trans. But that too is another topic. ) For the motor home engine to perform well under these operating conditions. The distributor advance curve needed to be altered to conform to the altered camshaft. And the carb had changes to perform correctly with the distributor, and camshaft. That's the short version of the story. So if you want to put a car engine in your GMC. These changes need to be made. So never trash these important components. Dick Paterson has these items. And is vary knowledgeable in this area.
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Re: [GMCnet] The GMC Distributor, Cam, and Carb are a team. Info for NEW owners. [message #278042 is a reply to message #278035] |
Tue, 19 May 2015 15:32 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Bob,
Here's a link to a photo of the advance curve for the Patterson distributor in Double Trouble.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/aa-miscellaneous-photos/p32021-dick-paterson-27s-distributor-curve.html
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Dunahugh
A friend bought a 73 GMC 2 years ago. He and his wife just love it. He call me last Spring to tell me that it wouldn't start. I
went over to find the problem. The distributor points needed to be replaced. Put new points in. And they were back on the road. I
told him that it might be a good idea to call Dick Paterson for one of his HEI distributor. ( The GM HEI distributor is an
outstanding unit. ) About 2 weeks ago he calls to tell me that he took my advice and went to a salvage yard to get a HEI
distributor out of some Olds engine last Aug. He said that the HEI distributor was great. But there seemed to be some other
problem. As the 455 just didn't seem to climb hills like it use too. (This info is more for the newer guys on this site. As it's
been discussed before. ) Our CMC engines are different then the car engine. The differences are small. But make a real
difference in performance, and operation. The GMC engine operates in a lower RPM range then the car du
e to the larger size of the tires. Thus less revs per mile. The GMC has alot more mass to deal with. The GMC engine differences
are the distributor, carb, and cam on the performance side. And the water pump, and intake manifold. But that's another topic. ( the
trans is stronger then the car trans. But that too is another topic. ) For the motor home engine to perform well under these
operating conditions. The distributor advance curve needed to be altered to conform to the altered camshaft. And the carb had
changes to perform correctly with the distributor, and camshaft. That's the short version of the story. So if you want to put a car
engine in your GMC. These changes need to be made. So never trash these important components. Dick Paterson has these items. And is
vary knowledgeable in this area.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: [GMCnet] The GMC Distributor, Cam, and Carb are a team. Info for NEW owners. [message #278048 is a reply to message #278035] |
Tue, 19 May 2015 17:07 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547 Registered: March 2007 Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Bob,
While I will not argue the trimming that Dick Paterson does is good, I would not change a '73 or 4 out to HEI.
The units are just too unreliable and difficult to service for me.
In the earlier coaches, it is my carefully considered opinion that, going to a Pertronix for points (either 1181 or 1181LS either is good) is a better choice. It means you don't have to hammer the air filter housing to fit it. And if you want better than that then add an external CDI box. Want more, open the plugs to 0.045~0.060 will get you about 0.25MPG. (Less misfiring events.) MSD is only one of the manufacturers still in the CDI business, and I have buried two of them. They work, but there are others. Right now, I am running a Delta Mk10b (c. 1976) and NGK XR451X set at 0.050 because the cap needs to be replaced. I'll be able to tell in the fall if the extra 2+$/per plug was worth it.
Matt
BobDunahugh wrote on Tue, 19 May 2015 11:21A friend bought a 73 GMC 2 years ago. He and his wife just love it. He call me last Spring to tell me that it wouldn't start. I went over to find the problem. The distributor points needed to be replaced. Put new points in. And they were back on the road. I told him that it might be a good idea to call Dick Paterson for one of his HEI distributor. ( The GM HEI distributor is an outstanding unit. ) About 2 weeks ago he calls to tell me that he took my advice and went to a salvage yard to get a HEI distributor out of some Olds engine last Aug. He said that the HEI distributor was great. But there seemed to be some other problem. As the 455 just didn't seem to climb hills like it use too. (This info is more for the newer guys on this site. As it's been discussed before. ) Our CMC engines are different then the car engine. The differences are small. But make a real difference in performance, and operation. The GMC engine operates in a lower RPM range then the car due to the larger size of the tires. Thus less revs per mile. The GMC has alot more mass to deal with. The GMC engine differences are the distributor, carb, and cam on the performance side. And the water pump, and intake manifold. But that's another topic. ( the trans is stronger then the car trans. But that too is another topic. ) For the motor home engine to perform well under these operating conditions. The distributor advance curve needed to be altered to conform to the altered camshaft. And the carb had changes to perform correctly with the distributor, and camshaft. That's the short version of the story. So if you want to put a car engine in your GMC. These changes need to be made. So never trash these important components. Dick Paterson has these items. And is vary knowledgeable in this area.
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Re: [GMCnet] The GMC Distributor, Cam, and Carb are a team. Info for NEW owners. [message #278051 is a reply to message #278048] |
Tue, 19 May 2015 17:34 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Dick Paterson offers the Pertronix upgrade as an option vs the HEI for
early coaches. There's one on my rack right now, including a "Springfield
Ignition" coil.
Ken H.
On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 6:07 PM, Matt Colie wrote:
> Bob,
>
> While I will not argue the trimming that Dick Paterson does is good, I
> would not change a '73 or 4 out to HEI.
> The units are just too unreliable and difficult to service for me.
>
> In the earlier coaches, it is my carefully considered opinion that, going
> to a Pertronix for points (either 1181 or 1181LS either is good) is a better
> choice. It means you don't have to hammer the air filter housing to fit
> it.
...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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Re: [GMCnet] The GMC Distributor, Cam, and Carb are a team. Info for NEW owners. [message #278065 is a reply to message #278035] |
Tue, 19 May 2015 22:52 |
Chris Tyler
Messages: 458 Registered: September 2013 Location: Odessa FL
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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I second Matt's endorsement of the pentronix. Never had one fail
I like the MSD boxes. They work with points too,and will make the points last much longer.
The module is the weak link for HEIs, and the replacements are crap for the most part.
If you run an MSD,you can bypass the module utilizing the pickup only.You can leave it in place in case you need a backup if the MSD should fail
Curious what the cam specs are as opposed to the same year Toronado.Was told they were the same elsewhere.
Regarding the ignition curve: Not taking anything form the patterson unit.I have one.However its not rocket science.Slightly higher initial and a fairly quick curve all in early; its basic hot rodder stuff to do.The vac advance is on the low side but understandable with a heavy vehicle. If someone wants to play with an adjustable cannister or better,a variable retard unit,and better yet a knock sensor,it may be possible to run more and pick up a bit of milage
76 Glenbrook
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Re: [GMCnet] The GMC Distributor, Cam, and Carb are a team. Info for NEW owners. [message #278066 is a reply to message #278035] |
Tue, 19 May 2015 22:53 |
Chris Tyler
Messages: 458 Registered: September 2013 Location: Odessa FL
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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I second Matt's endorsement of the pentronix. Never had one fail
I like the MSD boxes. They work with points too,and will make the points last much longer.
The module is the weak link for HEIs, and the replacements are crap for the most part.
If you run an MSD,you can bypass the module utilizing the pickup only.You can leave it in place in case you need a backup if the MSD should fail
Curious what the cam specs are as opposed to the same year Toronado.Was told they were the same elsewhere.
Regarding the ignition curve: Not taking anything form the patterson unit.I have one.However its not rocket science.Slightly higher initial and a fairly quick curve all in early; its basic hot rodder stuff to do.The vac advance is on the low side but understandable with a heavy vehicle. If someone wants to play with an adjustable cannister or better,a variable retard unit,and better yet a knock sensor,it may be possible to run more and pick up a bit of milage
76 Glenbrook
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Re: [GMCnet] The GMC Distributor, Cam, and Carb are a team. Info for NEW owners. [message #278072 is a reply to message #278067] |
Wed, 20 May 2015 04:39 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501 Registered: October 2011 Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Bob D.
Does your friend have the right coil pack? The wrong coil pack could effect
a polarity issue. That would be felt more at low rpms.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/HEI-Ignitions-A-primer-/10000000002053885/g.html
On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 10:10 PM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
> ""Curious what the cam specs are as opposed to the same year Toronado.Was
> told they were the same elsewhere."'
>
> This has been mentioned many times and I don't think there is any proof
> that the GMC had a specific cam.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
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--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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