| Re: [GMCnet] Engine oil control. There's alot more then just opinions [message #277860] |
Fri, 15 May 2015 09:22  |
BobDunahugh
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
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Getting oil to drain back to the pan has nothing to do with the oil pump delivery system. Yes, getting that oil back to the pan is important. But for our application in a motor home engine that's running at under 3200 RPM. That isn't an issue. Running in the 6 to 7000 RPM range. That another story. As to the .055 hole in the galley. That's too big. .008, to .011 is the general size in some applications. That is done. And I've done it in track cars that run at high RPM's with vary radical cam profiles. That's a high load application.. Guy's that have heard of the galley hole idea. So then do it. Just get the smallest drill they have. Most don't have the proper size drill bit. When I checked my bearing clearance in my 403 with about 125,000 miles on it. My timing chain was in great shape. And that was without any hole in the galley plug. Our engine's really run under close to ideal condition's for a long, and healthy life. They don't get subjected to vary much cold run ti
mes. We get in them, and drive for long distances at normal operating temps. My 403 is at 153,000. In this application. I see no reason to add a hole in the galley plug. As to what harm it does. That's really the wrong term to use. I'll explain that tonight. Bob Dunahugh
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine oil control. There's alot more then just opinions [message #277895 is a reply to message #277860] |
Fri, 15 May 2015 21:39  |
BobDunahugh
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
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As to what harm a HV pump does. That's really the wrong term to use. A better question is. Of what benefit is a high volume to my mostly stock 403, or 455 Olds engine. Guy's on this site talk about the use of syntactic lubes to make components run cooler, and with less friction. Friction / heat can be measured in the amount of HP that is required to do a measured amount of work. And in reality. Any amount of extra work that is done to move our GMC down the road. Affects MPG's. So we spend the extra money on syntactic lube's in our GMC's to reduce friction, and heat. The stock pump delivers 3.9 GPM at 38 PSI with an engine speed of 800 RPM's. That means the pump is at 400 RPM's. Most V8's of our type need around 1.3 GPM to be properly lubed. That means that you already have 1.6 GPM's going back to the oil pan by way of the relief valve. Remember. This is in a good condition engine. Main, and rod bearing clearance in a 455 are, rods, .0004 to .0033. mains are .0005
to .0021. That's a wide range for both. GM designed the oil pump to work well within this clearance range.HV pumps range in size from 23% to 50 % larger then stock. That extra oil that your pumping directly back to the oil pan. And you get absolutely no lubrication benefit from that oil. The loss of having a pump that's too large is that it puts extra load on the pump drive. Create more engine heat, and load on the engine. The stock pump uses about 3.5 HP to run. The HV pump can take 5 HP. That takes fuel. There'shere's no one way to improve mileage. Just alot of little way's to get the job done.Oil pressure numbers are like your own blood pressure readings. Those numbers indicate how you, or your engine are doing. I've heard of guy's saying that their rebuilt engine uses more oil, and has lower oil pressure then they expected. If an engine builder checks the bearing clearances. And finds them right at the factory limits. As listed above. Most will not turn the cran
kshaft. The end result well be an engine that will burn oil. And have premature oil pressure decline. My 403 with 153,000 mile. The rod bearings were at .0008 clearance. The mains were at .0009. That is on the absolute limit for me in a street engine. For track use. NO WAY. ( Or in my GMC. ) And that has been with standard 10/30 oil. The factory limits of .002 to .003 are not in my book. I AM NOT saying that any of the GMC engine builds do this. But many engine builds put HV pumps in all engines to cover up that the bearing clearance are already at the factory limits.I DO NOT care if you want to use HV pumps. They can cover up a multitude of sins, or errors. And they can help get some more miles out of a power plant that could use a rebuild. And I'm not interested in getting anyone to use standard oils. I just hope I shed some light on the topic of HV oil pumps. And not have them use them for the wrong reason of it's got to be better then stock.
Bob Dunahugh
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine oil control. There's alot more then just opinions [message #277945 is a reply to message #277860] |
Sat, 16 May 2015 23:11 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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BobDunahugh wrote on Fri, 15 May 2015 08:22Getting oil to drain back to the pan has nothing to do with the oil pump delivery system. Yes, getting that oil back to the pan is important. But for our application in a motor home engine that's running at under 3200 RPM. That isn't an issue. Running in the 6 to 7000 RPM range. That another story. As to the .055 hole in the galley. That's too big. .008, to .011 is the general size in some applications. That is done. And I've done it in track cars that run at high RPM's with vary radical cam profiles. That's a high load application.. Guy's that have heard of the galley hole idea. So then do it. Just get the smallest drill they have. Most don't have the proper size drill bit. When I checked my bearing clearance in my 403 with about 125,000 miles on it. My timing chain was in great shape. And that was without any hole in the galley plug. Our engine's really run under close to ideal condition's for a long, and healthy life. They don't get subjected to vary much cold run ti
mes. We get in them, and drive for long distances at normal operating temps. My 403 is at 153,000. In this application. I see no reason to add a hole in the galley plug. As to what harm it does. That's really the wrong term to use. I'll explain that tonight. Bob Dunahugh
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OK--got the opinion part but where are the facts?
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine oil control. There's alot more then just opinions [message #277953 is a reply to message #277945] |
Sun, 17 May 2015 02:04 |
appie
Messages: 902
Registered: April 2013
Location: denmark
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Fact: My paterson engine, now 5000 ml. With high volume pump does not loose any oil
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine oil control. There's alot more then just opinions [message #278018 is a reply to message #277860] |
Mon, 18 May 2015 21:48 |
BobDunahugh
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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Here's some data. And somethings to think about if your taking your engine for a rebuild. The stock pump delivers 3.9 GPM at 38 PSI with an engine speed of 800 RPM's. That means the pump is at 400 RPM's. Most V8's of our type need around 1.3 GPM to be properly lubed. That means that you already have 1.6 GPM's going back to the oil pan by way of the relief valve. Remember. This is in a good condition engine. Main, and rod bearing clearance in a 403,and 455 are, rods, .0004 to .0033. mains are .0005 to .0021. That's a wide range for both. GM designed the oil pump to work well within this clearance range. HV pumps range in size from 23% to 50 % larger then stock. That extra oil that your pumping directly back to the oil pan. And you get absolutely no lubrication benefit from the oil that's going in at the bottom of the oil pan. The loss of having a pump that's too large is that it puts extra load on the pump drive. Create more engine heat, and load on the
engine. The stock pump uses about 3.5 HP to run. The HV pump can take 5 HP. And that takes fuel. Oil pressure numbers are like your own blood pressure readings. Those numbers indicate how you, or your engine are doing. I've heard of guy's saying that their rebuilt engine uses more oil, and has lower oil pressure then they expected. If an engine builder checks the bearing clearances. And finds them right at the factory high limits. As listed above. Most will not turn the crankshaft. The end result well be an engine that will burn oil. And have premature oil pressure decline. My 403 with 153,000 mile. The rod bearings were at .0008 clearance. The mains were at .0009. That is on the absolute limit for me in a street engine. For track use. NO WAY. ( Or in my GMC. ) And that has been with standard 10/30 oil. The factory limits of .002 to .003 are too large to use in any rebuild in my opinion. I AM NOT saying that any of the GMC engine builders do this. But many
engine builds put HV pumps in all engines to cover up that the bearing clearance are already at the factory limits. Bob Dunahugh I DO NOT care if you want to use HV pumps. They can cover up a multitude of sins, or errors. And they can help get some more miles out of a power plant that could use a rebuild. And I'm not interested in getting anyone to use standard oils. I just hope I shed some light on the topic of HV oil pumps. I just don't like to see guy's install a HV pump because it sounds like a nice idea only. Bob Dunahugh
Bob Dunahugh
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