Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :(
| [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :( [message #276930] |
Tue, 28 April 2015 20:04  |
Barb Grandoe
Messages: 7
Registered: July 2014
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OK wise ones; I have a substantioal exhaust leak blowing into the cab.
How big a job is this to replace that gasket? Do I need to know any tricks before starting? What about that copper model Jim K is offering. It's kinda spendy, but if it means it's done for good, I LIKE it. Anybody?
thanks in advance,
B. Grandoe
73 Wisconsin Glacier
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :( [message #276937 is a reply to message #276930] |
Tue, 28 April 2015 21:21  |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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The job is easy if the bolts do not break. That is a gamble. The other wild card is if your manifold is cracked. Not hard, just something else to possibly plan for with job.
Remove wheel liner, and remove tire/wheel and the exhaust manifolds are easily accessed.
I am no expert, but if i were in your shoes, i would stay away from the copper, and use remflex. They are available from jim or direct from remflex. They are a bit more forgiving to old worn surfaces.
Get some new "doughnut". gaskets for the manifold to exhaust pipe too. Good idea to install new bolts too.
Took me about 30 minutes a side. I did not have any bolts break off.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :( [message #276981 is a reply to message #276930] |
Wed, 29 April 2015 10:11 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Barb Grandoe wrote on Tue, 28 April 2015 20:04OK wise ones; I have a substantioal exhaust leak blowing into the cab.
How big a job is this to replace that gasket? Do I need to know any tricks before starting? What about that copper model Jim K is offering. It's kinda spendy, but if it means it's done for good, I LIKE it. Anybody?
Barb as Jon recommends, Remflex. Get them from Applied, call them to order the gaskets and ask Nick or Jim for advice.
IMO memoving wheel wells is the only way to go. Every day for about a week spray the manifold bolts with liquid wrench or PB Blaster. Brad will know how to finesse the bolts to minimize the chance of breaking them.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :( [message #276984 is a reply to message #276930] |
Wed, 29 April 2015 10:25 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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One of the first jobs I did on my coach when I got it was exhaust manifold gaskets. I bought a pair of Dave Lenzi's embossed copper gaskets directly from Dave, followed his detailed instructions, and haven't had a leak ever since (almost 7 years and 25,000 miles). I used new hardware (Dave supplies the lock washers) and had the manifolds re-surfaced. I also got new Fel-Pro donuts from my local parts house.
I know Remflex is supposed to be the hot setup these days, but I have had excellent results with Dave's copper gaskets.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :( [message #277020 is a reply to message #276984] |
Wed, 29 April 2015 19:38 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Carl,
I may be full of it but it seems to me that copper would be better as long as you get a good seal. The reason being is that copper
would transfer heat between the heads and manifold better than the Remflex gasket.
If you check Parts Book 78Z you will find that there is NO gasket between the exhaust manifold and the heads.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic & Lunar Nut Case
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Stouffer
One of the first jobs I did on my coach when I got it was exhaust manifold gaskets. I bought a pair of Dave Lenzi's embossed copper
gaskets directly from Dave, followed his detailed instructions, and haven't had a leak ever since (almost 7 years and 25,000 miles).
I used new hardware (Dave supplies the lock washers) and had the manifolds re-surfaced. I also got new Fel-Pro donuts from my local
parts house.
I know Remflex is supposed to be the hot setup these days, but I have had excellent results with Dave's copper gaskets.
--
Carl
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :( [message #277034 is a reply to message #277020] |
Wed, 29 April 2015 22:06 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
I received an OFF NET email which made me realize that the way I worded the email below could be misconstrued; I have revised it
accordingly.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Rob Mueller
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 10:38 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :(
Carl,
I may be full of it but it seems to me that copper would be better as long as you get a good seal. The reason being is that copper
would transfer heat between the heads and manifold (and vice versa) better than the Remflex gasket.
If you check Parts Book 78Z you will find that there is NO gasket between the exhaust manifold and the heads and a copper gasket
would be more like no gasket than the Remflex.
It seems to me that heat in the exhaust manifolds would flow towards the heads as they have water flowing through them.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic & Lunar Nut Case
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Stouffer
One of the first jobs I did on my coach when I got it was exhaust manifold gaskets. I bought a pair of Dave Lenzi's embossed copper
gaskets directly from Dave, followed his detailed instructions, and haven't had a leak ever since (almost 7 years and 25,000 miles).
I used new hardware (Dave supplies the lock washers) and had the manifolds re-surfaced. I also got new Fel-Pro donuts from my local
parts house.
I know Remflex is supposed to be the hot setup these days, but I have had excellent results with Dave's copper gaskets.
--
Carl
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :( [message #277081 is a reply to message #276930] |
Thu, 30 April 2015 14:52 |
77Royale
Messages: 461
Registered: June 2014
Location: Mid Michigan
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ill go with I may be full of it too. But I replaced mine with Dave Lenzi's copper ones as well. I got new grade 8 bolts from the hardware store to put in with the supplied lock washers from Dave.
I have not had any leaks, and did not have the manifolds machined. I cleaned them well, checked them for warp and cracks and reused them. So far so good.
As for loosening the existing bolts. I agree, pull the wheel liners and you have all kinds of space to work with. I did the PB Blaster for a week, Then used a longer brass drift and large hammer to smack the bolt heads and deliver a bit of shock to them. Whether or not it helped I dont know, I did what others advised to do. I did not break any bolts coming out.
Dave has a prescribed method to install the gaskets and new bolts and torque sequence which I followed to the letter.
To cover my bases I have a set of Remflex gaskets in the coach as spares.
I also replaced the manifold to exhaust pipe donuts at the same time. I did not need to remove the tires and wheels to get in there, but am pretty sure I invented some new yoga moves in the process.
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :( [message #277082 is a reply to message #277081] |
Thu, 30 April 2015 14:59 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Is this a case of "tighten first and then loosen" after using the chemical loosening fluid?
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
|[ ]~~~[][ ][]\
"--OO--[]---O-"
> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:52:35 -0600
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: rojewsw@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :(
>
> Ill go with I may be full of it too. But I replaced mine with Dave Lenzi's copper ones as well. I got new grade 8 bolts from the hardware store to
> put in with the supplied lock washers from Dave.
>
> I have not had any leaks, and did not have the manifolds machined. I cleaned them well, checked them for warp and cracks and reused them. So far so
> good.
>
> As for loosening the existing bolts. I agree, pull the wheel liners and you have all kinds of space to work with. I did the PB Blaster for a
> week, Then used a longer brass drift and large hammer to smack the bolt heads and deliver a bit of shock to them. Whether or not it helped I dont
> know, I did what others advised to do. I did not break any bolts coming out.
>
> Dave has a prescribed method to install the gaskets and new bolts and torque sequence which I followed to the letter.
>
> To cover my bases I have a set of Remflex gaskets in the coach as spares.
>
> I also replaced the manifold to exhaust pipe donuts at the same time. I did not need to remove the tires and wheels to get in there, but am pretty
> sure I invented some new yoga moves in the process.
> --
> 77 Royale
> Mid Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :( [message #277096 is a reply to message #277081] |
Thu, 30 April 2015 17:47 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Wayne,
I discovered that the exhaust manifold donuts available from CarQuest have a cross section that is fatter and rounder (how's that
for some highly technical terminology!) and fit the exhaust manifold much better than other brands. They are coated with looks and
feels like molybdenum disulfide.
I have searched the CarQuest website but I can't seem to find them, sorry.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Rogewski
Ill go with I may be full of it too. But I replaced mine with Dave Lenzi's copper ones as well. I got new grade 8 bolts from the
hardware store to put in with the supplied lock washers from Dave.
I have not had any leaks, and did not have the manifolds machined. I cleaned them well, checked them for warp and cracks and
reused them. So far so good.
As for loosening the existing bolts. I agree, pull the wheel liners and you have all kinds of space to work with. I did the PB
Blaster for a week, then used a longer brass drift and large hammer to smack the bolt heads and deliver a bit of shock to them.
Whether or not it helped I don't know, I did what others advised to do. I did not break any bolts coming out.
Dave has a prescribed method to install the gaskets and new bolts and torque sequence which I followed to the letter.
To cover my bases I have a set of Remflex gaskets in the coach as spares.
I also replaced the manifold to exhaust pipe donuts at the same time. I did not need to remove the tires and wheels to get in
there, but am pretty sure I invented some new yoga moves in the process.
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :( [message #277184 is a reply to message #277096] |
Sat, 02 May 2015 16:57 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I just noticed that the new Remflex gaskets are improved with a steel mesh.
Never noticed that on the earlier ones.
Had one damaged in shipment and look at it and was surprised to see that
improvement.
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Rob Mueller
wrote:
> Wayne,
>
> I discovered that the exhaust manifold donuts available from CarQuest have
> a cross section that is fatter and rounder (how's that
> for some highly technical terminology!) and fit the exhaust manifold much
> better than other brands. They are coated with looks and
> feels like molybdenum disulfide.
>
> I have searched the CarQuest website but I can't seem to find them, sorry.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wayne Rogewski
>
> Ill go with I may be full of it too. But I replaced mine with Dave
> Lenzi's copper ones as well. I got new grade 8 bolts from the
> hardware store to put in with the supplied lock washers from Dave.
>
> I have not had any leaks, and did not have the manifolds machined. I
> cleaned them well, checked them for warp and cracks and
> reused them. So far so good.
>
> As for loosening the existing bolts. I agree, pull the wheel liners and
> you have all kinds of space to work with. I did the PB
> Blaster for a week, then used a longer brass drift and large hammer to
> smack the bolt heads and deliver a bit of shock to them.
> Whether or not it helped I don't know, I did what others advised to do. I
> did not break any bolts coming out.
>
> Dave has a prescribed method to install the gaskets and new bolts and
> torque sequence which I followed to the letter.
>
> To cover my bases I have a set of Remflex gaskets in the coach as spares.
>
> I also replaced the manifold to exhaust pipe donuts at the same time. I
> did not need to remove the tires and wheels to get in
> there, but am pretty sure I invented some new yoga moves in the process.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :( [message #277203 is a reply to message #277184] |
Sun, 03 May 2015 21:25 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I'd guess that's because the un-installed Remflex gaskets are so VERY
fragile. For anyone who's never handled one before: Be extremely careful
with those gaskets (even if they are now reinforced) because they have
hardly any inherent rigidity and once bent the carbon fractures, rendering
them USELESS. I carry a spare set beneath the bed mattress -- laminated,
inside their original package, between two pieces of 1/4" Masonite.
Ken H.
On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 5:57 PM, Jim Kanomata wrote:
> I just noticed that the new Remflex gaskets are improved with a steel mesh.
> Never noticed that on the earlier ones.
> Had one damaged in shipment and look at it and was surprised to see that
> improvement.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :( [message #277487 is a reply to message #277223] |
Thu, 07 May 2015 23:24 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Chuck, that was somewhat of a nail-biter trip home. Shortly after we left Bean, I noticed the oil pressure gauge had dropped to almost nothing, so that required checking out on spot at a station. No engine noise, and no defect in the wiring, and the factory gauge still read about a quarter...whatever that might be. Oil level ok, and it is a Harbor Freight gauge, so I kept on going-not like I was going to pull the pan and check the pickup screen there at the gas station (although I did take the intake manifold off my Pontiac in the Fish House parking lot back in 1980  ). Burned up a quart of oil taking the hills between Roanoke and Staunton at 30 MPH due to the truck traffic and some select drivers on I-81. Flying down the hill to Charlottesville allowed me to burn 25 gallons and go 253 miles for that leg...10 MPG!
Then I had to pay for that with a stuck/plugged lifter at the 522 intersection with I-64. That particular exit is a jinx for my family...every one of us has broken down there in totally different vehicles. The only quick remedy I could think of was change the oil filter and put in a quart of transmission fluid to loosen/dissolve whatever piece of crud had stuck the lifter. The store at the exit did not have oil filters, and I didn't either, so I was getting ready to figure out a way to drain some oil (I had plenty of ATF), and decided to start it up and listen to make sure the lifter was on the driver's side (if I wanted to remove the valve cover and set it up to run on 7 cylinders). After I started it, I could tell the lifter was slowly pumping back up, and then it was quiet! After a few seconds of proper thanks, I told Mark to shut the hoods and let's GTHOH!
Coach ran better and better the closer we got to home until I let it idle on the turn into the driveway. Diagonally blocking the lane it cut off and wouldn't restart until about 10 minutes later.
Haven't messed with it yet...gonna change the oil filter and hook up a mechanical gauge to verify the oil pressure, whatever it may be. It was 20 PSI on hot oil all the way out there and when we left Bean, so either the pickup screen is plugged, the filter is plugged, the oil pump fragged, or the oil pump drive is stripping (this happened to my Dad's 425). The last is not likely and I saw no metal in the oil on the stick. Engine sounded as quiet as always all the way home after getting past 522.
Enjoyed meeting everybody at the rally, and was glad to be able to help on that exhaust job. I think I might have been disappointed with the trip if I hadn't been able to help someone do something positive to their coach. A great group of people!
I wonder what ratio the final drive was in that $400 GMC down the road...would like to have that front frame and powertrain for parts or to rebuild.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :( [message #277766 is a reply to message #277223] |
Wed, 13 May 2015 10:32 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Bullitthead wrote on Mon, 04 May 2015 02:19"Is this a case of "tighten first and then loosen" after using the chemical loosening fluid? " C Boyd wrote on Mon, 04 May 2015 07:00... It was a real pleasure meeting you.
I'll second that! After you adjusted my brakes (before you had all that exhaust manifold fun) my GMC stops like never before. I had not realized how bad they had become. Thanks!
I need to backup more often and I now know how to adjust my brakes. Thanks for that lesson as well.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :( [message #277781 is a reply to message #277766] |
Wed, 13 May 2015 13:04 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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You are most welcome, Richard.
Glad I could help and also pass some of my dad's knowledge along. Amazing how that little bit of adjustment on the rear makes such a difference in brake pedal feel and power, isn't it? Don't forget you need to stop rather quickly when you back up, might spill your drink!
On the exhaust manifold procedure, I mentioned to a couple of people that I had used C-5A (copper) anti-seize on some manifolds with horrible results. I think another thread mentioned the C-5A anti-seize also, but I didn't reply to that one yet. I coated the bolt shoulders and threads with C-5A on the Bronco exhaust manifolds when installing a used motor, and it cooked off upon firing it up. Less than 6 months later, the engine blew the rear main seal out, so I had to yank the thing again to replace the seal. Doughnut connection was harder to get to than disconnecting the manifold on one side, until the C-5A coated bolts were found to be seized in the manifold on 2 bolts and the threads on 2 others.
Bottom line is:
I don't use the C-5A on any exhaust fasteners anymore, and have switched to using the silver/nickel type. Have not had to take any of that stuff back apart yet, so I can't give a qualified review yet.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hello...exhaust manifold leak :( [message #277823 is a reply to message #277781] |
Thu, 14 May 2015 08:59 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Bullitthead wrote on Wed, 13 May 2015 14:04You are most welcome, Richard.
Glad I could help and also pass some of my dad's knowledge along. Amazing how that little bit of adjustment on the rear makes such a difference in brake pedal feel and power, isn't it? Don't forget you need to stop rather quickly when you back up, might spill your drink!
On the exhaust manifold procedure, I mentioned to a couple of people that I had used C-5A (copper) anti-seize on some manifolds with horrible results. I think another thread mentioned the C-5A anti-seize also, but I didn't reply to that one yet. I coated the bolt shoulders and threads with C-5A on the Bronco exhaust manifolds when installing a used motor, and it cooked off upon firing it up. Less than 6 months later, the engine blew the rear main seal out, so I had to yank the thing again to replace the seal. Doughnut connection was harder to get to than disconnecting the manifold on one side, until the C-5A coated bolts were found to be seized in the manifold on 2 bolts and the threads on 2 others.
Bottom line is:
I don't use the C-5A on any exhaust fasteners anymore, and have switched to using the silver/nickel type. Have not had to take any of that stuff back apart yet, so I can't give a qualified review yet.
Terry,
I have used C-5a since my steamboat days. While I have never had problems you relate, I changed to nickel based stuff years ago because C-5a can kill an O2 sensor. I also know that it has a lower temperature limit than the nickel. I think it is like 1200°F, but I will try to find the can later today. It does need to go on clean threads or it has trouble. We learned that when we did the Buick Turbo program.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Y'all make it home ok? It was a real pleasure meeting you. 
didn't mean to hijack this thread, thought I was replying to Chuck's Bean Station thread...sorry!