Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Douple alternator pulley
| Douple alternator pulley [message #275074] |
Sun, 05 April 2015 16:46  |
77PBFinland
Messages: 31
Registered: March 2014
Location: Finland
Karma: 1
|
Member |
|
|
I´m rebuilding alternator and was going to install douple alternator pulley that I have bought.
Is there enough friction for power steering pump, when running two alternator belts trough it instead of stock belt routing?
Any recommends for belt lenght, or do I use stock lenght alt belts?
Somebody has done that and been there, I know. Just don´t want to try many different belts since don´t have wide selection available locally in 7/16 / 11mm widht.
Jake
Jarkko Lampinen
`77 Palm Beach TZE167V100508
Finland Europe
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Douple alternator pulley [message #275102 is a reply to message #275074] |
Sun, 05 April 2015 21:30  |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
77PBFinland wrote on Sun, 05 April 2015 15:46I´m rebuilding alternator and was going to install douple alternator pulley that I have bought.
Is there enough friction for power steering pump, when running two alternator belts trough it instead of stock belt routing?
Any recommends for belt lenght, or do I use stock lenght alt belts?
Somebody has done that and been there, I know. Just don´t want to try many different belts since don´t have wide selection available locally in 7/16 / 11mm widht.
Jake
I'm thoroughly convinced that a double alternator pulley is not needed and instead causes more problems than it supposedly fixes. Most people who go to a double pulley never fixed a worn single pulley.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Douple alternator pulley [message #275112 is a reply to message #275102] |
Sun, 05 April 2015 22:03 |
 |
ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
My experience is that the belt would squeal like a stuck pig at first engine start up. Now Tom Hampton did install the 100 amp (?) alternator and new belts, I suspect the load from that alternator was too much for the belt. No matter how tight I pulled that belt it would squeal. Keep in mind that I didn’t pull any tighter than I was comfortable pulling. Installing the double pulley, to my mind, is a benign way to fix my issue. I’ve never had an issue with Power Steering or Wipers and the belts are not so tight you could pluck a high G on them. I did get a matched set of belts from Applied GMC. Frankly the new belt Tom Hampton installed could have been defective, or the new pulley on the alternator could have been to blame, but my problems went away with the double pulley.
As you read in a previous post, push the power steering out as far as it will go and tighten it up. Then use the alternator to tighten both belts. I’m happy with my setup.
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, CA
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
|
|
|
|
| Re: Douple alternator pulley [message #275147 is a reply to message #275074] |
Mon, 06 April 2015 09:33 |
 |
mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"My experience" with double pulley is my '78.
I had replaced an alternator and had a double pulley on hand, so I used it. I had the auto parts store guy swap the pulleys with an electric impact. I installed and tightened the belts as others have suggested.
It worked fine for a few years. Then on a trip to a rally, I started getting noise that sounded like a bad power steering pump. After waiting for a new pump to be shipped to Weed Ca, we found the double pulley had come loose on the alternator shaft. (And didn't really need to wait over night for the pump.) I had to replace the alternator (again) as the shaft was damaged. We stayed with the stock set up this time.
Made the rally a day later than we had planned.
I can see using the double pulley for a larger than stock alternator or with the early ('73) alternator mounting. (My '73 alternator mounting seems to be "less stable" than my other two coaches.) But stock sized alternators with the later mountings, and the correct belts, should NOT need double pulleys.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
|
|
|
|
| Re: Douple alternator pulley [message #275149 is a reply to message #275102] |
Mon, 06 April 2015 09:59 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Bob,
While you may be thoroughly convinced of that for a stock trim or '76 or later, I can assure you it was not a waste of time or any additional problem in my case. Again, my coach is a 23 so house bank is in the front. The scream was most annoying. I set off to find out why. I was of the opinion that GM did not build it to do this. My belt tension gauge said that I was dangerously tight on the alternator belt. The scream persisted. I actually own sheave gauges. These are metal comparators for judging sheave size and wear. It said mine were good. The alternator was supposed to only be good for 80 amp. Well, mine does that and more. There in lies a problem. On a cold start after a weekend dry camp, I have measured an alternator output of 110+amps and seen it stay over 100 for a minute or more. It does this with the poor belt screaming for mercy until it gets hot enough to be sticky. This was more annoying because I could not kick the idle down or the alternator would stall the cold engine. (Modern high out alternators are actually controlled by the ECU to prevent them from stalling the main engine on a cold start.) When we did a lot of weekends, I was retensioning quite often and replacing them regularly.
I have been through many alternators enough to know how to juice it up to what is the top of the specification, and cable routing, sizes and lengths have been adjusted for minimum loss. As I now have 2ea. GC2 as a house bank less than four feet from the alternator. I suspect that someone with a long run to the house bank is never going to have this issue.
This issue I have run into with more than a few installations of high output alternators. I got to the point that I would not discuss (let alone quote) an upgrade until I found out what I could buy to put on the main engine to deal with this. But, if you doubt that alternator belt load is an issue, please go see http://www.balmar.net/tech-support.html. Balmar is a company that supplies high output alternators and programmable regulators. I think that they might know their business.
Matt
Bob de Kruyff wrote on Sun, 05 April 2015 22:30I'm thoroughly convinced that a double alternator pulley is not needed and instead causes more problems than it supposedly fixes. Most people who go to a double pulley never fixed a worn single pulley.
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Douple alternator pulley [message #275155 is a reply to message #275149] |
Mon, 06 April 2015 10:24 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I do not do any of this on my 23
oem for ever
with good tension, and a good pulley, and a fat belt
no squeal
no lost belts
good charging
good wrap on the ps pump
do what ever turns your crank :>)
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5950-alternator-belt-maint.html
erf
On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 7:59 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
> Bob,
>
> While you may be thoroughly convinced of that for a stock trim or '76 or
> later, I can assure you it was not a waste of time or any additional problem
> in my case. Again, my coach is a 23 so house bank is in the front. The
> scream was most annoying. I set off to find out why. I was of the opinion
> that GM did not build it to do this. My belt tension gauge said that I
> was dangerously tight on the alternator belt. The scream persisted. I
> actually own sheave gauges. These are metal comparators for judging
> sheave size and wear. It said mine were good. The alternator was supposed
> to
> only be good for 80 amp. Well, mine does that and more. There in lies a
> problem. On a cold start after a weekend dry camp, I have measured an
> alternator output of 110+amps and seen it stay over 100 for a minute or
> more. It does this with the poor belt screaming for mercy until it gets hot
> enough to be sticky. This was more annoying because I could not kick the
> idle down or the alternator would stall the cold engine. (Modern high out
> alternators are actually controlled by the ECU to prevent them from
> stalling the main engine on a cold start.) When we did a lot of weekends,
> I was
> retensioning quite often and replacing them regularly.
>
> I have been through many alternators enough to know how to juice it up to
> what is the top of the specification, and cable routing, sizes and lengths
> have been adjusted for minimum loss. As I now have 2ea. GC2 as a house
> bank less than four feet from the alternator. I suspect that someone with a
> long run to the house bank is never going to have this issue.
>
> This issue I have run into with more than a few installations of high
> output alternators. I got to the point that I would not discuss (let alone
> quote) an upgrade until I found out what I could buy to put on the main
> engine to deal with this. But, if you doubt that alternator belt load is an
> issue, please go see http://www.balmar.net/tech-support.html. Balmar is
> a company that supplies high output alternators and programmable regulators.
> I think that they might know their business.
>
> Matt
> Bob de Kruyff wrote on Sun, 05 April 2015 22:30
>> I'm thoroughly convinced that a double alternator pulley is not needed
> and instead causes more problems than it supposedly fixes. Most people who
>> go to a double pulley never fixed a worn single pulley.
>
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES
> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Douple alternator pulley [message #275161 is a reply to message #275155] |
Mon, 06 April 2015 10:41 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
If you have upgraded to a 100 amp alternator, and use the house batteries
heavily, a single belt will not handle the load at startup. If your house
batteries are fully charged, then load on the alternator is reduced and
belt squeal will not be loud enough to bother you. Double belts , properly
tensioned stop the squeal, but lose redundancy of independent drive belts
for different purposes. There is no perfect solution, only the one that
works best in specific applications. Gotta' love these old machines, warts
and all.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Apr 6, 2015 8:25 AM, "gene Fisher" wrote:
> I do not do any of this on my 23
> oem for ever
>
> with good tension, and a good pulley, and a fat belt
> no squeal
> no lost belts
> good charging
> good wrap on the ps pump
>
> do what ever turns your crank :>)
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5950-alternator-belt-maint.html
>
> erf
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 7:59 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
>
>> Bob,
>>
>> While you may be thoroughly convinced of that for a stock trim or '76 or
>> later, I can assure you it was not a waste of time or any additional
> problem
>> in my case. Again, my coach is a 23 so house bank is in the front. The
>> scream was most annoying. I set off to find out why. I was of the
> opinion
>> that GM did not build it to do this. My belt tension gauge said that I
>> was dangerously tight on the alternator belt. The scream persisted. I
>> actually own sheave gauges. These are metal comparators for judging
>> sheave size and wear. It said mine were good. The alternator was
> supposed
>> to
>> only be good for 80 amp. Well, mine does that and more. There in lies a
>> problem. On a cold start after a weekend dry camp, I have measured an
>> alternator output of 110+amps and seen it stay over 100 for a minute or
>> more. It does this with the poor belt screaming for mercy until it gets
> hot
>> enough to be sticky. This was more annoying because I could not kick the
>> idle down or the alternator would stall the cold engine. (Modern high
> out
>> alternators are actually controlled by the ECU to prevent them from
>> stalling the main engine on a cold start.) When we did a lot of
> weekends,
>> I was
>> retensioning quite often and replacing them regularly.
>>
>> I have been through many alternators enough to know how to juice it up to
>> what is the top of the specification, and cable routing, sizes and
> lengths
>> have been adjusted for minimum loss. As I now have 2ea. GC2 as a house
>> bank less than four feet from the alternator. I suspect that someone
> with a
>> long run to the house bank is never going to have this issue.
>>
>> This issue I have run into with more than a few installations of high
>> output alternators. I got to the point that I would not discuss (let
> alone
>> quote) an upgrade until I found out what I could buy to put on the main
>> engine to deal with this. But, if you doubt that alternator belt load
> is an
>> issue, please go see http://www.balmar.net/tech-support.html. Balmar is
>> a company that supplies high output alternators and programmable
> regulators.
>> I think that they might know their business.
>>
>> Matt
>> Bob de Kruyff wrote on Sun, 05 April 2015 22:30
>>> I'm thoroughly convinced that a double alternator pulley is not needed
>> and instead causes more problems than it supposedly fixes. Most people
> who
>>> go to a double pulley never fixed a worn single pulley.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES
>> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control
> Arms
>> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: Douple alternator pulley [message #275170 is a reply to message #275149] |
Mon, 06 April 2015 12:06 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Matt Colie wrote on Mon, 06 April 2015 09:59...The alternator was supposed to only be good for 80 amp. Well, mine does that and more. There in lies a problem. On a cold start after a weekend dry camp, I have measured an alternator output of 110+amps and seen it stay over 100 for a minute or more. It does this with the poor belt screaming for mercy until it gets hot enough to be sticky. This was more annoying because I could not kick the idle down or the alternator would stall the cold engine. (Modern high out alternators are actually controlled by the ECU to prevent them from stalling the main engine on a cold start.) When we did a lot of weekends, I was retensioning quite often and replacing them regularly. ... So an alternator that actually limited itself to 80 amps could have eliminated the problem, at the expense of a longer delay after starting the engine before the house battery was charged? Would that longer charge time have worked for you?
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Wed Nov 20 01:40:51 CST 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.03827 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
