Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Steering Wheel with Air Bag
| [GMCnet] Steering Wheel with Air Bag [message #273308] |
Sun, 08 March 2015 10:52  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
Len brought up a question in his Steering Wheels email, I thought I would start a new thread to discuss the feasibility of
installing a steering wheel with an air bag.
There is a sensor and control module that would have to be installed along with the steering wheel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTvPndZOP9g
Here's a video of how to remove an airbag and steering wheel from a Silverado Tahoe Avalanche Suburban.
Dis-arming the air bag: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3PJMwWDW4c
Remove air bag and steering wheel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_QBthAHIwM
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Wheel with Air Bag [message #273322 is a reply to message #273308] |
Sun, 08 March 2015 18:00  |
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Broham
Messages: 204
Registered: March 2013
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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USAussie wrote on Sun, 08 March 2015 11:52G'day,
There is a sensor and control module that would have to be installed along with the steering wheel.
Yes you can do it but it is not really feasible.
The air bag module relies on CAN bus data for wheel speeds, accelerometer, ignition key position, seat position and a few other sensors plus at lest 3 and as many as 10+ remote dedicated accelerometers or pressure sensors to detect a crash. The location of these sensors is critical to crash detection because not just do they tell you there was an impact but the time difference between the sensors determines the location of the impact. This is important because you want the steering wheel airbags to deploy for full frontal impacts but not for rear. You may or may not for offset frontal and side impacts. Just think about it, the shock "seen" from a 4,000 lbs unibody car with plastic bumpers hitting a 4000 lbs car at 40 MPH is much larger than a 12,000 body on frame RV hitting the same car at the same speed.
In short, yes you could install all the parts, perhaps work out enough fake data from the CAN bus to arm the system however you would never be able to find a module that was calibrated to be useful in our RVs to even come close to having the airbag deploy only when you wanted it to.
As you can see, I was a safety engineer in another life and have lots of inside knowledge about the subject. With that said, I don't have all the answers and welcome any and all discussion and conversation.
Todd
Todd
Owner of a 1976 Eleganza II 26’
other toys:
93 Vette
84 Goldwing
and gone but not forgotten
72 CB750 Chopper
96 Caprice Classic
34 Ford roadster
94 Fleetwood
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Wheel with Air Bag [message #273335 is a reply to message #273308] |
Sun, 08 March 2015 21:20 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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USAussie wrote on Sun, 08 March 2015 09:52G'day,
Len brought up a question in his Steering Wheels email, I thought I would start a new thread to discuss the feasibility of
installing a steering wheel with an air bag.
There is a sensor and control module that would have to be installed along with the steering wheel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTvPndZOP9g
Here's a video of how to remove an airbag and steering wheel from a Silverado Tahoe Avalanche Suburban.
Dis-arming the air bag: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3PJMwWDW4c
Remove air bag and steering wheel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_QBthAHIwM
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
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Rob--anything can be done, but this one is about as difficult as it gets. The challenge of not setting the bag off (and losing control) is as big or bigger than having it go off under the right circumstances. Pot holes, deer strikes, erroneous electrical noise can all set a bag off when you least want it to. Then you need to consider the possibility of breaking your neck due to the bus like angle of our steering columns and steering wheels. These things are a lifetime career for people and you want to tack a pickup bag on a 40 year old motorhome?
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Wheel with Air Bag [message #273350 is a reply to message #273348] |
Mon, 09 March 2015 09:14 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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There are "fake" air bags available to replace blown airbags compartments. I do not have a source for them, but I do remember a news article on Unscrupulous car repair places that would charge for air bag replacement and put a "dummy" one in it's place. This would solve the "ugly" hole in the center of steering wheel problem.
Interesting that air bags do not deploy on rear impacts. My pick-up was hit in the rear, perfectly on the Class 3 hitch, by a woman driving a Honda. Totaled both cars, and sent her improperly secured child to the hospital, via air ambulance.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Wheel with Air Bag [message #273353 is a reply to message #273322] |
Mon, 09 March 2015 09:40 |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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A small note to add to Todd Perkins (very interesting) notes:
I am sure today's cars do use CANbus and a whole lot of sensors and data
points. However, I went ahead and checked the information of my Miata NA
from the beginning of the 90s. It appears to me, that only a couple of
sensors in the front are used to signal information into the controller
of the Airbag. So, IF anyone would want to add an airbag, they would
best look at an older vehicle as a source. *I* would not install an
airbag into my GMC. I once replaced the steering wheel with the airbag
for a steering wheel without an airbag, as the controller of the airbag
was toast. Our local inspection people ignored for 2 or 3 inspections in
a row, before on inspector asked me about, and said: Of course YOU did
not dismantle the airbag steering wheel yourself, did you?! - it is
after all full of explosives.
Oh, if one does want to carry on with adding airbag steering wheels into
GMCs, maybe the person should ask around for GMCs that are on their way
to a junkyard... might be better suited as a test bed, than as pure junk :*)
Safe journey!
--
Best regards
Peer Oliver Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
'76a Eleganza II, VA
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Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Wheel with Air Bag [message #273358 is a reply to message #273322] |
Mon, 09 March 2015 10:12 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505
Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
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Todd,
The info you provided is true for current production, but on older cars I believe the systems to be much simpler. I have owned older airbag equipped cars that had no ABS, no wheel sensors, no CANBUS, and a cable operated speedo. Where would the airbag control module get all those input signals from? I'm not an expert by any means on this, but I'm pretty sure there are vehicles out there with fairly simple airbag systems that might be easily transferred to another type of chassis. Would I do it? NO WAY.
I know a person that has had an airbag pop in their face without any accident occurring. It isn't pleasant to say the least and could have actually caused a serious accident if he had been driving on the highway. He was incapacitated for a few seconds due to the impact and sudden shock. The airbag deployment was caused by a defective controller which I believe was the subject of a recall a few months later.
Think about the potential liability issues in a situation where you kill someone due to momentary loss of vehicle control, caused by a self-installed airbag system that popped in your face. I think I'll stick with lap belts and no airbag in my GMC.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
The EWIP (Eternal Work In Progress)
> On Mar 8, 2015, at 7:00 PM, Todd Perkins wrote:
>
> USAussie wrote on Sun, 08 March 2015 11:52
>> G'day,
>>
>> There is a sensor and control module that would have to be installed along with the steering wheel.
>
>
> Yes you can do it but it is not really feasible.
>
> The air bag module relies on CAN bus data for wheel speeds, accelerometer, ignition key position, seat position and a few other sensors plus at lest 3
> and as many as 10+ remote dedicated accelerometers or pressure sensors to detect a crash. The location of these sensors is critical to crash
> detection because not just do they tell you there was an impact but the time difference between the sensors determines the location of the impact.
> This is important because you want the steering wheel airbags to deploy for full frontal impacts but not for rear. You may or may not for offset
> frontal and side impacts. Just think about it, the shock "seen" from a 4,000 lbs unibody car with plastic bumpers hitting a 4000 lbs car at 40 MPH is
> much larger than a 12,000 body on frame RV hitting the same car at the same speed.
>
> In short, yes you could install all the parts, perhaps work out enough fake data from the CAN bus to arm the system however you would never be able to
> find a module that was calibrated to be useful in our RVs to even come close to having the airbag deploy only when you wanted it to.
>
> As you can see, I was a safety engineer in another life and have lots of inside knowledge about the subject. With that said, I don't have all the
> answers and welcome any and all discussion and conversation.
>
> Todd
> --
> Todd
>
> Owner of a 1976 Eleganza II 26’
> other toys:
> 93 Vette
> 84 Goldwing
>
> and gone but not forgotten
> 72 CB750 Chopper
> 96 Caprice Classic
> 34 Ford roadster
> 94 Fleetwood
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Wheel with Air Bag [message #273361 is a reply to message #273308] |
Mon, 09 March 2015 10:29 |
mild bill
Messages: 98
Registered: November 2014
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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If you want to use a wheel that came with an airbag, just leave the airbag disconnected. You have nothing to hook it up to anyway unless you installed the colum as well anyway. Yeah it will blow up if the coach is on fire but no different than the many vehicles out there that have broken clock springs rendering the airbag useless.
Just short the 2 airbag terminals.
[Updated on: Mon, 09 March 2015 10:30] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Wheel with Air Bag [message #273367 is a reply to message #273347] |
Mon, 09 March 2015 10:58 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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thesmith wrote on Mon, 09 March 2015 06:43Can I use a wheel from a more modern vehicle and simply remove the airbag? Nice modern wheel no liability issue (or at least less)
I know they are not things to play around with....but surely any half competent mechanic knows how to do that safely.
Yes you can but the airbag module usually includes the decorative part that you see--so it would look pretty ugly with the module missing.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Wheel with Air Bag [message #273368 is a reply to message #273361] |
Mon, 09 March 2015 11:00 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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mild bill wrote on Mon, 09 March 2015 09:29If you want to use a wheel that came with an airbag, just leave the airbag disconnected. You have nothing to hook it up to anyway unless you installed the colum as well anyway. Yeah it will blow up if the coach is on fire but no different than the many vehicles out there that have broken clock springs rendering the airbag useless.
Just short the 2 airbag terminals.
That will work just fine.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Wheel with Air Bag [message #273375 is a reply to message #273368] |
Mon, 09 March 2015 11:56 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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On an air bag steering wheel it would appear that the area between the
spokes of the steering wheel would interfere with the line of sight of the
dash gauges. I would prefer the mid 80's wheel that the lower spokes
allowed an open area of 200 degrees and more between the radius of the
wheel.
On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 10:00 AM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
> mild bill wrote on Mon, 09 March 2015 09:29
>> If you want to use a wheel that came with an airbag, just leave the
> airbag disconnected. You have nothing to hook it up to anyway unless you
>> installed the colum as well anyway. Yeah it will blow up if the coach is
> on fire but no different than the many vehicles out there that have broken
>> clock springs rendering the airbag useless.
>> Just short the 2 airbag terminals.
>
> That will work just fine.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Wheel with Air Bag [message #273382 is a reply to message #273377] |
Mon, 09 March 2015 12:37 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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thesmith wrote on Mon, 09 March 2015 10:17So other than GMC Van wheels, are there any other aftermarket steering wheel that fit?
Pete
Just about any GM steering wheel that doesn't have an air bag . After market market wheel with a GM adapter will fit no problem . I have a momo wheel on mine that came off a Cadillac column that a friend removed from his 33 ford coupe.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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