| ONAN wiring [message #271420] |
Sun, 08 February 2015 15:57  |
Luvn737s
Messages: 1106
Registered: June 2007
Karma: 2
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I know you electrical wizards got this down cold, but me and AC power have never gotten along too well.
Onan Emerald 3 6500 gasoline
Coach has Red, Black, White, Green wires (1 each). Genset has 2 Black, 2 White and Green. Green is no problem. I want 120V from the genset. I would imagine 2 Whites join the coach White, but what about Red and Black? I don't need the 240V capability. Any advice?
Randy
1973 26' Painted Desert
Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
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| Re: ONAN wiring [message #271429 is a reply to message #271420] |
Sun, 08 February 2015 18:35  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
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Luvn737s wrote on Sun, 08 February 2015 16:57I know you electrical wizards got this down cold, but me and AC power have never gotten along too well.
Onan Emerald 3 6500 gasoline
Coach has Red, Black, White, Green wires (1 each). Genset has 2 Black, 2 White and Green. Green is no problem. I want 120V from the genset. I would imagine 2 Whites join the coach White, but what about Red and Black? I don't need the 240V capability. Any advice?
Randy,
There is a problem. Not insurmountable, but real none the less.
Your color set would say it is set up for 240.
Emerald IIIs came as both 120 and 240V output. Most, I was told, were convertible. The only online manual I can find http://hmcmotorhomes.homestead.com/files/2011_Manuals/Onan_Generator/Service-Manual/Onan_Serv_Manual_Pg_33-40_web.pdf
does not identify colors, but as numbers. If there are M-numbers on the leads, you are set.
You could start it and measure the voltage between leads and figure it out......
If your coach is a GMC fit interior, you could use it as 240.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: ONAN wiring [message #271470 is a reply to message #271420] |
Mon, 09 February 2015 05:42 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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Hook the two greens together.
Hook the three whites together.
Hook one black from the generator to the black in the coach
Hook the other black from the generator to the red in the coach.
You are done.
You do not care if the generator is 120 or 240 VAC the above wiring will work for both.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: ONAN wiring [message #271471 is a reply to message #271420] |
Mon, 09 February 2015 06:01 |
Luvn737s
Messages: 1106
Registered: June 2007
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Thanks. What keeps 240V from coming out of the outlets in this configuration?
Randy
1973 26' Painted Desert
Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
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| Re: ONAN wiring [message #271473 is a reply to message #271471] |
Mon, 09 February 2015 06:26 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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Oh boy, I'll try to explain this.
If it is a 240 volt generator, between the the two black wires on the generator there is 240 volts. Between either black wire and the white wire it is 120 volts. In your coach distribution panel (circuit breaker box), there is nothing hooked between the two black (or black and red) wires. So nothing in the coach will see 240 volts. Everything in the coach is hooked between a black or red wire and a white wire which is always 120 volts.
This the same thing that happens when you plug into 240 volt shore power.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] ONAN wiring [message #271479 is a reply to message #271473] |
Mon, 09 February 2015 07:22 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Yo Ken,
Remember the old adage "one picture is worth a thousand words?" Well here's hundreds of pictures! :-)
Tiny URL: http://tinyurl.com/k43uhtf
Full URL:
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=120+vac+wiring+vs+240+vac+wiring&espv=2&biw=1024&bih=681&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa= X&ei=wrPYV
LbsLouA8gX8rYJI&ved=0CCgQsAQ
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Burton
Oh boy, I'll try to explain this.
If it is a 240 volt generator, between the the two black wires on the generator there is 240 volts. Between either black wire and
the white wire it is 120 volts. In your coach distribution panel (circuit breaker box), there is nothing hooked between the two
black (or black and red) wires. So nothing in the coach will see 240 volts. Everything in the coach is hooked between a black or
red wire and a white wire which is always 120 volts.
This the same thing that happens when you plug into 240 volt shore power.
--
Ken
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: ONAN wiring [message #271519 is a reply to message #271420] |
Mon, 09 February 2015 15:33 |
Luvn737s
Messages: 1106
Registered: June 2007
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SHE'S ALIVE!!!
A great big thanks to Ken, Matt, Mike and Mark here in AZ and Rob down-under for their guidance. I had my doubts when my Craigslist Onan showed up just before Christmas, but it runs smoothly and quietly and carries the load. AC output is between 115-123 VAC and the governor seems to do a good job of keeping it steady.
Randy
1973 26' Painted Desert
Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] ONAN wiring [message #271524 is a reply to message #271479] |
Mon, 09 February 2015 16:01 |
Chris Tyler
Messages: 458
Registered: September 2013
Location: Odessa FL
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"red wire and a white wire which is always 120 volts.
This the same thing that happens when you plug into 240 volt shore power. "
--
Ken
Do you still have a ground with a 3 prong [30 amp] plug on 240v? Or does it matter?
Should it be a 4 wire [50 amp?}
I have thought about putting a 240 outlet out at my well service box for welding in the driveway. It would also be a handy place to plug the GMC in as well on occasion if this can be done
76 Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] ONAN wiring [message #271572 is a reply to message #271524] |
Tue, 10 February 2015 04:01 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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Chris Tyler wrote on Mon, 09 February 2015 16:01
"red wire and a white wire which is always 120 volts.
This the same thing that happens when you plug into 240 volt shore power. "
--
Ken
Do you still have a ground with a 3 prong [30 amp] plug on 240v? Or does it matter?
Should it be a 4 wire [50 amp?}
I have thought about putting a 240 outlet out at my well service box for welding in the driveway. It would also be a handy place to plug the GMC in as well on occasion if this can be done
I'm not sure I understand your question and what you want to do.
That said if you have a 240 volts appearance at that well and want to use it for something else I see a problem. How will you turn it off and on? Currently there is a well pressure switch doing that and you will only be able to weld when the pressure switch calls for the well to run. Most wells do not draw much current so the wire used is probably too thin to support a welder.
The Welder will have to be 220 because there is not normally a white neutral wire run to a well.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: ONAN wiring [message #271582 is a reply to message #271420] |
Tue, 10 February 2015 07:43 |
Chris Tyler
Messages: 458
Registered: September 2013
Location: Odessa FL
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My question is if I were to install an outlet at the junction box, could I plug in the GMC without a problem.
A 3 wire plug would be 2 hots and a neutral, right? So, is not having a ground an issue for the GMC?
If I run a 4 prong plug, that would be 2 hots, a neutral and ground?
I have 40 amp service to the well. I recently had a new submersible one put in. The old one had pretty heavy wire . Not sure about the new one, but its raining and cant look at it right now.
On the new installation there is a junction box with a disconnect ahead of the pressure switch. It would not be that hard to put an outlet in, in a weatherproof box.
Im not an electrician [obviously] and would be geting some qualified help if I do this. Im asking in terms of general feasability.
You are probably right regarding an arc welder, at least on the higher settings...although I run that on the dryer outlet with an heavy gauge extention cord currently without problems.
My MIG runs much better on the hgher voltage. I also have a TIG which Im just learning on, but doesnt pull that many amps.
76 Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] ONAN wiring [message #271584 is a reply to message #271572] |
Tue, 10 February 2015 07:46 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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Chris,
A couple of things that need to be emphasized (I now see reiterating KenB's
comments):
1. The 30A plug is strictly for 120 vac -- NO 240 vac. It does use
neutral and ground wires.
2. If your well is wired like mine, only 240 vac is available there -- NOT
120 vac. That is, there is no neutral wire to "center" the 240 to 120 vac
"split". Also, my pressure switch is inside the house on the storage tank,
so there's usually no power at the well. Even if your pressure switch is
at the well so you can connect before it, the wire probably won't support
much current.
Ken H.
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:01 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
> Chris Tyler wrote on Mon, 09 February 2015 16:01
>> "red wire and a white wire which is always 120 volts.
>>
>> This the same thing that happens when you plug into 240 volt shore
> power. "
>> --
>> Ken
>>
>> Do you still have a ground with a 3 prong [30 amp] plug on 240v? Or does
> it matter?
>> Should it be a 4 wire [50 amp?}
>>
>> I have thought about putting a 240 outlet out at my well service box for
> welding in the driveway. It would also be a handy place to plug the GMC
>> in as well on occasion if this can be done
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] ONAN wiring [message #271586 is a reply to message #271582] |
Tue, 10 February 2015 07:55 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
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IF your coach has the big 50A cable plug and socket combination, and nobody has screwed with the stock configuration, there should be NO PROBLEM using a STANDARD 50A 240V shore power connection.
As has been stated, a "normal" well 240V power is NOT a "split" (120-0-120) supply and is NOT compatible with the power input for the GMC.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
|[ ]~~~[][ ][]\
"--OO--[]---O-"
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 06:43:25 -0700
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: dtyler11@tampabay.rr.com
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ONAN wiring
>
> My question is if I were to install an outlet at the junction box, could I plug in the GMC without a problem.
> A 3 wire plug would be 2 hots and a neutral, right? So, is not having a ground an issue for the GMC?
> If I run a 4 prong plug, that would be 2 hots, a neutral and ground?
>
> I have 40 amp service to the well. I recently had a new submersible one put in. The old one had pretty heavy wire . Not sure about the new one, but
> its raining and cant look at it right now.
> On the new installation there is a junction box with a disconnect ahead of the pressure switch. It would not be that hard to put an outlet in, in a
> weatherproof box.
>
> Im not an electrician [obviously] and would be geting some qualified help if I do this. Im asking in terms of general feasability.
>
> You are probably right regarding an arc welder, at least on the higher settings...although I run that on the dryer outlet with an heavy gauge
> extention cord currently without problems.
> My MIG runs much better on the hgher voltage. I also have a TIG which Im just learning on, but doesnt pull that many amps.
> --
> 76 Glenbrook
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| Re: ONAN wiring [message #271609 is a reply to message #271582] |
Tue, 10 February 2015 10:15 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
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Chris Tyler wrote on Tue, 10 February 2015 08:43My question is if I were to install an outlet at the junction box, could I plug in the GMC without a problem.
A 3 wire plug would be 2 hots and a neutral, right? So, is not having a ground an issue for the GMC?
If I run a 4 prong plug, that would be 2 hots, a neutral and ground?
<Snip>
Chris,
To answer your first question as posted and shown above:
Yes, not having a ground in the receptacle would be dangerous.
The coach has no safety ground and without that getting passed along through the cable, there is the distinct potential for the coach chassis to become other than ground and that could be really bad and even deadly.
Answer to your second question:
If you can create a local ground for this box (like tying to a metal well casing), that could work.
Then you put a 14-50 in the box and you are both safe and done.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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