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Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #270822]

Fri, 30 January 2015 12:10

Husker92592

Messages: 137
Registered: August 2013
Location: Temecula ca

Karma: -4

Senior Member

To all,
I have all the "factory" wiring diagrams and quite frankly after all these years the electrical in the Gen compartment is messed up. I certainly don't have all the connections and switches that are factory and I am replacing my onan with a honda. does anyone out there have a diagram that shows what is needed? I have a new combiner/ charger what ever its called. I assume it takes the place of the "BUZZ" box. I read through most of these forums of how electrical in our coaches is bad. Is there a right way to install this generator wiring?

I also see folks putting house batteries up front , in the back with a start battery up front. with the coaches current configuration I don't see how this happens with out re-wiring. it also seems like alot of these electrical components are plug and play works like magic?

Is there a post somewhere that details how these "new" devices wire into our coaches?
thanks
Grant

1974 GMC Sequoia 26'

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Re: Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #270851 is a reply to message #270822]

Fri, 30 January 2015 21:01

Matt Colie

Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Husker92592 wrote on Fri, 30 January 2015 13:10

To all,
I have all the "factory" wiring diagrams and quite frankly after all these years the electrical in the Gen compartment is messed up. I certainly don't have all the connections and switches that are factory and I am replacing my onan with a honda. does anyone out there have a diagram that shows what is needed? I have a new combiner/ charger what ever its called. I assume it takes the place of the "BUZZ" box. I read through most of these forums of how electrical in our coaches is bad. Is there a right way to install this generator wiring?

I also see folks putting house batteries up front , in the back with a start battery up front. with the coaches current configuration I don't see how this happens with out re-wiring. it also seems like alot of these electrical components are plug and play works like magic?

Is there a post somewhere that details how these "new" devices wire into our coaches?
thanks
Grant

Grant,

Someone here can probably help you.
But first, you have to be clear.
OK you have a 74 Sequoia 23 or 26 ?
Nobody moves the house bank to the rear.
Does it have the house bank in the back now?
Why do you want to or has the Onan been removed.
Let's start there and then work.

Matt

Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: [GMCnet] Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #270855 is a reply to message #270851]

Fri, 30 January 2015 21:28

Rob

Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC

Karma: 3

Senior Member

I thought all three of these trays (at Applied) were designed to move the "house bank to the rear"?:

http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/767

http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/457

http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/461

That is - to the rear of the Onan in a 26'. My plan was to do that as well - with dual 6V GC batteries.

Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath

On 2015-01-30, at 7:01 PM, Matt Colie wrote:

> Nobody moves the house bank to the rear.
> Does it have the house bank in the back now?
> Why do you want to or has the Onan been removed.
> Let's start there and then work.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES
> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Re: Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #270862 is a reply to message #270822]

Sat, 31 January 2015 10:03

Rick Williams

Messages: 256
Registered: July 2004

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Grant

As you are learning, there are many variations of the house 12 volt wiring. My '78 is different than a '74 so I will not comment on what you might have. But as Matt pointed out, you need to supply the GMCnet with more information. You mentioned that you have a new "combiner/charger". You need to clarify what this unit is. The battery chargers are called converters. A separate combiner is available and it replaces the battery isolator. Your new device is probably a converter. I do not think that any of the upgrades are really "plug and play". You need a good understanding of what they accomplish to help you decide whether you need that upgrade. There is information on how to wire all of the various devices but because there are so many variables based on owner preferences and the year and model of the coach, it is nearly impossible to post a single reference to cover all of the variables. Let us know what you have at present and we can help you to decide what direction you want to go with the wiring. How you plan on using the coach also governs how you upgrade it.
How many batteries do you presently have?
Where are they located?

Rick

Rick Williams
Bliss, Michigan
1978 Eleganza II

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Re: Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #270873 is a reply to message #270851]

Sat, 31 January 2015 14:00

Matt Colie

Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Matt Colie wrote on Fri, 30 January 2015 22:01

Grant,

Someone here can probably help you.
But first, you have to be clear.
OK you have a 74 Sequoia 23 or 26 ?
Nobody moves the house bank to the rear. <= OOPS!
=> This was supposed to say - Nobody moves the house bank to the FRONT.
Does it have the house bank in the back now?
Why do you want to or has the Onan been removed.
Let's start there and then work.

Matt

Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #277572 is a reply to message #270873]

Sat, 09 May 2015 21:50

Husker92592

Messages: 137
Registered: August 2013
Location: Temecula ca

Karma: -4

Senior Member

Currently
It is "stock" for all intended purposes. The brown box doesn't work any more and I will have to replace it with something. I have purchased the alternator cable, and then some electrical componet that aids in charging at the isolator, but I have to gpfigure out how to connect this item up. The wiring next to my on an is cracked and I need to replace it, so here is where I am at. I still have not found out if I have this #10 wire running from the front to the back. I am also trying to figure out this " boost switch" on the dash. I understand that there is no right way to upgrade the coach but certainly don't know where to star either.

The item I bought to replace the brown buzz box is a 40 amp progressive dynamics converter charger. I have 26 foot Rv and this is where I am at. I am currently replacing my onanistic with a Honda .
I hope this helps?

1974 GMC Sequoia 26'

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Re: Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #277581 is a reply to message #277572]

Sun, 10 May 2015 06:26

midlf

Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)

Karma: 1

Senior Member

You could be referring to two different #10 wires from the "front to the back". As you have a '74 the OEM wiring had a #10 running from the front mounted aux battery, through a 50 amp breaker, back to the house fuse panel. The second one may or may not be there depending on how late or early your '74 was in the production run. That "second" #10 would go from the area of the house fuse fuse panel (can't remember right now exactly how) through a breaker or fuse, and connects to the Onan battery. This was changed as the Onan battery was charged by the onan and if the onan was not run often enough the onan battery went dead, thus the reason for that second #10. To make sure the onan battery was kept charged. This has down sides also. If very early that #10 was not installed by GM. If very late it was. After 41 years and several PO's there is no way to know for sure what you have except by looking. If you can bring it to my place, or send me airfare, I can take a look at it. (grin)

On a more serious note, hopefully someone out in your area of CA can take a look at it. Other wise just keep asking questions and checking things out as they are presented here.

Is the the electrical component you purchased for use at the isolator a "combiner"? If so that is a very easy connect that mref has a lot of info on his website, http://gmcmotorhome.info/list.html there is also a lot of info on the photo site.

The Boost switch controls a solenoid switch (relay) that connects the chassis (starter) battery with the house battery to give you a boost for starting, if needed. On your '74 this switch can be left in "boost", but don't do that as it could cause you to end up with two dead batteries. ON '75's and later this switch is spring loaded and has to be held on boost.

Sorry I can't help much with the Honda questions as I don't have one. However someone here will need to know the size in KW and the model number.

Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI

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Re: Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #277582 is a reply to message #277581]

Sun, 10 May 2015 07:03

Joe Weir

Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Quote:

ON '75's and later this switch is spring loaded and has to be held on boost.

Another example of how the specs are really guidelines to start from. My '76 Birchaven does not have a spring loaded switch... Did it leave the factory that way, or has it been switched out by a previous owner? After 39 years the case can be made it could have been either.

I would first start by physically mapping what you have. I solved a couple of mysteries in the electrical by taking a peek underneath and tracing the wires. My PO was a busy beaver.

Keep us posted on your progress. This is a great source of support. Unfortunately, the charging system has a lot of "it depends" answers.

76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center... Columbia, SC.

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Re: Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #277583 is a reply to message #277582]

Sun, 10 May 2015 07:51

tphipps

Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL

Karma: 9

Senior Member

Reading your request, it appears that you have 4 questions;
1. Buzz Box replacement.
2. Battery Combiner.
3. House Battery.
4. Honda ev6010 install.

1. Buzz box is pretty straight forward. Remove old one and wire new one in it's place. No changes are needed to the wiring of the coach. You might look at the location and see if you can free up some space, as the new battery charger/converter is much smaller than the Buzz Box. I recommend that you do not add longer leads to the charger.
2. Battery Combiner. Reading your initial message, I don't think that you have a combiner. But, if you do, follow the instructions from Mr. Erf, and wire it across the OEM installed battery isolator. Takes at least 5 minutes.
3. Most OEM GMC's have a house battery somewhere, you just need to locate it. It is probably up front with your engine battery. Moving the house battery to the rear is doable. Requires a very long run of #10 or heavier wire, if you do not have this run currently in your coach. The referenced battery trays allow for an easy installation of a battery in the generator compartment. They have a very nice slide out function for much easier maintenance. However, if you are going to install a battery in that location, the Honda may not fit. Honda is very specific about clearances around the ev family of gensets. Since the Honda draws all of it's cooling air from the end of the genset that would be closest to the proposed battery area, this may not be a great idea. The Honda draws cooling air in from the fan, across the body of the genset and exhausts the heated air down.
4. Honda installation. First download the Honda manuals on bdub's site. The complete Honda manual and installation guide is located there. There is also a file with the Honda ev6010 mounting plate on it. Print it out, it does not print in a 1:1 ratio, but all the physical measurements are there. I suggest making a template first and seeing the fit in the compartment. You must allow for at least 1" of clearance around the sides of the Honda for cooling. Frankly, you can move the clearance on the front end of the genset to about 2" and off the back wall of the genset compartment by at least 1.5". Just for information, both the Honda ev6010 and ev4010 are within an inch of exactly the same size. The Honda will not slide out without a mount being built for it. Jim Bounds has successfully designed and built a slide out for the Honda's. One thing that I like abut his slide out is the use of steel mesh for the floor - guarantees that all the hot air flows out. None of the Honda Stock Muffler systems will work with a no-sliding genset. I had a custom muffler shop install the muffler for my current Honda.
The Onan mounts and slides must be removed.

I hope this helps, just do one thing at a time and it will be easy.

Tom, MS II

2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552 KA4CSG

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Re: Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #277585 is a reply to message #270822]

Sun, 10 May 2015 08:42

GeorgeRud

Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL

Karma: 0

Senior Member

I have the sliding stainless battery mount in my coach and highly recommend it due to the ease of installing and servicing batteries, but don't install it yet. I think all of your projects are individual and should be attacked as such.

If your current generator is working and in place, you can replace the buzz box easily, then test the system for proper functioning before moving on. If you do not have a currently functioning generator, I'd recommend fitting the Honda into the compartment first, then work on moving the battery tray if there is adequate clearance. The combiner up front is an easy replacement, but if you do everything at once and things go wrong, you have too many variables to diagnose. If you stick with one at a time and then test it for proper function, it will make more sense.

Enjoy your project in good health!

George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach

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Re: Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #277634 is a reply to message #270822]

Mon, 11 May 2015 08:27

jhbridges

Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga

Karma: -74

Senior Member

If your coach was built as a Transmode - like mine - the BOOST switch is not a spring return - it stays where you put it. Also, the turn signals work at all times on Transmodes, not just with the key on. It is somewhat easier to end up with flat batteries in a Transmode than it is in a Motorhome.

--johnny

Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

[Updated on: Mon, 11 May 2015 08:28]

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Re: [GMCnet] Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #277655 is a reply to message #277582]

Mon, 11 May 2015 10:33

Rob

Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC

Karma: 3

Senior Member

The Birchaven started life as a Transmode, so the boost switch was not spring loaded from the factory.

Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath

On 2015-05-10, at 5:03 AM, Joe Weir wrote:

> Quote:
>> ON '75's and later this switch is spring loaded and has to be held on boost.
>
>
> Another example of how the specs are really guidelines to start from. My '76 Birchaven does not have a spring loaded switch... Did it leave the
> factory that way, or has it been switched out by a previous owner? After 39 years the case can be made it could have been either.
>
> I would first start by physically mapping what you have. I solved a couple of mysteries in the electrical by taking a peek underneath and tracing the
> wires. My PO was a busy beaver.
>
> Keep us posted on your progress. This is a great source of support. Unfortunately, the charging system has a lot of "it depends" answers.
> --
> 76 Birchaven - New engine, trans, aluminum radiator, brakes, airbags, fuel lines, seats, upholstery, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were
> really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
> Columbia, SC.
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Rob - Victoria, BC - 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath

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Re: Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #277669 is a reply to message #277634]

Mon, 11 May 2015 14:39

roy1

Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Johnny Bridges wrote on Mon, 11 May 2015 06:27

If your coach was built as a Transmode - like mine - the BOOST switch is not a spring return - it stays where you put it. Also, the turn signals work at all times on Transmodes, not just with the key on. It is somewhat easier to end up with flat batteries in a Transmode than it is in a Motorhome.

--johnny

For some reason the directionals were operating that way on my 76 glenbrook. I wound up modifying the circuit and adding a second flasher several years ago. I couldn't handle the fact they worked with the key removed

Roy Keen Minden,NV 76 X Glenbrook

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Re: Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #277679 is a reply to message #277669]

Mon, 11 May 2015 17:12

tphipps

Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL

Karma: 9

Senior Member

Speaking of flashers, anyone who has changed to LED's, changed the flasher? Mine flashes very rapidly, no bulbs are out. I expect that it might be because of the low current draw of the LED tail lights. Looked at flashers at Auto Zone, but they had many choices.
Any help out there.
Get over it, I'm talking about lights.
Tom, MS II

2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552 KA4CSG

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Re: Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #277680 is a reply to message #277679]

Mon, 11 May 2015 17:50

Bob de Kruyff

Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ

Karma: 1

Senior Member

tphipps wrote on Mon, 11 May 2015 16:12

Speaking of flashers, anyone who has changed to LED's, changed the flasher? Mine flashes very rapidly, no bulbs are out. I expect that it might be because of the low current draw of the LED tail lights. Looked at flashers at Auto Zone, but they had many choices.
Any help out there.
Get over it, I'm talking about lights.
Tom, MS II

You can buy electronic flashers designed just for led lighting. I think all of the local auto places sell them.

Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ

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Re: Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #277701 is a reply to message #277680]

Mon, 11 May 2015 21:02

tphipps

Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL

Karma: 9

Senior Member

The auto stores have 3 different LED flashers, with our style bases. They had no further info on them, as to vehicle, etc. Just hoping that someone here had figured out the one that will actually work.
Tom, MS II

2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552 KA4CSG

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Re: Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #277708 is a reply to message #277585]

Mon, 11 May 2015 23:19

Husker92592

Messages: 137
Registered: August 2013
Location: Temecula ca

Karma: -4

Senior Member

Thanks George ,
I am getting rid of my working onanistic due to noise and efficiency, reliability. So the Honda is going in somehow. I know it may be blasphemy but definitely need something quieter.

1974 GMC Sequoia 26'

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Re: Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #277710 is a reply to message #277583]

Mon, 11 May 2015 23:25

Husker92592

Messages: 137
Registered: August 2013
Location: Temecula ca

Karma: -4

Senior Member

Not sure about the combiner, I have looked at the wiring diagram and it doesn't make sense. At least maybe I am hesitant because it doesn't seem logical to wire it up as it says in the diagram. Gun shy I suppose.

1974 GMC Sequoia 26'

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Re: Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #277711 is a reply to message #277583]

Mon, 11 May 2015 23:33

Husker92592

Messages: 137
Registered: August 2013
Location: Temecula ca

Karma: -4

Senior Member

Tom,
A few folks have said that I don't have this item due to it didn't come out until 75. But I am still trying to find out what model I have for a 1974. I know the original color was green. I know I have the boost switch which says that I can get boost from the rear house battery. Someone added additional battery storage up front with no wiring to attach them, so I may be over thinking it. First I need to find this no 10 wire if ey both exist. Next I need to figure out the rats, wiring ,nest in he gen compartment. Worse case I rip out the wires and start over and see which breakers pop. I do t have the solinoid on the back wall of the gen compartment either. I suppose these things get removed when hey break and there are no parts to replace them. My issue is GM DESIGNED the coach a certain way and now it's been modified. This is my problem , taking a chance to burn the coach down because I don't know what is supposed to go where. Time will tell. Frustrating it is.
Thanks

1974 GMC Sequoia 26'

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Re: Generator Compartment Re-wiring [message #277730 is a reply to message #277711]

Tue, 12 May 2015 12:13

tphipps

Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL

Karma: 9

Senior Member

Look on the left hand side of the engine compartment, up near the top. You should see a finned block with three bolts on it. This is a OEM battery isolater. Center lead is from the alternator, one outside lead is the engine battery, the other is the house battery. Unless there is another device connecting the two outside leads, you do not have a combiner installed.
General purpose of the battery isolator is to separate the two batteries, so that using the house battery to exhaustion does not drain the engine battery. You do want to get home.
The boost switch, on the dash, combines the two batteries, to enable starting with a weak engine battery. In some cases, it can be used to allow the house battery to substitute for the engine battery, if the engine battery has failed. This requires a constant contact solenoid. Early coaches had a momentary contact solenoid. I am not sure when the change over occurred.
If the factory installed your house battery in the rear of the coach, you do have a heavy wire going to it. If a P.O. did it, you will have to find it if just to satisfy your knowledge.
Interesting that an additional battery was installed up front with no wiring. Forgotten project? Needs investigating.
Tom, MS II

2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552 KA4CSG

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