| 50hz to 60hz need some help here [message #270388] |
Sun, 25 January 2015 16:51  |
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Loffen
Messages: 1087
Registered: August 2013
Location: Norway
Karma: 1
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As I am living in Europe I have 230volt 50hz and I would like to keep the coach original and keep the 110volt 60hz inside, to get my land line down from 230v to 110v is no problem but after searching around it looks like getting the 50hz up to 60hz is near impossible.
Sure I could rewire it for 230v 50hz, but due to the high prices on items like AC/Heat pump and generator I would not go that way if I can avoid it and I would like to keep my Onan.
By the way the AC/Heat pump is the only item that will need 60hz, the fridge will be a Norcold and that is happy with 50hz.
So I guess it all comes down to that I really need to find a solution for the AC/Heat pump, any ideas ?
1973 23' # 1848 Sky Blue Glacier called Baby Blue and a 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Green,
And sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel
in Norway
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| Re: 50hz to 60hz need some help here [message #270395 is a reply to message #270389] |
Sun, 25 January 2015 17:41  |
Otterwan
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
Karma: 0
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So if I understand correctly you want to keep all the original 120V/60Hz items and run them on shore power that is 230V/50Hz. When not on shore power you would just use the Onan. Could you use a 230V/50Hz power supply to generate 12 volts and then a 120V/60Hz inverter to run the 120V/60Hz items?
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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| Re: 50hz to 60hz need some help here [message #270400 is a reply to message #270388] |
Sun, 25 January 2015 19:14 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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One approach would be to front end that AC unit with a 3000 watt peak, 2000 watt continuous duty inverter. Then you would also need about 140 amps of converter at 12 volts to keep up with the 12 volt into the inverter. The battery(s) would buffer any peak demand. I do not know if the PD converter units are both 120 and 240, but either way that is going to be one large converter or pair of converters.
The other choice is to convert the coach to 240v 50 cycle and get a new AC unit and generator.
Neither approach is not going to be cheap.
The water heater could easily be switched to run on either voltage. It would just take a little longer to warm up on 120 volts.
We haven't addressed a microwave oven load if you have one.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: 50hz to 60hz need some help here [message #270410 is a reply to message #270388] |
Sun, 25 January 2015 20:55 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Forget the inverter route. too much loss, and way too much 12VDC current to be safe. You would need a much larger 12V charger.
Contact the MFG of the AC unit and see if the unit is 50Hz tolerant. More than likely, the fan motor will run fine and the compressor may need different start and run caps.
One other option, as since you are in Europe, you may only need to run one roof air at a time. If that is the case, replace one with a 50Hz 220VAC Unit and run that on shore power and run the 60Hz unit with the Onan.
If you only have one roof air, then just add one for EU power.
The water heater should be fine too, but make sure it is downline of the transformer.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: 50hz to 60hz need some help here [message #270412 is a reply to message #270410] |
Mon, 26 January 2015 00:12 |
appie
Messages: 902
Registered: April 2013
Location: denmark
Karma: 2
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My PO. Imported a 110v ac from the us 😁 he then installed a 220 to 110 inverter to run it. ( no idearvwhy he did not buy a 220 ac)
I rewired the whole coach, but did not want to invest in a new ac. So I kept the old inverter. Seems to work fine. Although I hardly use it becourse it is so loud.
I heard som onan can be made to produce 220 ?
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
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| Re: 50hz to 60hz need some help here [message #270413 is a reply to message #270412] |
Mon, 26 January 2015 00:31 |
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Loffen
Messages: 1087
Registered: August 2013
Location: Norway
Karma: 1
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Only one AC unit and no microwave (That could be 220volt)
Last summer I did find out the running the AC unit on the Onan was great when driving and would like to have that option.
I have talked to the manufacture of the AC compressor, here is his answer ;
Hi, Espen:
We asked our motor design guys to comment on your questions.
Their comments are copied below.
Normally, when you run a 60 Hz motor on 50 Hz, its temperature goes up, which could trip the external overload protector.
When our engineer ran his simulation, he used 100V-50Hz as the input power supply.
Can your transformer provide 100V (96V is ideal), instead of 115V?
He also commented on using a frequency inverter to convert your 50 Hz power to 60 Hz.
Remember that when you run a 60 Hz compressor on 50 Hz, its capacity is reduced by 17% (1 50/60).
If you have additional questions on this, please contact us.
Best Regards, John
Running a 60 Hz compressor on 50 Hz
This was developed for 115/60, but I looked at the design file and tried it with 100/50. The flux density does indeed go up as expected (to maintain the same flux, you need the same volts/hz which would require a voltage of 96/50). However, it is still below other released models on RG, so it could work.
Converting 50 Hz power to 60 Hz
Many inverters with three phase out have facilities for connecting single phase to two of the three output terminals. They are not particularly cheap. The brands I'm familiar with are from AC-Tech and Yaskawa. The Yaskawa V1000 2.2 KW is about $250; I couldn't confirm whether it had the single phase output option. I know that the AC Tech drives normally do. You're looking at taking the 50 Hz to 60 Hz correct? It may depend on the operating range, but it is normally difficult for an inverter to have an output voltage greater than the input. If the input is indeed 115V/50 Hz, than they would probably be able to invert it to something close to 115V/60 Hz.
1973 23' # 1848 Sky Blue Glacier called Baby Blue and a 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Green,
And sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel
in Norway
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| Re: [GMCnet] 50hz to 60hz need some help here [message #270417 is a reply to message #270415] |
Mon, 26 January 2015 05:31 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Online or Double Conversion UPS’s are really not going to like a motor start, and the capacitor start peaks that go with it.
I’ve tried it with Liebert units, and at 3500VA, it would dump the load with about a 18,000 BTU air conditioner.
I don’t understand the need for 60 hz, other than running a motor or two.
Dolph
DE N8JPC
Wheeling, West Virginia
1977 GMC 26' Palm Beach
TZE167V100820
1976 GMC 26' Donor Coach
TZE166V101610
> On Jan 26, 2015, at 6:17 AM, Trevor Pordage wrote:
>
> I am trying to do exactly the same thing as i have not actually gotten around to doing this it is still in the theory stage. but i will let you know
> what i have been thinking and let the brains trust pull it apart
>
> in australia we only have access to a 15 amp 240 volt 50hz supply some parks will supply you with 2 of these 15 amp supplies
> i plan on separating the ac onto its own separate supply and the rest of the coach on the other.
>
> i have sourced a 3kva 240 to 110 volt isolation transformer as used on brittish building sites for $50.00 problem is it has a 25 percent duty cycle
> i will use this to supply my general power and monitor its load and hopefully we wont exceed the 25 percent.
>
> as for the A/C i think i will replace it with one of the units rob pointed too otherwise i have been thinking about something like a online double
> conversion ups like http://www.tripplite.com/on-line-double-conversion%20ups-3kva-2u-rack-tower-100v-110v-115v-120v-127v-nema-outlets~SU3000RTXL2U/ if
> looking at a UPS to achieve your frequency conversion it is important to look at the specs as some of them sync the output freq to the input freq.
> the trip lite one i linked to appears to be freq independant
>
> link to ebay
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tripp-Lite-SmartOnLine-SU3000RTXL2U-UPS-AC-100-110-115-120-127-SU3000RTXL2U-/400834080844?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5 d5392b04c
> --
> Trevor
> Brisbane Australia
> Siesta Koala 76 Edgemont (old Bobby Moores)
> 71 Cadillac Eldo Convert
> 58 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham Project
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] 50hz to 60hz need some help here [message #270420 is a reply to message #270417] |
Mon, 26 January 2015 06:51 |
appie
Messages: 902
Registered: April 2013
Location: denmark
Karma: 2
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Ofcourse. I should have said transformer. It is the ac that is so load. I can only use it when I am not in
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
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| Re: [GMCnet] 50hz to 60hz need some help here [message #270424 is a reply to message #270422] |
Mon, 26 January 2015 08:21 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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My 2 cents, the 60 cycle is a function of the 1,800 rpm of the Onan, running under load.
It seems there is no inexpensive way to accomplish what you desire.
Any "men's malls" in Europe that you could easily access and grab a European Spec A/C unit?
Would be easy enough to wire one A/C to the Onan for road usage, and have a separate line for the 220v/50c shore power to roof air. Avion did a dedicated line to the rear roof air. Others did also.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: 50hz to 60hz need some help here [message #270442 is a reply to message #270388] |
Mon, 26 January 2015 11:28 |
77PBFinland
Messages: 31
Registered: March 2014
Location: Finland
Karma: 1
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Our plan was first keep all original gadgets and run those with Onan and 230v > 110v converter from land line.
First one that chances our plans was Finnish inspector. When we were doing registration, he doesnt approve original 110v inastallations and LPG system without european installation certificate, which nobady will write.
First we only remowed and covered all 110v apliances and remowed lpg-tank, lines, heater and original range and installed temporary cooker.
We got plates for coach and after first season we knew better what we want and need:
Onan is now remowed with all 110v sockets, fusebox, buzzbox,central vacuum and wires we could reach.
We installed all new land line wires and fusebox with security switch and C-Tech M300 charger.
There´s now new lpg-lines with valves, Dometic cooker, Trumatic Combi 6kw airheater with water boiler and 230v heater element (we took off original water heater too..)
In Finland we use exchance lpg-bottles which are now located in Onans place leftside storage(11kg and 5kg spare).
Where old lpg-tank was is now storage room foor barbegue and sidetent (we dont have awning).
I´m just makin a deal with local guy who has couple years old Dometic 230v roof ac he´s asking 400€ from it, new ones cost here up from 1500€, so old Duo-Therm seems to be one more leftover.
We dont roof ac often here, but plan was try to repair dash ac.
Rear facing couches were remowed also and right side cabinet is narrowed little, now theres 200cm x 140cm douple bed in rear.
With some other minor mods we also changed new kitchen and bathroom faucets, new kitchen desk is coming soon too and old stinky and sticky green carpet is now replaced with oak-laminate. Also installed new Par-max waterpump and filter with 2liter stainles expansion tank.
Havent measure weight of all leftover things but I think our GMC has loosen 300-500kg weight, we must adjust ride-height when taken back on road at spring.
We also hope that Norcold and Electro-Magic will survive over this season...
Espen, maybe this will not help you but at least confuses  ?
edit. That new converter (that cost too much $$$) is still on its way to Finland with lots öf spare parts, coach must be emptyed of all parts when it was shipped to Finland from Houston. Those were shipped lately (at least I was told to) from Los Angeles packed in roof storage pod which must be remowed too. If taht converter ever find its way to Finland it´s up for sale. Anybody seen one lonely storage pod floating somewhere on Atlantic Sea??
douple edit. Lenze, I would not believe that either without pics. I´m not handy with computers etc. and I´m in trouble to get pics transferred to computer from camera and kids phones, there has been some bug since one windows update, must have something done for it soon.
Jake
Jarkko Lampinen
`77 Palm Beach TZE167V100508
Finland Europe
[Updated on: Mon, 26 January 2015 12:11] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: 50hz to 60hz need some help here [message #270444 is a reply to message #270442] |
Mon, 26 January 2015 11:35 |
appie
Messages: 902
Registered: April 2013
Location: denmark
Karma: 2
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Jake. Pictures please
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
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