Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Light Wiring
| [GMCnet] Light Wiring [message #269172] |
Wed, 07 January 2015 21:24  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Is it Politically Correct for a EE to hate wiring???
Today, with nothing else pressing to do, I decided to complete the
conversion of the road lighting to LED's. Only the parking lights and the
tag light were still incandescent. Nothing fancy going on: I just
replaced the parking lights with plug-in LED "bulbs". Stood outside and
reached thru the driver's window to try the turn signals; they worked
fine. Then check the parking lights -- they worked fine.
The tag light was a bigger job. I don't think it had ever been touched
since May 76 when the coach was built. I had to tear out one of the
captive nuts holding the assembly in place. Then use a metal cutting disc
to cut off that captive nut and the two nuts holding the parts of the
assembly together. Everything was covered with sprayed foam, and the lense
was mostly covered in paint primer and other stuff (I don't know if the tag
has been illuminated during my 15 year ownership). After about an hour of
metal bending, scraping, wire brushing, washing, gluing and generally
remodelling the light, it was ready to re-install, with a Gooped in place
LED bulb.
Standing outside again, I turned the parking lights on and walked to the
rear. Sure 'nuff, the tag was nicely illuminated, so I continued around
and into the cockpit. That's where the fun began: BOTH turn signal
indicators were illuminated! Huh???
With the parking/driving lights ON, the turn signals don't work and their
indicators stay on. With the p/d lights OFF, the turn signals work fine.
With the turn signal LEDs replaced with bulbs, the right indicator is off
but the left one is on and only the right turn signal works. Removing the
LED tag light has no effect. DVM from each illuminated parking light to
ground shows no voltage drop, so it's apparently not a ground problem. I'm
already too short on hair to be scratching my head like this!
PC or not, I hate light wiring!!!
Ken H.
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Light Wiring [message #269186 is a reply to message #269172] |
Thu, 08 January 2015 01:33  |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Yes it is a ground problem, the parking lights are getting their ground through the turn signal filaments and that is powering the indicators from there. Remove the bulbs and check for the ground connection in the sockets.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
[Updated on: Thu, 08 January 2015 01:34] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Light Wiring [message #269187 is a reply to message #269172] |
Thu, 08 January 2015 01:38 |
Guy Lopes
Messages: 499
Registered: April 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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I'm sorry Ken, but by the time I read to the bottom of your email, I was
laughing out loud! Not AT you, but I could imagine being in your spot and
how I would have reacted. A video would have been priceless!
Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken
Henderson
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 7:24 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: [GMCnet] Light Wiring
Is it Politically Correct for a EE to hate wiring???
Today, with nothing else pressing to do, I decided to complete the
conversion of the road lighting to LED's. Only the parking lights and the
tag light were still incandescent. Nothing fancy going on: I just replaced
the parking lights with plug-in LED "bulbs". Stood outside and reached thru
the driver's window to try the turn signals; they worked fine. Then check
the parking lights -- they worked fine.
The tag light was a bigger job. I don't think it had ever been touched
since May 76 when the coach was built. I had to tear out one of the captive
nuts holding the assembly in place. Then use a metal cutting disc to cut
off that captive nut and the two nuts holding the parts of the assembly
together. Everything was covered with sprayed foam, and the lense was
mostly covered in paint primer and other stuff (I don't know if the tag has
been illuminated during my 15 year ownership). After about an hour of metal
bending, scraping, wire brushing, washing, gluing and generally remodelling
the light, it was ready to re-install, with a Gooped in place LED bulb.
Standing outside again, I turned the parking lights on and walked to the
rear. Sure 'nuff, the tag was nicely illuminated, so I continued around and
into the cockpit. That's where the fun began: BOTH turn signal indicators
were illuminated! Huh???
With the parking/driving lights ON, the turn signals don't work and their
indicators stay on. With the p/d lights OFF, the turn signals work fine.
With the turn signal LEDs replaced with bulbs, the right indicator is off
but the left one is on and only the right turn signal works. Removing the
LED tag light has no effect. DVM from each illuminated parking light to
ground shows no voltage drop, so it's apparently not a ground problem. I'm
already too short on hair to be scratching my head like this!
PC or not, I hate light wiring!!!
Ken H.
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Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Light Wiring [message #269189 is a reply to message #269172] |
Thu, 08 January 2015 05:29 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Ken, I have a similar problem with the Birchaven --the front clearance lights stay on. I pulled the harness off the headlight switch --STILL on. Prior to removing the switch, it was backfeeding the rear clearance lights and side markers. The only way I can kill the front clearance lights is to pull the fuse. Anyway, an old thread or two here point to plate light grounding as the source of ghost lighting.
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Light Wiring [message #269191 is a reply to message #269172] |
Thu, 08 January 2015 06:11 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Read here
http://gmcmotorhome.info/chassis.html#MARKER
Erf
On Wednesday, January 7, 2015, Ken Henderson wrote:
> Is it Politically Correct for a EE to hate wiring???
>
> Today, with nothing else pressing to do, I decided to complete the
> conversion of the road lighting to LED's. Only the parking lights and the
> tag light were still incandescent. Nothing fancy going on: I just
> replaced the parking lights with plug-in LED "bulbs". Stood outside and
> reached thru the driver's window to try the turn signals; they worked
> fine. Then check the parking lights -- they worked fine.
>
> The tag light was a bigger job. I don't think it had ever been touched
> since May 76 when the coach was built. I had to tear out one of the
> captive nuts holding the assembly in place. Then use a metal cutting disc
> to cut off that captive nut and the two nuts holding the parts of the
> assembly together. Everything was covered with sprayed foam, and the lense
> was mostly covered in paint primer and other stuff (I don't know if the tag
> has been illuminated during my 15 year ownership). After about an hour of
> metal bending, scraping, wire brushing, washing, gluing and generally
> remodelling the light, it was ready to re-install, with a Gooped in place
> LED bulb.
>
> Standing outside again, I turned the parking lights on and walked to the
> rear. Sure 'nuff, the tag was nicely illuminated, so I continued around
> and into the cockpit. That's where the fun began: BOTH turn signal
> indicators were illuminated! Huh???
>
> With the parking/driving lights ON, the turn signals don't work and their
> indicators stay on. With the p/d lights OFF, the turn signals work fine.
> With the turn signal LEDs replaced with bulbs, the right indicator is off
> but the left one is on and only the right turn signal works. Removing the
> LED tag light has no effect. DVM from each illuminated parking light to
> ground shows no voltage drop, so it's apparently not a ground problem. I'm
> already too short on hair to be scratching my head like this!
>
> PC or not, I hate light wiring!!!
>
> Ken H.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Light Wiring [message #269231 is a reply to message #269191] |
Thu, 08 January 2015 12:54 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
What I never told anybody here is that my father was a EE - Pre-WWII EE. He understood and could diagnose problems with old fire bottle stuff in a heartbeat. But, he would stand back and shout unfamiliar swear words when it came to working on things like the boat trailer lights that would go bonkers. He had non-language words he used to swear in front of us children. Well, out of desperation and without his right hand Simpson 260 in a strange port, he resorted to making and using a simple test light. You know what, that worked. Prior to this his cursing and swearing at "***** Low Impedance Circuits" was almost traditional.
The simple fact is that the best meter is the worst thing for this job. (If you look in the electrical locker in our coach you will find both a Fluke 77 (top for its day) and a simple high current test light.
I had a similar problem. In my case, the LEDs would not ground in the old GMC sockets. I was also on the verge of throwing things until I tried the diagnosis again but with the lenses open. This way I could try the ground on the lamp base....
Guess What was No **** Good.
The LED lamps did not make a good ground in the socket.
I have a dowel with the end split with a bandsaw cut and a piece Scotchbrite wedged in. I have this just for cleaning the sockets of boat trailer lights. So, I did the cleaning on the four lights of the GMC and then went to doing it again.
This was mostly good, but the right front light socket was not grounded to the reflector. I soldered a jumper into both front lights. But, I had to go back to incandescent bulbs because the LED flasher quit and the OE would not reliably flash with the LED.
So, I agree that it is probably a bad ground, you just have not found it yet.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Light Wiring [message #269250 is a reply to message #269172] |
Thu, 08 January 2015 19:00 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 07 January 2015 20:24Is it Politically Correct for a EE to hate wiring???
Today, with nothing else pressing to do, I decided to complete the
conversion of the road lighting to LED's. Only the parking lights and the
tag light were still incandescent. Nothing fancy going on: I just
replaced the parking lights with plug-in LED "bulbs". Stood outside and
reached thru the driver's window to try the turn signals; they worked
fine. Then check the parking lights -- they worked fine.
The tag light was a bigger job. I don't think it had ever been touched
since May 76 when the coach was built. I had to tear out one of the
captive nuts holding the assembly in place. Then use a metal cutting disc
to cut off that captive nut and the two nuts holding the parts of the
assembly together. Everything was covered with sprayed foam, and the lense
was mostly covered in paint primer and other stuff (I don't know if the tag
has been illuminated during my 15 year ownership). After about an hour of
metal bending, scraping, wire brushing, washing, gluing and generally
remodelling the light, it was ready to re-install, with a Gooped in place
LED bulb.
Standing outside again, I turned the parking lights on and walked to the
rear. Sure 'nuff, the tag was nicely illuminated, so I continued around
and into the cockpit. That's where the fun began: BOTH turn signal
indicators were illuminated! Huh???
With the parking/driving lights ON, the turn signals don't work and their
indicators stay on. With the p/d lights OFF, the turn signals work fine.
With the turn signal LEDs replaced with bulbs, the right indicator is off
but the left one is on and only the right turn signal works. Removing the
LED tag light has no effect. DVM from each illuminated parking light to
ground shows no voltage drop, so it's apparently not a ground problem. I'm
already too short on hair to be scratching my head like this!
PC or not, I hate light wiring!!!
Ken H.
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Ken--it is due to the front side marker lights. You may notice that they blink out of phase with the turn signals since they are conjoined in the wiring harness. You will know how to solve that.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Light Wiring [message #269264 is a reply to message #269260] |
Thu, 08 January 2015 21:01 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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Years ago, in a far distant universe.... Well maybe it was 1997/8, I used LED's on a bus conversion I built. It just about drove me crazy figuring why the flasher/turn signals refused to flash. I'd replaced every piece of wire in the bus so I KNEW (right) it couldn't/shouldn't be my problem. It was very early in LED use and not much knowledge was readily available. I finally figured it out and ended up using front incandescent bulbs for the front lights and all was well. I'm not sure there was even a flasher available in the day although they are now.
Fun to look back on now but a real pain at the time.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Light Wiring [message #269908 is a reply to message #269260] |
Sat, 17 January 2015 21:52 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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mild bill wrote on Thu, 08 January 2015 18:52I'm actually surprised you can get the turn signals to flash with both front and rear LEDs installed. Much of our equipment has sealed 4" truck lights flashing on all corners with lots of LED's and the Grote LED flasher won't even flash them unless the unit is running. We ran incadecant lights in the front for a while to provide enough load with the LED flasher. Found we had voltage bleed through the standard Grote electronic flasher as well but wouldn't flash.
Don't know who makes a better LED flasher but if I have LED lights and I'm sitting on the side of the road at night with a dead engine, I would like flashing lights.
http://www.grote.com/family/variable-load-electronic-led-flasher/?prodcat=flashers
http://www.grote.com/family/10-lamp-electromechanical-flasher/?prodcat=flashers
I think that is a different issue although it is a common problem as well. On the GMC and many GM vehicles of that era, the front side marker lights are in the turn signal circuit when the headlights are on. When the turn signal is lit, the marker light goes off, and when the turn signal is off, the marker light goes on because the turn signal circuit does through the marker light filament. It can drive you nuts when trying to debug a problem.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Light Wiring [message #269909 is a reply to message #269908] |
Sat, 17 January 2015 22:00 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Well, I found the solution to my problem: The turn signals work fine in
the daytime, so I just won't drive at night! Seems to me like a
well-engineered solution! :-)
Ken H.
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
> mild bill wrote on Thu, 08 January 2015 18:52
>> I'm actually surprised you can get the turn signals to flash with both
> front and rear LEDs installed. Much of our equipment has sealed 4" truck
>> lights flashing on all corners with lots of LED's and the Grote LED
> flasher won't even flash them unless the unit is running. We ran incadecant
>> lights in the front for a while to provide enough load with the LED
> flasher. Found we had voltage bleed through the standard Grote electronic
>> flasher as well but wouldn't flash.
>> Don't know who makes a better LED flasher but if I have LED lights and
> I'm sitting on the side of the road at night with a dead engine, I would
>> like flashing lights.
>>
>>
> http://www.grote.com/family/variable-load-electronic-led-flasher/?prodcat=flashers
>>
>>
> http://www.grote.com/family/10-lamp-electromechanical-flasher/?prodcat=flashers
>
>
> I think that is a different issue although it is a common problem as well.
> On the GMC and many GM vehicles of that era, the front side marker lights
> are in the turn signal circuit when the headlights are on. When the turn
> signal is lit, the marker light goes off, and when the turn signal is off,
> the marker light goes on because the turn signal circuit does through the
> marker light filament. It can drive you nuts when trying to debug a
> problem.
>
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Light Wiring [message #269912 is a reply to message #269910] |
Sun, 18 January 2015 00:09 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Or if it does break and leave you on the side of the highway drink in the front of the coach while you wait for assistance cause you will have a nice long stretch of sacrificial crumple zone behind you.
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
> On Jan 17, 2015, at 8:13 PM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
>
> ""Well, I found the solution to my problem: The turn signals work fine in
> the daytime, so I just won't drive at night! Seems to me like a
> well-engineered solution! :)
>
> Ken H.""
>
> A great solution :) As I get older, I hate driving at night. Besides, it interferes with my drinking time.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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