Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Wasted day (replacing heater hoses)
| Wasted day [message #268520] |
Tue, 30 December 2014 17:17  |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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Since my heater hose on the water pump was soft, I decided to replace it all. Bought a 50' box of 5/8 and 8- of 3/4. Removed the old hose to the hot water tank and noticed that the stuff that came out was not green but rusty. Didn't think much about it and went ahead and ran new hoses.
The 5/8 Tee was easy, pex Tee 2 bucks. The front Tee by the water pump is 3/4x3/4 with a 5/8 Tee. Mine was homemade...poorly. Very poorly...to the point I wouldn't reuse it. Spent some time running around Huntsville looking for something with no luck. I had decided to make something when it occurred to me that the fluid that came out of the hot water tank hoses should be the same as antifreese/water. Yep, plugged tight. Tried some air pressure but no luck. Pulled the hoses I had just run out and will run them direct from the block to the heater core with a manual shutoff.
Guess I won't be needing my Tees and cutoff valves. At least not until I have to replace the hot water heater (knock on wood).
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: Wasted day [message #268528 is a reply to message #268520] |
Tue, 30 December 2014 17:58  |
Ray R.
Messages: 26
Registered: December 2014
Location: Ladysmith, WI
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Thanks for the posting. I just bought an Edgemonte with water heater heated with the engine water. No way do I want a water heater with a heat exchanger in direct contact with engine antifreeze. If there is the slightest leak, glycol would do a real number on your kidneys. I can't believe that they would still be legal. Lots of coaches out there with his setup. Is anyone else concerned? As of now I plan to remove the water line to the engine and install a new water heater.
I believe home heating systems that have boilers that share domestic water and register water are required to use food grade antifreeze.
Ray R.
Ray R. 76 Edgemonte 26, 455. Refurbishing for fulltiming, Ladysmith, WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wasted day [message #268529 is a reply to message #268528] |
Tue, 30 December 2014 18:14 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Senior Member |
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Ray
There is nothing like water heated with free heat...
No one that I can recall has ever been concerned about this, what I
consider to be, bonus feature.
I guess you know where I stand...
Mike in NS
On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 7:58 PM, Raymond Radwanski
wrote:
> Thanks for the posting. I just bought an Edgemonte with water heater
> heated with the engine water. No way do I want a water heater with a heat
> exchanger in direct contact with engine antifreeze. If there is the
> slightest leak, glycol would do a real number on your kidneys. I can't
> believe
> that they would still be legal. Lots of coaches out there with his
> setup. Is anyone else concerned? As of now I plan to remove the water
> line to
> the engine and install a new water heater.
>
> I believe home heating systems that have boilers that share domestic water
> and register water are required to use food grade antifreeze.
> Ray R.
> --
> Ray R. 76 Edgemonte 26, 455. Refurbishing for fulltiming, Ladysmith, WI
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
I am not an alcoholic; alcoholics go to meetings.
I am a drunk; I go to parties !
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| Re: Wasted day [message #268530 is a reply to message #268520] |
Tue, 30 December 2014 18:28 |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726
Registered: May 2014
Location: Arlington, WA
Karma: -9
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Senior Member |
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Every single boat I build for Fluid Motion LLC (Ranger Tugs and Cutwater Boats) has the same setup as our coaches, 110 AC and an engine heat exchanger.
Even 37 years after my coach was built, the heat exchanger in a mobile water heater is still top technology.
There really is nothing like free hot water.
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wasted day [message #268538 is a reply to message #268528] |
Tue, 30 December 2014 19:41 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Ray,
I don't know the construction details of the all-electric heaters in the
GMC-fitted coaches. But the Atwood 6 g. in the BIrchaven (& Royale), has
only a single aluminum tube for the cooling system water; it's welded on
the outside of the water reservoir. With the reservoir of MUCH thicker
material than the tubing, I doubt there's ever been a case of mixing
liquids between the two.
Ken H.
On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 6:58 PM, Raymond Radwanski
wrote:
> Thanks for the posting. I just bought an Edgemonte with water heater
> heated with the engine water. No way do I want a water heater with a heat
> exchanger in direct contact with engine antifreeze. If there is the
> slightest leak, glycol would do a real number on your kidneys. I can't
> believe
> that they would still be legal. Lots of coaches out there with his
> setup. Is anyone else concerned? As of now I plan to remove the water
> line to
> the engine and install a new water heater.
>
> I believe home heating systems that have boilers that share domestic water
> and register water are required to use food grade antifreeze.
> Ray R.
> --
> Ray R. 76 Edgemonte 26, 455. Refurbishing for fulltiming, Ladysmith, WI
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wasted day [message #268543 is a reply to message #268528] |
Tue, 30 December 2014 20:37 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ray,
I agree with your concern, however, before you disconnect the engine cooling loop to your house water heater allow me to direct your
attention to Parts Book 78Z Pages 28-32 through 28-35. There you will find line drawings of both types of water heaters used in
GMC's.
In the first design you can see an item marked NSS in the lower left hand corner of the water heater enclosure; that is the engine
cooling loop as you can see it is a tube on the outside of the water heater.
In the second design note Keys 5, 13 & 14, those are the parts of the engine cooling loop. They are inside the water heater and you
can inspect those parts.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Raymond Radwanski
Thanks for the posting. I just bought an Edgemonte with water heater heated with the engine water. No way do I want a water heater
with a heat exchanger in direct contact with engine antifreeze. If there is the slightest leak, glycol would do a real number on
your kidneys. I can't believe that they would still be legal. Lots of coaches out there with his setup. Is anyone else concerned?
As of now I plan to remove the water line to the engine and install a new water heater.
I believe home heating systems that have boilers that share domestic water and register water are required to use food grade
antifreeze.
Ray R.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wasted day [message #268545 is a reply to message #268543] |
Tue, 30 December 2014 20:48 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Rob
On the 2nd design water heater I don’t really consider those parts “inside the water heater”. There is a “well” in the face of the water and the engine heater parts just slip into the well but they are still outside the water heater that holds the household water.
I there were to be a leak the antifreeze would just flow out of the well and would not intermix with the water in the heater.
Emery Stora
> On Dec 30, 2014, at 7:37 PM, Robert Mueller wrote:
>
> Ray,
>
> I agree with your concern, however, before you disconnect the engine cooling loop to your house water heater allow me to direct your
> attention to Parts Book 78Z Pages 28-32 through 28-35. There you will find line drawings of both types of water heaters used in
> GMC's.
>
> In the first design you can see an item marked NSS in the lower left hand corner of the water heater enclosure; that is the engine
> cooling loop as you can see it is a tube on the outside of the water heater.
>
> In the second design note Keys 5, 13 & 14, those are the parts of the engine cooling loop. They are inside the water heater and you
> can inspect those parts.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raymond Radwanski
>
> Thanks for the posting. I just bought an Edgemonte with water heater heated with the engine water. No way do I want a water heater
> with a heat exchanger in direct contact with engine antifreeze. If there is the slightest leak, glycol would do a real number on
> your kidneys. I can't believe that they would still be legal. Lots of coaches out there with his setup. Is anyone else concerned?
> As of now I plan to remove the water line to the engine and install a new water heater.
>
> I believe home heating systems that have boilers that share domestic water and register water are required to use food grade
> antifreeze.
>
> Ray R.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: Wasted day [message #268547 is a reply to message #268520] |
Tue, 30 December 2014 21:23 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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Mine appears to go in a 'hole' in the middle of the round tank. It's somewhat loose in that it moves in and out a bit. I did not try to remove it but does anyone know if it is removable? If so I can clean it out or make a replacement coil.
I'll take a look at the manual tomorrow. It's out in the coach.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wasted day [message #268548 is a reply to message #268545] |
Tue, 30 December 2014 21:37 |
Ray R.
Messages: 26
Registered: December 2014
Location: Ladysmith, WI
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Thanks for the information. I have not heard of a case where a water heater failed. They must have them designed so they cannot cross contaminate. I will check into the construction before I remove the engine loop. I have seen a fresh new 100 ft. coil of copper tubing used in the LP industry leak mid coil.
The coach is getting a new furnace because it has the original and I do not trust the heat exchanger after that many years. The furnace in my previous coach had a failed heat exchanger after about 20 years and needed replacement. I need to replace the fresh holding tank and lines so I will look at things closely during the rebuild.
I had rather error on the side of caution.
Side note: My fresh holding tank inlet and outlet fittings are cracked and the PO gunked them up and were used that way. I think the "Loctite" developed a glue for that type of plastic. Repairable or just replace?
Thanks again for the info.
Ray R.
Ray R. 76 Edgemonte 26, 455. Refurbishing for fulltiming, Ladysmith, WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wasted day [message #268552 is a reply to message #268547] |
Tue, 30 December 2014 22:29 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Kerry
Just pull it straight out. You might have to remove the hoses first as they tend to hold it in place.
Emery Stora
> On Dec 30, 2014, at 8:23 PM, Kerry Pinkerton wrote:
>
> Mine appears to go in a 'hole' in the middle of the round tank. It's somewhat loose in that it moves in and out a bit. I did not try to remove it
> but does anyone know if it is removable? If so I can clean it out or make a replacement coil.
>
> I'll take a look at the manual tomorrow. It's out in the coach.
> --
> Kerry Pinkerton
>
> North Alabama, near Huntsville,
>
> 77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, Manny Brakes, 1 ton, tranny also a 76 Eleganza to be re-bodied as an Art Deco car hauler
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: Wasted day [message #268570 is a reply to message #268547] |
Wed, 31 December 2014 11:35 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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My replacement tank didn't come with a loop for heating the tank. I just put a half loop of tubing under the tank and it works just fine been there for a long time. My lines are copper as they were free to me back when copper was cheep.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Wasted day [message #268590 is a reply to message #268547] |
Wed, 31 December 2014 19:42 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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kerry pinkerton wrote on Tue, 30 December 2014 21:23Mine appears to go in a 'hole' in the middle of the round tank. It's somewhat loose in that it moves in and out a bit. I did not try to remove it but does anyone know if it is removable? If so I can clean it out or make a replacement coil.
I'll take a look at the manual tomorrow. It's out in the coach.
Kerry,
I think Jim DeMaere makes a very good stainless steel replacement heat exchanger, or at least Arch used one. See the "Commodore's GMC" on GMCMotorhomedotcom. It looks pretty bulletproof. He also makes or made a stainless steel replacement heater and I think a stainless air tank. He is like you, apparently, a perfectionist working in metal. OTOH, I think rust from the engine might collect in the slowest flowing part of the cooling system, and you may just have to take it out, fill it half full of water, plug the ends, shake it up and pour. Repeat until tired. Or pour hydrochloric acid in....Forget that.
Jim DeMaere's phone number is on Bdub's site under vendors. He is in Lethbridge, Alberta just south of Picture Butte.
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
[Updated on: Wed, 31 December 2014 19:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Wasted day [message #268592 is a reply to message #268520] |
Wed, 31 December 2014 20:00 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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I was able to get the heat exchanger out this afternoon. I had to pry some of the sheet metal on the end away but once I did, it slid right out. I'll look into what it takes to get it cleared out and evaluate if it's still usable.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: Wasted day [message #269365 is a reply to message #268592] |
Sat, 10 January 2015 10:21 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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kerry pinkerton wrote on Wed, 31 December 2014 20:00I was able to get the heat exchanger out this afternoon. I had to pry some of the sheet metal on the end away but once I did, it slid right out. I'll look into what it takes to get it cleared out and evaluate if it's still usable.
Hey, Kerry,
What's the verdict on the water heater heat exchanger?
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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| Re: Wasted day [message #269366 is a reply to message #269365] |
Sat, 10 January 2015 12:01 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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cbryan wrote on Sat, 10 January 2015 10:21What's the verdict on the water heater heat exchanger?
I have not had a chance to do anything with it yet Carey.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: Wasted day [message #269368 is a reply to message #268520] |
Sat, 10 January 2015 12:11 |
Chris Tyler
Messages: 458
Registered: September 2013
Location: Odessa FL
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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I wonder if you could wrap an coil copper tubing around the outside of the tank under the insulation? May not be as efficient, but would eliminate the contamination potential.
Prob not worth doing unless you are going to pull the tank anyway.
76 Glenbrook
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| Re: Wasted day [message #269370 is a reply to message #268520] |
Sat, 10 January 2015 12:48 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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It's been said before but let me be clear, there is NO possibility of contamination with any of these heat exchangers. They ALL work by having either tubing wrapped OUTSIDE the tank or in a sleeve INTO the tank.
Unless the pressure tank fails AND the heat exchanger fails, there is no possibility of intermingling fluids and if that happens, you're going to have a lots and lots of puddles under the coach or on the floor.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: Wasted day [message #269461 is a reply to message #268520] |
Mon, 12 January 2015 11:09 |
paulb
Messages: 24
Registered: June 2013
Location: Lansdale PA
Karma: 1
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Junior Member |
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Ray - just for the record, I never drink or make coffee with coach water, I use plastic containers of Poland Spring for that. I use coach water for hand and dish washing, bathing, etc. WHen I have to change out the recirculating toilet I use a 5 gallon bucket and a hose from an available external water source. Just sayin'.
Bought a nice West Marine stainless heater in 2007, but I only use it for dry camping. I love the engine heat keeping the water hot, its invaluable to me. Coolant heated water stays hot for hours after you shut down. I take my showers after arriving at my destination.
Paul Bauerlein
'75 ex-Glenbrook
Lansdale, PA
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