Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket Profile (Adding to the knowledge Base)
| Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket Profile [message #267035] |
Wed, 03 December 2014 01:23  |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Some time ago, there was a discussion about Oil Cooler Adaptor Gaskets. Because a factory original part was no longer made and is not available, there have been a number of field fixes, adaptations, and repair possibilities discussed.
A question was raised about what the factory part measurements are and if they were available in any way. Doing some work on a local coach this winter I removed the Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket to repair a leak and found what I believe must be an original gasket with an original profile. After our discussions I was quite surprised at what I found.
I've measured the old gasket and present to you what I found. The old gasket had a Tee Profile with sharp edges and no evidence of extrusion or major distortion, therefore it represents pretty accurately, the shape that was originally installed. Fluctuations in actual measurements can be expected by the stresses of installation pressures.
This posting is simply sharing what I found and adding to the knowledge base.(as I promised)
Check out the following pictures.
Actual Photo
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/oil-filter-and-cooler/p56581-original-oil-cooler-adaptor-gasket.html
Measurements
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/oil-filter-and-cooler/p56584-gmc-oil-cooler-adaptor-gasket.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/oil-filter-and-cooler/p56602-factory-oil-cooler-adaptor-gasket-profile.html
Best Regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket Profile [message #267038 is a reply to message #267035] |
Wed, 03 December 2014 04:30  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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John,
Thanks!
I don't know about you but in all my years messing with cars, motorcycles, aircraft, test stands, and space hardware I have NEVER
seen anything like this!
I assume that the "T" sections sit outside the groove; do you happen to have an oil cooler adapter that you could install this
gasket in and photograph?
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: John Heslinga
Some time ago, there was a discussion about Oil Cooler Adaptor Gaskets. Because a factory original part was no longer made and is
not available, there have been a number of field fixes, adaptations, and repair possibilities discussed.
A question was raised about what the factory part measurements are and if they were available in any way. Doing some work on a
local coach this winter I removed the Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket to repair a leak and found what I believe must be an original gasket
with an original profile. After our discussions I was quite surprised at what I found.
I've measured the old gasket and present to you what I found. The old gasket had a Tee Profile with sharp edges and no evidence of
extrusion or major distortion, therefore it represents pretty accurately, the shape that was originally installed. Fluctuations in
actual measurements can be expected by the stresses of installation pressures.
This posting is simply sharing what I found and adding to the knowledge base.(as I promised)
Check out the following pictures.
Actual Photo
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/oil-filter-and-cooler/p56581-original-oil-cooler-adaptor-gasket.html
Measurements
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/oil-filter-and-cooler/p56584-gmc-oil-cooler-adaptor-gasket.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/oil-filter-and-cooler/p56602-factory-oil-cooler-adaptor-gasket-profile.html
Best Regards
--
John
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket Profile [message #267047 is a reply to message #267035] |
Wed, 03 December 2014 08:42 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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The VIN 7 86-87 Turbo Regal uses the "Baby Brother" stack on oil cooler. Exactly the same except smaller format to fit the PF47 or PF52 footprint instead of the PF24 or PF30 footprint used by Olds. The original gasket does NOT mimic the T profile. Makes me wonder. If you were no so confident that one was not squished, I would think it was. Do either of the Jims have any input on what was installed in Pontiac (or was it Lansing!!)
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket Profile [message #267056 is a reply to message #267035] |
Wed, 03 December 2014 09:55 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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I really believe that your gasket was just deformed by being squished in place over a long time. The original one was much like the oil filter gasket.
In fact I replace mine periodically with an oil filter gasket and the last time I did I found the old one to have deformed to look very much like your picture.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
> On Dec 3, 2014, at 12:23 AM, John Heslinga wrote:
>
> Some time ago, there was a discussion about Oil Cooler Adaptor Gaskets. Because a factory original part was no longer made and is not available,
> there have been a number of field fixes, adaptations, and repair possibilities discussed.
>
> A question was raised about what the factory part measurements are and if they were available in any way. Doing some work on a local coach this
> winter I removed the Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket to repair a leak and found what I believe must be an original gasket with an original profile. After
> our discussions I was quite surprised at what I found.
>
> I've measured the old gasket and present to you what I found. The old gasket had a Tee Profile with sharp edges and no evidence of extrusion or major
> distortion, therefore it represents pretty accurately, the shape that was originally installed. Fluctuations in actual measurements can be expected by
> the stresses of installation pressures.
>
> This posting is simply sharing what I found and adding to the knowledge base.(as I promised)
>
> Check out the following pictures.
>
> Actual Photo
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/oil-filter-and-cooler/p56581-original-oil-cooler-adaptor-gasket.html
>
> Measurements
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/oil-filter-and-cooler/p56584-gmc-oil-cooler-adaptor-gasket.html
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/oil-filter-and-cooler/p56602-factory-oil-cooler-adaptor-gasket-profile.html
>
>
> Best Regards
> --
> John and Cathie Heslinga
> 1974 Canyonlands 260
> 455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:73 LS,
> TC4W "Too Cool For Words"
> Retirement Projects Galore
> Edmonton, Alberta
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket Profile [message #267058 is a reply to message #267035] |
Wed, 03 December 2014 10:33 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Rob:
Like you and John, this really surprised me to find this shape. You are correct that the gasket tees sat outide the groove and played a role in the sealing. I did not take a picture of the seal in the adaptor groove because I though it would be redundant. Unfortunately I do not have a spare adaptor around to do it now. As I was documenting this part I regretted not measuring the groove and the rest of the adaptor sealing surface before reinstalling it. Could you please tell us what you measured? That never was written in the last threads.
Of course, I am not sure that this is what the original part looked like. My confidance level of that statement is not high. I'm only speculating at this point. It's interesting that nobody has ever stated what the original part should measure. However: when rubber is extruded due to squeeze out it generally has rounded uneven appearances. As you can see from the picture, this gasket looked like it was cast this way. Im simply forwarding what I found. Maybe someone who has actually seen this happen to their oversized oil filter gasket can give us their observations. My Oil Filter Ring Solution did not do do this.
After 40 years who knows what was done to that coach, the engine and transmission already are transplants from a newer coach (403 in a 1973 coach) however they were simply exchanged so it is conceivable that the gasket may never have been changed.
Hmmmmm?
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket Profile [message #267169 is a reply to message #267035] |
Fri, 05 December 2014 00:55 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Rob:
I know you started it earlier, but I just wanted to say what a nice compilation and comparison of the different Oil Cooler Gaskets solutions on the photo site. I especially like that you used the same views for each option and showing them in use. I think the album is a great reference. You had mentioned that you will provide some measurements. May I suggest: when you do return home, adding the measurements that you found into the text of some of the picture descriptions rather than another forum post, they would really add to the album's value. Of course, that is what I love most about our photo site.
Your photo of the highly distorted tee shape gasket is what I would have expected from a cold flow of the rubber, and that is why I had suggested that my sample MIGHT be something different. However, given that Emery has suggested that he has seen his gasket extrude the same way, I highly suspect that the only difference between the two may very well be simply the amount of torque applied. I mentioned that the flow did not happen when I used an oil filter ring, However: I used a significantly lower torque when using that ring. (Only slightly more than the amount that you would use when installing the filter itself.) (It did not leak by the way)
I did bring the example I found forward for it's Hmmmmmmm Factor and it still intreagues me. My ultimate thought however, is that the whole thing is really quite moot, given that the Parker Hannifin O ring is a very Elegant solution to the problem in the end anyway.
I hope that Jim K will order in a supply of the O Rings, put the item in the catalog, and recommend it's use. Even giving it the same part number as GM uses, will avoid confusion. While I've used the Dorman solution, I will be going to my local Sealing Solution supplier, to find it, or an equivilent for the next Job. (I've run out of Dorman Seals)
I've looked at your Package label Photo, However it does not have measurements and size specifications.
Can you also provide the infomation that you have on that O-Ring (Diameter, Thickness, Material, Cross section). I will need that information if they cannot cross reference that product number.
I promise to share any information I find to add to the Knowlwedge Base
Best Regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket Profile [message #267173 is a reply to message #267035] |
Fri, 05 December 2014 01:52 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Rob:
Forget about the Hannifin O-Ring Specifications. I found them.
Here they are:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/oil-filter-and-cooler/p56619-hannifin-2-230-o-ring-specs.html
I edited out all the other sizes, and only highlighted the proper one.
Best Regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
[Updated on: Fri, 05 December 2014 01:55] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket Profile [message #267241 is a reply to message #267058] |
Sat, 06 December 2014 17:23 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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John,
I've looked through all the folders on my PC regarding "oil" and I can't find any emails to or from the Parker engineer regarding
the measurements of the groove all I can find is the specification number for the o-ring. Unfortunately I am in Sydney and the
adapter is in Houston. I'll keep looking.
There is no exploded view of the oil filter / oil cooler adapter in the Parts Book 78Z there is only a list of parts under Figure
8.009 Filter - Oil on page 8-11. The part number given is 6436950 - Gasket. HOWEVER if you look at MM-7525, Page 6A-26, Figure 4 -
Oil Filter; note that the gasket between the Oil Filter Base and Adaptor has a SQUARE cross section! Seems to me that if was round
the artists would have drawn it ROUND.
For the hell of it I checked Parts Book 78Z | Page 26-11 | Figure 26.025 Air Conditioning Compressor, Condenser & Dehydrator
Mounting and note Item 14 - RING- "O." That tells me that GM differentiated a GASKET from a RING - O.
Given the information gleaned from the references above I will now agree with Emery that the OEM Gasket was indeed square and that
John's "T" shaped gasket started out square and cold flowed to the "T" shape.
In an earlier email I asked if anybody had any contacts at GM to see if we could get a copy of the drawing of that gasket; I never
got any responses to that question.
However, even after finding the information above I believe that using an o-ring sized for the groove in the oil cooler adapter with
a round cross section is better because:
1) there is metal to metal contact between the Oil Filter Base and the Oil Cooler Adapter
2) the o-ring is crushed providing a seal that will not cold flow over time leak
3) the Oil Filter Extension Fitting is torqued to 55 ft lb (X-7525 | Pg 6A=66 Torque Specifications) and will not come loose when
removing oil filters installed with a bit of oil on their seal and hand tightened
I reckon I've whipped this old horse to death! ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Heslinga
Rob:
Like you and John, this really surprised me to find this shape. You are correct that the gasket tees sat outide the groove and
played a role in the sealing. I did not take a picture of the seal in the adaptor groove because I though it would be redundant.
Unfortunately I do not have a spare adaptor around to do it now. As I was documenting this part I regretted not measuring the groove
and the rest of the adaptor sealing surface before reinstalling it. Could you please tell us what you measured? That never was
written in the last threads.
Of course, I am not sure that this is what the original part looked like. My confidance level of that statement is not high. I'm
only speculating at this point. It's interesting that nobody has ever stated what the original part should measure. However: when
rubber is extruded due to squeeze out it generally has rounded uneven appearances. As you can see from the picture, this gasket
looked like it was cast this way. Im simply forwarding what I found. Maybe someone who has actually seen this happen to their
oversized oil filter gasket can give us their observations. My Oil Filter Ring Solution did not do do this.
After 40 years who knows what was done to that coach, the engine and transmission already are transplants from a newer coach (403
in a 1973 coach) however they were simply exchanged so it is conceivable that the gasket may never have been changed.
Hmmmmm?
--
John
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket Profile [message #267267 is a reply to message #267249] |
Sun, 07 December 2014 06:49 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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USAussie wrote on Sat, 06 December 2014 19:11John,
You laughed but actually you have a point! I'll bet the temperature of the adapter will be somewhere between the temperature of the
oil going to the oil cooler and returning and you're right it isn't cold!
I reckon along with the temperature affecting the gasket deformation the torque applied to the oil cooler adapter extension plays a
part. The gasket I posted the photo of was deformed on the OD, however, the ID was close to the gasket JohnH posted. Perhaps the
extension was torqued more in my photo?
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: John R. Lebetski
I'm not sure how "cold" the flow is when pulling the Baker grade in the summer. Ha.
--
John
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Wow--I know that inquiring minds like to know, but I've never seen such a non event get so much attenton 
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket Profile [message #267271 is a reply to message #267267] |
Sun, 07 December 2014 08:07 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Bob,
PE.DAN.TIC
adjective
Synonyms: over scrupulous, scrupulous, precise, exact, perfectionist, punctilious, meticulous, fussy, fastidious, finicky; dogmatic,
purist, literalist, literalistic, formalist; casuistic, casuistical, sophistic, sophistical; captious, hair-splitting, quibbling;
informal nitpicking, persnickety
Nuff Said?! ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob de Kruyff
Wow--I know that inquiring minds like to know, but I've never seen such a non event get so much attenton :)
--
Bob
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket Profile [message #267274 is a reply to message #267271] |
Sun, 07 December 2014 10:24 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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USAussie wrote on Sun, 07 December 2014 07:07Bob,
PE.DAN.TIC
adjective
Synonyms: over scrupulous, scrupulous, precise, exact, perfectionist, punctilious, meticulous, fussy, fastidious, finicky; dogmatic,
purist, literalist, literalistic, formalist; casuistic, casuistical, sophistic, sophistical; captious, hair-splitting, quibbling;
informal nitpicking, persnickety
Nuff Said?! 
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob de Kruyff
Wow--I know that inquiring minds like to know, but I've never seen such a non event get so much attenton
--
Bob
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Rob--of course you know that I'll try to find that drawing now that you have sucked me into this question.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket Profile [message #267349 is a reply to message #267035] |
Tue, 09 December 2014 00:02 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Rob:
Thanks so much for chasing the measurements down.!!!!
Best Regards
John H
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket Profile [message #267353 is a reply to message #267341] |
Tue, 09 December 2014 09:21 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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USAussie wrote on Mon, 08 December 2014 17:40G'day,
I contacted the Parker engineer to see if he had a copy of the email in which I provided him with the measurements of the groove, turns out that I didn't email them to him, I gave them to him over the phone! He found his notes and advised the following:
2.803 OD X 2.437 ID X 0.120 Depth.
I have updated a number of the photos in this album to include the dimensions:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6677-oil-filter-adapter-to-oil-cooler-adapter-sealing.html
Ya da...Ya da...Ya da....now tell us where we can order these Parker "O" rings.
Ya know, I had this deformity issue when using a Fram oil filter gasket. I happen to mention this to Bob Drews. He told me to stop coating the gasket with oil before install. The oil he claimed was to provide a slippery surface on the oil filter gasket so that it would slide as you turned the filter in place. We are not turning the oil cooler adaptor to tighten it, we are tightening it straight on with a large bolt holding it in place...no need to have a slippery surface. So, the next time I changed oil, I wiped the surfaces clean of oil, and tightened it down with dry surfaces. Have not had a leak or deformity since. Geese...I miss that guy!!
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil Cooler Adaptor Gasket Profile [message #267357 is a reply to message #267353] |
Tue, 09 December 2014 12:42 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Larryl,
Go here and enter your postal zip code.
or
http://tinyurl.com/lk2442h
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
> On Dec 9, 2014, at 10:21 AM, Larry wrote:
>
> USAussie wrote on Mon, 08 December 2014 17:40
>> G'day,
>>
>> I contacted the Parker engineer to see if he had a copy of the email in which I provided him with the measurements of the groove, turns out that I
>> didn't email them to him, I gave them to him over the phone! He found his notes and advised the following:
>>
>> 2.803 OD X 2.437 ID X 0.120 Depth.
>>
>> I have updated a number of the photos in this album to include the dimensions:
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6677-oil-filter-adapter-to-oil-cooler-adapter-sealing.html
>
> Ya da...Ya da...Ya da....now tell us where we can order these Parker "O" rings.
>
> Ya know, I had this deformity issue when using a Fram oil filter gasket. I happen to mention this to Bob Drews. He told me to stop coating the
> gasket with oil before install. The oil he claimed was to provide a slippery surface on the oil filter gasket so that it would slide as you turned the
> filter in place. We are not turning the oil cooler adaptor to tighten it, we are tightening it straight on with a large bolt holding it in place...no
> need to have a slippery surface. So, the next time I changed oil, I wiped the surfaces clean of oil, and tightened it down with dry surfaces. Have
> not had a leak or deformity since. Geese...I miss that guy!!
> --
> Larry
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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