Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Seat Belts
| [GMCnet] Seat Belts [message #266015] |
Thu, 13 November 2014 16:54  |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
G'day,
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate.
We have photographic evidence of three instances where coaches rolled over and were "sheared" off at the beltline. The driver and
passenger involved in those incidents survived. Had they been wearing over the shoulder seat belts attached to the body they could /
would have been decapitated.
The OEM lap belt will keep the driver and passenger in their seats but will not keep the driver from "kissing" the steering wheel or
the passenger from being bent forward at the waist in a front end collision; I don't know if the passenger would "kiss" the dash or
not.
Do we have any hard data regarding front end collisions in which the driver and passengers were injured because of what I've noted
above?
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Henderson
I have a photo of a third that looks almost like the Nichols', which occurred some years before in FL -- looks like Payne's Prairie.
Nothing above the beltline.
My mind's made up.
Ken H.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Seat Belts [message #266025 is a reply to message #266015] |
Thu, 13 November 2014 19:36  |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726
Registered: May 2014
Location: Arlington, WA
Karma: -9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
It's been 20 years or so since my aunt was in a rollover accident in a 81 Monte Carlo she was driving, she left the roadway and rolled down a 15-20 foot depression of the side of Hwy 9 right before you get into Clear Lake WA. She landed upright, was not wearing her seatbelt. My father who is a Sedro-Woolley police officer responded to the accident scene as there were no Skagit County Deputies nearby. He told me about the accident scene a few years later and said that if she had been wearing her seatbelt she could have been decapitated based on the damage to the car. It was a 55 mph road and she wasn't impaired. Just drifted a little to far to the right onto the gravel shoulder and it sucked her off the road. Older car of course, airbags hadn't even been designed yet, have thought about the lack of a shoulder belt in the GMC, figured driving something this big I shouldn't be to concerned about it.
Not sure why I shared that, may be pertinent, may not.
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Seat Belts [message #266035 is a reply to message #266025] |
Thu, 13 November 2014 21:04 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I'm glad your aunt survived, that's for sure. However, one can almost always find exceptions to a general rule.
That general rule is that the odds definitely favor being belted in probably 85% or more of rollover crashes.
To me, the biggest danger is being ejected and then having the vehicle land on you and crush you.
I had seatbelts put into my 1956 Ford 2-door sedan in 1961 and have always worn them since. Some 1600 or so hours in a B-52 ejection seat sort of got me accustomed to being belted in. If I even tried to back out of the driveway without fastening the belt, the kids would chew me out!
P.S. I sure wish I could afford to buy a Ranger Tug! I sure miss our 35' Carver aft cabin we lost to weather almost four years ago.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:36:12 -0700
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: lotsofspreparts@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Seat Belts
>
> It's been 20 years or so since my aunt was in a rollover accident in a 81 Monte Carlo she was driving, she left the roadway and rolled down a 15-20
> foot depression of the side of Hwy 9 right before you get into Clear Lake WA. She landed upright, was not wearing her seatbelt. My father who is a
> Sedro-Woolley police officer responded to the accident scene as there were no Skagit County Deputies nearby. He told me about the accident scene a few
> years later and said that if she had been wearing her seatbelt she could have been decapitated based on the damage to the car. It was a 55 mph road
> and she wasn't impaired. Just drifted a little to far to the right onto the gravel shoulder and it sucked her off the road. Older car of course,
> airbags hadn't even been designed yet, have thought about the lack of a shoulder belt in the GMC, figured driving something this big I shouldn't be to
> concerned about it.
>
> Not sure why I shared that, may be pertinent, may not.
>
> Jared
> --
> Jared & Tina Lazaron + 7yr old Daughter.
>
> 77 Eleganza II "Recherché" Winterfeldt 455, Holley ProJection, Doug Thorley Headers, 3in exhaust, Switch Pitch, Alcoas, ONAN 6.5 Emerald series, CMC
> Restoration
>
> GO SEAHAWKS!!
>
> Arlington, WA 98223
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Seat Belts [message #266041 is a reply to message #266035] |
Thu, 13 November 2014 23:18 |
dan molnes
Messages: 166
Registered: October 2011
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
that's exactly what happened to my little sister wasn't pretty
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 7:04 PM, D C _Mac_ Macdonald
wrote:
> I'm glad your aunt survived, that's for sure. However, one can almost
> always find exceptions to a general rule.
>
> That general rule is that the odds definitely favor being belted in
> probably 85% or more of rollover crashes.
>
> To me, the biggest danger is being ejected and then having the vehicle
> land on you and crush you.
>
> I had seatbelts put into my 1956 Ford 2-door sedan in 1961 and have always
> worn them since. Some 1600 or so hours in a B-52 ejection seat sort of got
> me accustomed to being belted in. If I even tried to back out of the
> driveway without fastening the belt, the kids would chew me out!
>
> P.S. I sure wish I could afford to buy a Ranger Tug! I sure miss our 35'
> Carver aft cabin we lost to weather almost four years ago.
>
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
> ~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
> ~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
> ~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
> ~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ______________
> *[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
> *--OO--[]---O-*
>
>
>> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:36:12 -0700
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> From: lotsofspreparts@hotmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Seat Belts
>>
>> It's been 20 years or so since my aunt was in a rollover accident in a
> 81 Monte Carlo she was driving, she left the roadway and rolled down a 15-20
>> foot depression of the side of Hwy 9 right before you get into Clear
> Lake WA. She landed upright, was not wearing her seatbelt. My father who is
> a
>> Sedro-Woolley police officer responded to the accident scene as there
> were no Skagit County Deputies nearby. He told me about the accident scene
> a few
>> years later and said that if she had been wearing her seatbelt she could
> have been decapitated based on the damage to the car. It was a 55 mph road
>> and she wasn't impaired. Just drifted a little to far to the right onto
> the gravel shoulder and it sucked her off the road. Older car of course,
>> airbags hadn't even been designed yet, have thought about the lack of a
> shoulder belt in the GMC, figured driving something this big I shouldn't be
> to
>> concerned about it.
>>
>> Not sure why I shared that, may be pertinent, may not.
>>
>> Jared
>> --
>> Jared & Tina Lazaron + 7yr old Daughter.
>>
>> 77 Eleganza II "Recherché" Winterfeldt 455, Holley ProJection, Doug
> Thorley Headers, 3in exhaust, Switch Pitch, Alcoas, ONAN 6.5 Emerald
> series, CMC
>> Restoration
>>
>> GO SEAHAWKS!!
>>
>> Arlington, WA 98223
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Seat Belts [message #266043 is a reply to message #266041] |
Thu, 13 November 2014 23:27 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Personally it is all inconclusive as is the theory that a shoulder belt would decapitate you.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Seat Belts [message #266049 is a reply to message #266043] |
Fri, 14 November 2014 00:14 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I think that the most important feature of a seatbelt in the GMC is to keep the driver at the controls through an automotive emergency in order to maintain control or at least have a fighting chance to do such. The passenger belt is to keep the passenger from becoming more flotsam in the midst of said emergency. Emergency like hard swerve to avoid a collision or regain heading after mechanical failure or unexpected loss of traction/friction. I think tipping over or taking an impact up high in a GMC is something to be avoided at all costs. There just isn't that much structure up there and it's aluminum which is likely to fail catastrophically when impacted with the weight of the coach exerted on it. Don't roll it.
My 2c.
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
> On Nov 13, 2014, at 9:27 PM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
>
> Personally it is all inconclusive as is the theory that a shoulder belt would decapitate you.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Seat Belts - look at the numbers [message #266057 is a reply to message #266015] |
Fri, 14 November 2014 08:45 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I was RIFfed at Chrysler in 2001. Just before that, I worked in Crash. (The only non-engine job in 30years.) As a result, I also had to dig through the numbers (again) this was a lot like when a keyboard monkey at NHSTA.
The simple fact is that there are cases when an occupant is thrown clear and survives, can lay over in the seat to save the neck or the vehicle burns after impact, but all of these are below what we called the struck by lightning level.
So, unless you can count on winning money at a Las Vegas slot, seat belts are a good bet.
If you have an acquaintance that has ever worked vehicle accident investigation, ask him if he knows of a case that they remove a seat belt from a now lifeless body.
Matt - thank for reading and buckle up
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Seat Belts [message #266063 is a reply to message #266015] |
Fri, 14 November 2014 09:30 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I used to not wear my seat belt on my old 65 VW van. I always thought since my knees were 3-4" from the outside of the vehicle, and my face was not that far from the windshield I figured I was screwed if I ever got in a wreck in that thing no mater what.
as far as the GMC, I really have no comment, all accidents can be so different.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Seat Belts [message #266071 is a reply to message #266068] |
Fri, 14 November 2014 13:03 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Look at the Land Speed Record GMC Bonneville racer videos. Note the roll
cage that they constructed. That is probably the minimally acceptable
system that you should consider for attaching shoulder harness. Nowhere
near everyday practical. But, if you are serious about shoulder harnesses,
that is the kind of structural integration that would save your butt in a
roll over incident that did not involve substantial front end collision.
That is a whole different scenario. Best advice I can give is to drive
while well rested, leave anything that will distract your attention from
the the road ahead at home, leave lots of stopping distance between you and
what is ahead, take frequent rest stops, maintain your coach well, and
treat all other vehicles out there like they are moving
potholes. ( something to be avoided) . Don't run into "stuff"
out there and you won't need shoulder harnesses.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Nov 14, 2014 10:39 AM, "Kelvin Dietz" wrote:
> On 11/14/2014 9:47 AM, Larry wrote:
>
>> So, what about a set of Chevy pickup seats that have the shoulder harness
>> built into them. You'd have to figure a way of bolting them down securely,
>> but loosing the top half of the coach in a roll-over with these seats or
>> a frontal impact keeping you out of the steering wheel.....I don't
>> know...what do you think?
>>
>
> Just keep in mind that ANY shoulder belt you might install in your coach
> is going to be your own design. There's not a person or company out there
> that will do it for you (or even suggest their way is best, if they've got
> half a brain) just because of the liability issue.
>
> Installing a seat with integrated belt would be awesome - assuming you re
> engineered the whole mounting system. I wouldn't dare use the stock seat
> pedestal, for instance. And as Mac pointed out, it's entirely possible
> they were designed to be used with an airbag and even the OEM installation
> wouldn't stand up without that.
>
> Kelvin
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Seat Belts [message #266095 is a reply to message #266015] |
Fri, 14 November 2014 20:24 |
 |
John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey All
Please understand that I am NOT agreeing or disagreeing to anything that has been said here. I do have an opinion but I'll keep it to myself.
However:
I remember all of these kinds of discussions when I started pulling wrenches in the late 60s and seat belts were becomming standard in the cars of those years. It's really entertaining hearing the same kinds of arguments and reasons for all sides being rehashed. (COOL!!  It was interesting to hear how many people would refuse to wear belts for the very same kinds of reasons. I guess we can all figure out a situation where something will be a problem. It's all about what risks are we really trying to accommodate for, and can we accommodate all eventualities. (This is the stuff that keeps litigious societies going I suppose) (also VERY interesting to hear)
Regarding the following:
(Please remember that I'm just trying to add a bit of levity because it reminds me of something that is part of my conversations with my father, my students, and now my son the engineer.
Quote:
I reckon the answer is to engineer and install seats with integrated over the shoulder belts.
...
I would cover as much of the floor on the driver and passenger side of the cockpit with a 1/4" thick steel plate bolting it to the
aluminum framework. Here's a photo showing what I'm saying:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/aa-miscellaneous-photos/p56449-seat-mounting-plate.html
Here is a quote I always use.
"If you can't or dont do the math. You better put in the material" That's why there are "Brick Shithouses"
Is that good or bad?
Have a great weekend all !!
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Seat Belts [message #266108 is a reply to message #266095] |
Sat, 15 November 2014 07:38 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
John,
Not to really add anything, but you aroused my nostalgia: Back in '61 SHE,
I, and our infant son took a trip to the Smokey Mountains from Charleston,
SC. For some reason, we drove the '59 Morris Minor instead of the '59 Ford
Galaxie, a strange choice for a several hundred mile road trip. I was
having back problems, so to prevent slouching I wore a wide belt around my
pelvis and the bucket seat (which the Ford didn't have).
When we got home with my back in better than before condition, I installed
seat belts (aircraft surplus at that time) in both cars. Ever since, I
sometimes back out of the garage and can't get out of the car because I've
unconsciously buckled up. :-)
Still, I've got a brother-in-law who refuses to wear them -- except in MY
car.
Ken H.
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 9:24 PM, John Heslinga wrote:
> Hey All
>
> Please understand that I am NOT agreeing or disagreeing to anything that
> has been said here. I do have an opinion but I'll keep it to myself.
>
> However:
> I remember all of these kinds of discussions when I started pulling
> wrenches in the late 60s and seat belts were becomming standard in the
> cars of
> t
> hose years.
...
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Seat Belts [message #266167 is a reply to message #266015] |
Sat, 15 November 2014 22:24 |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726
Registered: May 2014
Location: Arlington, WA
Karma: -9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Really not trying to add bad morale with this topic.... does anyone know if anyone has lost their life in an accident involving a GMC MH.
Not wanting to debate, just more curious than anything else.
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Sun Sep 29 09:26:31 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01793 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
