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[GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265387] Mon, 03 November 2014 19:13 Go to next message
Ray Erspamer is currently offline  Ray Erspamer   United States
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Per information I've found, here is one procedure apparently from Manny T.

An easy way to calibrate the dip stick without removing the pan is :
Take the GMC out for a drive to get the oil hot and the torque
converter full of oil.

Remove the vacuum modulator and fill the tranny until the oil just
drips out of the hole from the vacuum modulator now mark your dip
stick at the full line.

Question I have is: What temperature should the oil be for this to
be accurate??? There is a huge difference when the oil is 140 degrees
vs 200 degrees. And how much time would I have to do this before all
of the oil drains back out of the converter??

Thanks

--
Ray Erspamer
78 Royale - "The Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMCRoyale@gmail.com
414-484-9431
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
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Ray Erspamer 78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen 403, 3.70 Final Drive Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System, Holley Hyperspark Ignition System 414-484-9431
Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265438 is a reply to message #265387] Tue, 04 November 2014 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carl S. is currently offline  Carl S.   United States
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Ray Erspamer wrote on Mon, 03 November 2014 18:13
Per information I've found, here is one procedure apparently from Manny T.

An easy way to calibrate the dip stick without removing the pan is :
Take the GMC out for a drive to get the oil hot and the torque
converter full of oil.

Remove the vacuum modulator and fill the tranny until the oil just
drips out of the hole from the vacuum modulator now mark your dip
stick at the full line.

Question I have is: What temperature should the oil be for this to
be accurate??? There is a huge difference when the oil is 140 degrees
vs 200 degrees. And how much time would I have to do this before all
of the oil drains back out of the converter??

Thanks

--
Ray Erspamer
78 Royale - "The Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMCRoyale@gmail.com
414-484-9431
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
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Ray,

I may be sticking my neck out here, but I don't believe it matters whether the fluid is hot or cold for this procedure. Think about it, all you are doing is establishing the level for the dipstick reading. The fluid will be at the same level, at the bottom of the modulator hole, no matter what temperature it is. After you have calibrated the dipstick, and you are checking the actual fluid level, then is when you need to have the oil at operating temperature and the torque converter filled (engine running). For the purpose of simply calibrating the dipstick, the oil temperature is immaterial.


Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265439 is a reply to message #265438] Tue, 04 November 2014 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
larry.whisler is currently offline  larry.whisler   United States
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Would it be possible to stick a rod down the transmission dipstick tube
until it hits the pan to determine the fluid level and then stick the transmission
dipstick in the tube to determine where the level is on the dipstick?

I don't know how deep the fluid should be in an OEM pan
or the aftermarket pans but I am sure someone
out here on the forum would know.

I think that this method might even work on the motor oil level using a
long piece of stiff wire.

larry
Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265606 is a reply to message #265439] Fri, 07 November 2014 19:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
powerjon is currently offline  powerjon   United States
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Larry,
Doesn’t matter which pan you have on the tranny if you use this method.

"An easy way to calibrate the dip stick with out removing the pan is :
Take the GMC out for a drive to get the oil hot and the torque converter full of oil
remove the vacuum modulator and fill the tranny until the oil just drips out of the hole from the vacuum modulator
now mark your dip stick at the full line. info from ManyT”

JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan

> On Nov 4, 2014, at 2:03 PM, larry.whisler wrote:
>
>
> Would it be possible to stick a rod down the transmission dipstick tube
> until it hits the pan to determine the fluid level and then stick the transmission
> dipstick in the tube to determine where the level is on the dipstick?
>
> I don't know how deep the fluid should be in an OEM pan
> or the aftermarket pans but I am sure someone
> out here on the forum would know.
>
> I think that this method might even work on the motor oil level using a
> long piece of stiff wire.
>
> larry
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265607 is a reply to message #265438] Fri, 07 November 2014 20:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
habbyguy is currently offline  habbyguy   United States
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Carl S. wrote on Tue, 04 November 2014 11:41
I may be sticking my neck out here, but I don't believe it matters whether the fluid is hot or cold for this procedure. Think about it, all you are doing is establishing the level for the dipstick reading. The fluid will be at the same level, at the bottom of the modulator hole, no matter what temperature it is. After you have calibrated the dipstick, and you are checking the actual fluid level, then is when you need to have the oil at operating temperature and the torque converter filled (engine running). For the purpose of simply calibrating the dipstick, the oil temperature is immaterial.

Actually, it does matter. According to the best info I can find, engine oil (and I suspect transmission fluid is similar) has a 0.07% increase in volume per degree C. That means if you have 10qts of oil at 30C, you will have appx 10.49qts at 100C. That's quite a bit of difference, though I'm guessing not enough to cause our ancient trannies to act up much.


Mark Hickey Mesa, AZ 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265609 is a reply to message #265607] Fri, 07 November 2014 21:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
powerjon is currently offline  powerjon   United States
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Actually it still Doesn’t matter! Our transmissions with the stock pan and stock cooler and lines contains 12 quarts of fluid. The addition of a deep pan and extra external cooler increases fluid volume to a little over 13+ quarts. As the fluid expands when it is warmed up that is why you check your level hot and not cold. The level of modulator port doesn’t change so when you quickly remove the modulator and check for ATF coming out or not that is your correct level when you get ATF to start to drip out of the port. If you have a continuous stream coming out you have too much. Remember this has to be check quickly. Those who have recently replaced the transmission and converter, the converter should not leak down very quickly, those with high mileage transmissions and converters will have a faster leak down and each is different. After you have done all this and your level is correct, take and mark your dipstick for your HOT level, that is the correct level.

JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan

> On Nov 7, 2014, at 9:49 PM, Mark wrote:
>
> Carl S. wrote on Tue, 04 November 2014 11:41
>> I may be sticking my neck out here, but I don't believe it matters whether the fluid is hot or cold for this procedure. Think about it, all you
>> are doing is establishing the level for the dipstick reading. The fluid will be at the same level, at the bottom of the modulator hole, no matter
>> what temperature it is. After you have calibrated the dipstick, and you are checking the actual fluid level, then is when you need to have the oil
>> at operating temperature and the torque converter filled (engine running). For the purpose of simply calibrating the dipstick, the oil temperature
>> is immaterial.
>
> Actually, it does matter. According to the best info I can find, engine oil (and I suspect transmission fluid is similar) has a 0.07% increase in
> volume per degree C. That means if you have 10qts of oil at 30C, you will have appx 10.49qts at 100C. That's quite a bit of difference, though I'm
> guessing not enough to cause our ancient trannies to act up much.
> --
> Mark Hickey
> Mesa, AZ
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265618 is a reply to message #265609] Sat, 08 November 2014 00:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
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G'day,

Does anyone have an OEM transmission panel handy and can measure the ID width and length, don't care about the depth just the width
and length.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426



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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265637 is a reply to message #265609] Sat, 08 November 2014 09:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
habbyguy is currently offline  habbyguy   United States
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powerjon wrote on Fri, 07 November 2014 20:54
Actually it still Doesn't matter!

I'm kinda confused - the original question was "does it matter if the fluid is hot or cold when you check it?". JR suggests it doesn't matter, but then says you have to check it with the fluid hot (which was the point I was reinforcing by posting the expansion characteristics of the tranny fluid). Am I missing something?


Mark Hickey Mesa, AZ 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265640 is a reply to message #265637] Sat, 08 November 2014 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
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habbyguy wrote on Sat, 08 November 2014 09:36
powerjon wrote on Fri, 07 November 2014 20:54
Actually it still Doesn't matter!

I'm kinda confused - the original question was "does it matter if the fluid is hot or cold when you check it?". JR suggests it doesn't matter, but then says you have to check it with the fluid hot (which was the point I was reinforcing by posting the expansion characteristics of the tranny fluid). Am I missing something?


I think you guys are hung up on the words "check it". For the purposes of initially marking the full line on the stick it makes no difference whether the fluid is hot or cold. All you are doing is marking the point on the stick where the fluid starts to run out of the modulator hole.

Now if you are checking the fluid level of the already calibrated (marked) stick, then you want to check the fluid level with the fluid at normal operating temperature.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265646 is a reply to message #265640] Sat, 08 November 2014 10:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GMC.LES is currently offline  GMC.LES   United States
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I think Manny's instructions were intended to establish the correct HOT level so that when the fluid cools down, you will also know the approximate COLD level. Also, using Manny's method with cold fluid would create a slightly overfull condition when hot. Also, how do you establish how much fluid drained back from the TC? Cold level is a guesstimate at best.

Now if you just did a tranny replacement or fluid change, and want to establish the correct fluid level before running the engine, using manny's method with cold fluid is the way to go as your gonna need to add fluid once it has been run a few minutes.

Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress



On Nov 8, 2014, at 11:11 AM, Ken Burton wrote:

habbyguy wrote on Sat, 08 November 2014 09:36
> powerjon wrote on Fri, 07 November 2014 20:54
>> Actually it still Doesn't matter!
>
> I'm kinda confused - the original question was "does it matter if the fluid is hot or cold when you check it?". JR suggests it doesn't matter,
> but then says you have to check it with the fluid hot (which was the point I was reinforcing by posting the expansion characteristics of the tranny
> fluid). Am I missing something?


I think you guys are hung up on the words "check it". For the purposes of initially marking the full line on the stick it makes no difference whether
the fluid is hot or cold. All you are doing is marking the point on the stick where the fluid starts to run out of the modulator hole.

Now if you are checking the fluid level of the already calibrated (marked) stick, then you want to check the fluid level with the fluid at normal
operating temperature.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265647 is a reply to message #265387] Sat, 08 November 2014 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ray Erspamer is currently offline  Ray Erspamer   United States
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This is becoming more and more confusing.  

I would like to check/calibrate my dipsticks ADD and FULL marks to see if they are accurate.  I feel that they are wrong and that I'm over filling the transmission.  

Whenever I check the fluid I have to add between a pint and a quart.  I either have a bad leak or I'm over filling it and blowing it out.  The entire under side of my coach is always dripping with trans fluid.

I'm thinking that pulling the pan and calibrating it that way would now be the most accurate.   I haven't seen any "clear" information on the modulator method. 

Also, if you knew you had an accurate dipstick and the trans fluid was at the full level.  Could you let the coach sit on level ground, let the converter drain back, mark the stick there and also have the option of checking it cold?


Sent on a Sprint Samsung Galaxy S® III

-------- Original message --------From: Ken Burton Date:11/08/2014 10:11 AM (GMT-06:00) To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level
habbyguy wrote on Sat, 08 November 2014 09:36
> powerjon wrote on Fri, 07 November 2014 20:54
>> Actually it still Doesn't matter!
>
> I'm kinda confused - the original question was "does it matter if the fluid is hot or cold when you check it?". JR suggests it doesn't matter,
> but then says you have to check it with the fluid hot (which was the point I was reinforcing by posting the expansion characteristics of the tranny
> fluid). Am I missing something?


I think you guys are hung up on the words "check it". For the purposes of initially marking the full line on the stick it makes no difference whether
the fluid is hot or cold. All you are doing is marking the point on the stick where the fluid starts to run out of the modulator hole.

Now if you are checking the fluid level of the already calibrated (marked) stick, then you want to check the fluid level with the fluid at normal
operating temperature.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Ray Erspamer 78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen 403, 3.70 Final Drive Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System, Holley Hyperspark Ignition System 414-484-9431
Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265648 is a reply to message #265637] Sat, 08 November 2014 11:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GMC.LES is currently offline  GMC.LES   United States
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This subject has reminded me of a characteristic of extremely long dipsticks that I have noticed.

When these dipsticks are inserted and removed a few seconds later, they will provide one reading. If inserted and then the vehicle is operated for some time and then the level verified, the reading will read higher up the dipstick. The difference between the two readings is due to slight binding of the dipstick in the bends of the tube . The binding holds the dipstick back and the vehicle vibration encourages it to drop further into the fluid. Some people like to take cold fluid level readings before the first start of the day and I've seen some who pull and take the reading without wiping. If precise levels are desired, removal, wiping, and reinsertion-removal is the best method, which on some vehicles is the only method that works due to excess oil that remains on the dipstick until wiped.

Just my little tidbit of somewhat useless info. :)



Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress


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Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265651 is a reply to message #265648] Sat, 08 November 2014 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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I am going to jump in here and TRY to clarify this whole dipstick mess. The
stock, under the hatch, factory original equipment dipstick is for the most
part "spot on mate" as Rob often states.
Add the Rockwell or Ragusa aluminum pans to the equation, and it only
changes THE AMOUNT OF FLUID required to come back to the original fill
level. NO CALIBRATION WILL BE REQUIRED ON THE DIPSTICK.
When an under the drivers hood remote dipstick is installed, is when
it gets interesting. Several of them out there for sale, and a number of
GMCers have fabricated their own. All of those should be checked for
accuracy.
Regardless of which oil cooler lines, after market pans, coolers, etc
are used. one fact remains constant. The transmission fluid level should be
exactly to the bottom edge of the Modulator hole when the coach is on level
footing. This is checked by having the transmission at operating
temperature and having been run immediately prior to removing the
modulator. If nothing runs out the hole, add fluid until it just does. Put
the modulator back in, insert the dipstick, and wherever the fluid comes to
on the dipstick is the correct fluid level. Mark the stick with a three
corner file. Put the stick back in and do something else, like polish your
wheels while enjoying an adult beverage. If you have a transmission leak,
that requires you to constantly monitor fluid level, then fix the leak.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403

On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 9:39 AM, Les Burt wrote:

> This subject has reminded me of a characteristic of extremely long
> dipsticks that I have noticed.
>
> When these dipsticks are inserted and removed a few seconds later, they
> will provide one reading. If inserted and then the vehicle is operated for
> some time and then the level verified, the reading will read higher up the
> dipstick. The difference between the two readings is due to slight binding
> of the dipstick in the bends of the tube . The binding holds the dipstick
> back and the vehicle vibration encourages it to drop further into the
> fluid. Some people like to take cold fluid level readings before the first
> start of the day and I've seen some who pull and take the reading without
> wiping. If precise levels are desired, removal, wiping, and
> reinsertion-removal is the best method, which on some vehicles is the only
> method that works due to excess oil that remains on the dipstick until
> wiped.
>
> Just my little tidbit of somewhat useless info. :)
>
>
>
> Les Burt
> Montreal
> 1975 Eleganza 26ft
> A work in Progress
>
>
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Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265659 is a reply to message #265647] Sat, 08 November 2014 14:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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This is not about checking the fluid level, but checking the level indicator for accuracy.

I think it will no matter if the transmission or fluid is hot or cold.
The fact is that the modulator hole is the desired level as has been stated here.
So, with things cleaned up so the spilled fluid might be reused and the coach at a more or less normal attitude, could not one just pull the modulator and let it drain into a clean pan (for an extended time if cold). Note and mark the level on the stick and call that good??

Would that not provide effective calibration?

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265661 is a reply to message #265659] Sat, 08 November 2014 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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I kind of look at it this way. If the torque converter has leaked down,
there will be a deficit in fluid compared to when the engine is running and
the converter is full, IF THE LEVEL is checked cold and leaked down. I want
my transmission to have the correct volume of fluid in the system when it
is operating. If you let the converter leak down and then pull the
modulator, you will probably drain some fluid when you remove the
modulator. If you have recently run the engine, the converter should be
filled like it would be when you are operating the coach. Clear as mud,
right?
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403

On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Matt Colie wrote:

> This is not about checking the fluid level, but checking the level
> indicator for accuracy.
>
> I think it will no matter if the transmission or fluid is hot or cold.
> The fact is that the modulator hole is the desired level as has been
> stated here.
> So, with things cleaned up so the spilled fluid might be reused and the
> coach at a more or less normal attitude, could not one just pull the
> modulator
> and let it drain into a clean pan (for an extended time if cold). Note
> and mark the level on the stick and call that good??
>
> Would that not provide effective calibration?
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES
> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265662 is a reply to message #265661] Sat, 08 November 2014 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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Jim,

I can see that something didn't carry.

All I am looking to do is check the transmission dip stick real calibration.
I am not (at this very moment) looking to determine if the actual volume of fluid currently in the transmission is correct. As I have always understood, that simply cannot be determined with the engine not running.

As it happens, I know my transmission's stick has been changed, modified or damaged, but I do not know what, whom or by how much. With now 40+k miles at this fill level, I guess I'm not real worried. But, every time I used bring it to level, it would spit about a pint back out. I have given up fighting that one. But, it would be nice to know if the blasted stick has been the problem all along.

It did take me a while to come to that conclusion with the engine.
With the lube oil at the add mark, it consumes about one quart in 2K miles.
But, If it starts at the full mark, it will be down a quart in less than 500 miles.

Matt

James Hupy wrote on Sat, 08 November 2014 15:34
I kind of look at it this way. If the torque converter has leaked down, there will be a deficit in fluid compared to when the engine is running and the converter is full, IF THE LEVEL is checked cold and leaked down. I want my transmission to have the correct volume of fluid in the system when it is operating. If you let the converter leak down and then pull the modulator, you will probably drain some fluid when you remove the modulator. If you have recently run the engine, the converter should be filled like it would be when you are operating the coach. Clear as mud,
right?
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403

On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Matt Colie wrote:

This is not about checking the fluid level, but checking the level indicator for accuracy.

I think it will no matter if the transmission or fluid is hot or cold.
The fact is that the modulator hole is the desired level as has been stated here.

So, with things cleaned up so the spilled fluid might be reused and the coach at a more or less normal attitude, could not one just pull the modulator and let it drain into a clean pan (for an extended time if cold).
Note and mark the level on the stick and call that good??

Would that not provide effective calibration?

Matt



Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265664 is a reply to message #265662] Sat, 08 November 2014 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ray Erspamer is currently offline  Ray Erspamer   United States
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Senior Member
Good point Jim. As many posts as there has been on this I'm still
completely confused. My dipstick is also NOT the original. I have
asked others to measure theirs and I have gotten responses on dipstick
measurements that vary by 1 1/2". I want to calibrate my stick so
that I know I have an accurate ADD mark and an accurate FULL mark.
Every time I fill to the full mark on the stick I have bow I blow out
lots of fluid. Sounds to me like the only good way to do it is to
drop the pan and measure it the way outlined here.

REMOVING THE PAN
To calibrate the stick with the tranny, remove the sump pan and put a
straight edge across the bottom of the tranny body (where the pan
bolts on to.) Put a temporary mark at this level, pull the stick out
and measure DOWN from this temporary mark 1/4", and put some type of
permanent mark there. This will be the HOT/FULL mark for the tranny
fluid, under normal driving conditions. You can also mark the stick
for the ADD mark, that will be 1/2" below the HOT/FULL mark that you
have just marked. You can center punch a mark there, mark it with a
die grinder or drill a small hole in the stick for your reference
mark.

The method of using the modulator seems too hit or miss. The fluid
temperature can vary significantly and that has to have an affect on
that method. With all of the posts I still don't seem to have a
clear answer on it.

On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Matt Colie wrote:
> Jim,
>
> I can see that something didn't carry.
>
> All I am looking to do is check the transmission dip stick real calibration.
> I am not (at this very moment) looking to determine if the actual volume of fluid currently in the transmission is correct. As I have always
> understood, that simply cannot be determined with the engine not running.
>
> As it happens, I know my transmission's stick has been changed, modified or damaged, but I do not know what, whom or by how much. With now 40+k miles
> at this fill level, I guess I'm not real worried. But, every time I used bring it to level, it would spit about a pint back out. I have given up
> fighting that one. But, it would be nice to know if the blasted stick has been the problem all along.
>
> It did take me a while to come to that conclusion with the engine.
> With the lube oil at the add mark, it consumes about one quart in 2K miles.
> But, If it starts at the full mark, it will be down a quart in less than 500 miles.
>
> Matt
>
> James Hupy wrote on Sat, 08 November 2014 15:34
>> I kind of look at it this way. If the torque converter has leaked down, there will be a deficit in fluid compared to when the engine is running
>> and the converter is full, IF THE LEVEL is checked cold and leaked down. I want my transmission to have the correct volume of fluid in the system
>> when it is operating. If you let the converter leak down and then pull the modulator, you will probably drain some fluid when you remove the
>> modulator. If you have recently run the engine, the converter should be filled like it would be when you are operating the coach. Clear as mud,
>> right?
>> Jim Hupy
>> Salem, OR
>> 78 GMC Royale 403
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Matt Colie wrote:
>>
>> This is not about checking the fluid level, but checking the level indicator for accuracy.
>>
>> I think it will no matter if the transmission or fluid is hot or cold.
>> The fact is that the modulator hole is the desired level as has been stated here.
>>
>> So, with things cleaned up so the spilled fluid might be reused and the coach at a more or less normal attitude, could not one just pull the
>> modulator and let it drain into a clean pan (for an extended time if cold).
>> Note and mark the level on the stick and call that good??
>>
>> Would that not provide effective calibration?
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES
> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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--
Ray Erspamer
78 Royale - "The Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMCRoyale@gmail.com
414-484-9431
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
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Ray Erspamer 78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen 403, 3.70 Final Drive Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System, Holley Hyperspark Ignition System 414-484-9431
Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265665 is a reply to message #265664] Sat, 08 November 2014 15:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carl S. is currently offline  Carl S.   United States
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
Senior Member

I stand by my original answer. If the point of the whole exercise is to do nothing more than calibrate the dipstick, and the bottom of the invert on the modulator hole is the proper level, then it makes no difference what the temperature of the fluid is, or how much it expands when hot. Of course, the actual fluid level MUST be checked with the engine running and the transmission at operating temperature. But this is a completely separate procedure than simply calibrating the dipstick.

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265666 is a reply to message #265387] Sat, 08 November 2014 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
habbyguy is currently offline  habbyguy   United States
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
Senior Member
Carl, I agree that it would work out the same - as far as marking the dipstick - either way (hot or cold tranny). Still, it seems like if you do the procedure with the tranny cold, even though your dipstick ends up calibrated properly, you'll end up with too much fluid in your tranny (that is, if the fluid is "at the right level" with the tranny cold, it will expand and be too high with the tranny at operating temperature.

So in a very narrow sense where getting the line on the dipstick right is your only goal, temperature doesn't matter. But for getting the fluid to the right level, it would seem to make sense to pull the modulator out with the fluid at normal operating temperature, so you would end up with the right tranny fluid level (which, after all, is the ultimate goal). Then you could wait for the tranny to cool down and put a second mark on the dipstick for the proper cold level. Three birds, one stone.


Mark Hickey Mesa, AZ 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level [message #265667 is a reply to message #265664] Sat, 08 November 2014 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
G'day,

Back in February I published this Manny Trovao has reviewed this procedure and "blessed" it.

TRANSMISSION DIPSTICK CALIBRATION

You will need the following items to perform this procedure:

1) Three ton jack stands - 2 ea.
2) Rags
3) Oil drain pan
4) Tool capable of removing existing marks on transmission dipstick
5) Tool capable of remarking transmission dipstick
6) Half inch (1/2") socket, extension, and ratchet to remove / reinstall modulator retainer
7) Transmission fluid

Comments:

1) Before you start this procedure look at the passenger side of the transmission and locate the modulator (Ref: Parts Book 78Z -
TRANSMISSION - Pg. 17-2 Key 6 Modulator.
2) You need to do the checking fairly quickly after stopping when the engine and transmission are HOT and the torque convertor is
full.

Procedure:

1) Park your GMC on a level surface
2) Set the parking brake
3) Set the suspension system to TRAVEL
4) Start the engine and allow coach to reach TRAVEL height
5) Depress the brake pedal
6) Cycle the transmission lever through all the positions back and forth several times slowly
7) Return the transmission to PARK
8) Leave the engine running and check the fluid level of the transmission
9) The fluid level should be at the "COLD" line if not slowly and carefully fill the transmission to that level DO NOT OVERFILL IT!
10) Get back in the coach and drive it long enough for the engine and transmission to come to normal operating temperature
11) Park the GMC on a level surface
12) Put the transmission in Park and set the parking brake
13) With the engine running check the fluid level of the transmission; if it's not on the HOT mark continue as below
14) Shut the engine off and place jack stands under the frame so that if a torsion bar were to fail you won't get crushed
15) Be careful from this point onwards not to burn yourself on the HOT exhaust pipes or with HOT transmission fluid
16) Place a drain pan under the modulator on the passenger side of the transmission
17) Remove the rubber vacuum line
18) Remove the bolt that holds the modulator retainer to the transmission using the half inch socket, extension, and ratchet
19) Remove the modulator (be careful it will be HOT)
20) Allow fluid to drain into the pan until it just starts to drip (be careful, the fluid will be HOT!)
21) If fluid does not drip out add it slowly until it does
22) Re-install the modulator, hose, and retaining screw
23) Remove the drain pan and jack stands
24) Get back in the GMC, start the engine and drive the GMC until the engine and transmission are at normal operating temperature
25) Park the GMC on a level surface
26) Set the hand brake and put the transmission in Park
27) Check the level on the dipstick, it should be at the "HOT" mark; if not note where it is
28) Remove the existing "HOT" mark on the dipstick and mark it at the correct level
29) Allow the transmission to cool overnight
30) Start the engine the next day and cycle the transmission lever through all the positions back and forth several times slowly
31) Check the level on the dipstick, it should be at or near the "COLD" mark; if not note where it is
32) Remove the existing "COLD" mark on the dipstick and mark it at the correct level

If I missed anything or what I've written isn't clear PLEASE let me know.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ray Erspamer
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2014 8:20 AM
To: Net GMC
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Calibrating Transmission Fluid Level

Good point Jim. As many posts as there has been on this I'm still
completely confused. My dipstick is also NOT the original. I have
asked others to measure theirs and I have gotten responses on dipstick
measurements that vary by 1 1/2". I want to calibrate my stick so
that I know I have an accurate ADD mark and an accurate FULL mark.
Every time I fill to the full mark on the stick I have bow I blow out
lots of fluid. Sounds to me like the only good way to do it is to
drop the pan and measure it the way outlined here.

REMOVING THE PAN
To calibrate the stick with the tranny, remove the sump pan and put a
straight edge across the bottom of the tranny body (where the pan
bolts on to.) Put a temporary mark at this level, pull the stick out
and measure DOWN from this temporary mark 1/4", and put some type of
permanent mark there. This will be the HOT/FULL mark for the tranny
fluid, under normal driving conditions. You can also mark the stick
for the ADD mark, that will be 1/2" below the HOT/FULL mark that you
have just marked. You can center punch a mark there, mark it with a
die grinder or drill a small hole in the stick for your reference
mark.

The method of using the modulator seems too hit or miss. The fluid
temperature can vary significantly and that has to have an affect on
that method. With all of the posts I still don't seem to have a
clear answer on it.

Ray

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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