| Steering relay lever removal advice needed [message #265048] |
Tue, 28 October 2014 22:06  |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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So, thought the pivot bolt would be the bear, got a four foot breaker bar on it through a five inch gap between frame and radiator.
Rented a tool like this
http://www.harborfreight.com/tie-rod-and-pitman-arm-puller-1752.html
from Autozone, and that popped the front tapered joint (drag link end)
The above tool is too narrow to go over the rear connection (to intermediate rod). I rented an adjustable tool to get a little wider, and it is not strong enough to stay in place as the intermediate rod has a tapered/rounded edge.
Do I just need to find a wider jawed solid puller device, heat something up (afraid of fire, and driveway clearance means I am under there with it), etc.?
Seems like if I use something like this,
http://www.harborfreight.com/21-32-inch-pneumatic-tie-rod-separator-66316.html
it will tear up the joint. If this relay arm proves to be worn out, may not matter, but hate to ruin it if there is a better way.
Tyler
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: Steering relay lever removal advice needed [message #265094 is a reply to message #265048] |
Wed, 29 October 2014 18:15  |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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I can't believe no one has replied to this post...put the pivot bolt back in so the relay lever is mounted solid, then with a small maul(3 lb head), smack the side of the joint that has the tapered seat. Don't beat the crap out of it, but hit it pretty hard and check to see if it came loose after each smack. If you have doubts about the relay arm being good or bad, then you need to check it before removing it. Rob Mueller has posted a guide for checking front end parts that will explain the proper procedure. A helper on the steering wheel is necessary and if there is any looseness in the pivot of that arm you will see up and down movement that should not be happening. Play in the 2 ends will be evident using the fingers and hands on the joint as described in Robs guide. When you stick your fingers into those joints, beware of metal shards that can develop as the joint wears out and the shaft rubs against the body of the arm or tie rod end or whatever you are checking. DO NOT USE HEAT! Metal is made with heat, and its properties can be changed with heat. That is a no-no in this scenario. Also, removing the inner fender well makes this job much easier, and removing the wheel and tire after checking the steering parts gives you much more working room. You do not need to remove the wheel to get the inner fender out, just remove the screws and roll it out over the tire.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering relay lever removal advice needed [message #265100 is a reply to message #265094] |
Wed, 29 October 2014 19:05 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Terry,
Thanks for the compliment!
For everybody's information the relay lever tapered shaft rides in rubber bushing and it is most likely SHOT after almost 40 years.
In my opinion replacing it with the one made by Dave Lenzi which has the tapered shaft riding in a brass bushing with a grease
nipple is the way to go.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry
I can't believe no one has replied to this post...put the pivot bolt back in so the relay lever is mounted solid, then with a small
maul(3 lb head), smack the side of the joint that has the tapered seat. Don't beat the crap out of it, but hit it pretty hard and
check to see if it came loose after each smack. If you have doubts about the relay arm being good or bad, then you need to check it
before removing it. Rob Mueller has posted a guide for checking front end parts that will explain the proper procedure. A helper on
the steering wheel is necessary and if there is any looseness in the pivot of that arm you will see up and down movement that should
not be happening. Play in the 2 ends will be evident using the fingers and hands on the joint as described in Robs guide. When you
stick your fingers into those joints, beware of metal shards that can develop as the joint wears out and the shaft rubs against the
body of the arm or tie rod end or whatever you are checking. DO NOT USE HEAT! Metal is made with heat, and its properties can be
changed with heat. That is a no-no in this scenario. Also, removing the inner fender well makes this job much easier, and removing
the wheel and tire after checking the steering parts gives you much more working room. You do not need to remove the wheel to get
the inner fender
out, just remove the screws and roll it out over the tire.
--
Terry
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering relay lever removal advice needed [message #265128 is a reply to message #265123] |
Thu, 30 October 2014 09:27 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Loffen wrote on Thu, 30 October 2014 06:58Just a little tip if you have room for it to loosen tie rods or whatever that use a conical shaft, loosen the bolt a couple of turns and hit from both sides with two heavy hammers simultanius a couple of times, this will normally loosen the coned part up and you will not have any damage to boots or rubber parts if you are careful.
Yepa - this has worked almost every time I've tried it. It sure bets the pickle forks. For those times it doesn't seem to be working I've put just a bit of pressure on the stud with a small gear puller. That has always worked for me.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: Steering relay lever removal advice needed [message #265129 is a reply to message #265048] |
Thu, 30 October 2014 09:39 |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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Sounds like "smack it from sides, no heat" is next. I have not tried smacking the side of the joint, and was fearful of hitting the bolt too hard for fear of killing the threads on a possibly good arm. Driveway clearance is limited for a good smacking...will try the inner fender removal and may have to get it off the ground a little more for next attempt.
The arm I am taking out has a grease nipple in the middle, so does that mean it is at least one version newer than original?
I am working on it because my local shop put the coach on a lift where we could see it all well before an alignment, and he showed me the arm working up and down. I am reluctant to tear up the current one for two reasons: 1-The guy I got my (used) replacement arm from is very knowledgeable (but 100 miles from me so hasn't put eyes on it yet), he said the pivot could wobble if the main bolt wasn't tightened all the way (recall the manual call for 250 ft/lbs torque). 2 - Even if it's worn it seems to have value as a core based on forum conversations and prices of rebuilt. If I was stuck on the side of the road with a second one beside me, it would be out by now!
Thanks for the tips -
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: Steering relay lever removal advice needed [message #265131 is a reply to message #265129] |
Thu, 30 October 2014 10:02 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Tilerpep wrote on Thu, 30 October 2014 09:39Sounds like "smack it from sides, no heat" is next. I have not tried smacking the side of the joint, and was fearful of hitting the bolt too hard for fear of killing the threads on a possibly good arm. Driveway clearance is limited for a good smacking...will try the inner fender removal and may have to get it off the ground a little more for next attempt.
Leave the nut on the threads but just backed off a few turns. The nut will then protect the threads if you have a mistrike. The nut will also prevent the end from flying out. It will pop our with a surpsing amount of force. You do not need to beat it out. Just a smart rap. The trick is to hit it on both sides at the same time. It may take a few tries until you get hang of simulatneous hits.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering relay lever removal advice needed [message #265133 is a reply to message #265129] |
Thu, 30 October 2014 10:40 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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A few years back mine was moving up and down a little. But it did not rock at all so it appeared that it was not worn.
I fashioned a thin shim using a washer meant as a reducer for conduit going into a metal box. I had to file the id a little so it would over the bolt. This stopped the up and down movement and tightened up my steering.
Emery Stora
> On Oct 30, 2014, at 8:39 AM, Tyler wrote:
>
> Sounds like "smack it from sides, no heat" is next. I have not tried smacking the side of the joint, and was fearful of hitting the bolt too hard for
> fear of killing the threads on a possibly good arm. Driveway clearance is limited for a good smacking...will try the inner fender removal and may have
> to get it off the ground a little more for next attempt.
>
> The arm I am taking out has a grease nipple in the middle, so does that mean it is at least one version newer than original?
>
> I am working on it because my local shop put the coach on a lift where we could see it all well before an alignment, and he showed me the arm working
> up and down. I am reluctant to tear up the current one for two reasons: 1-The guy I got my (used) replacement arm from is very knowledgeable (but 100
> miles from me so hasn't put eyes on it yet), he said the pivot could wobble if the main bolt wasn't tightened all the way (recall the manual call for
> 250 ft/lbs torque). 2 - Even if it's worn it seems to have value as a core based on forum conversations and prices of rebuilt. If I was stuck on the
> side of the road with a second one beside me, it would be out by now!
>
> Thanks for the tips -
>
> --
> 1975 Glenbrook
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: Steering relay lever removal advice needed [message #265146 is a reply to message #265048] |
Thu, 30 October 2014 18:03 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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FYI - here is a short video I made of my obviously worn relay arm (forgive referring to it as "control arm" on some of the captions... the price of trying to git 'er done). Keep in mind I was getting all the movement shown in the video by simply rotating the axle by grabbing and rotating the disc brake rotor back and forth... if yours is bad, it's dead easy to spot this way.
And I also agree that the way to remove a tapered joint is to always hit the part that the tapered joint is connected to - almost always this will pop it loose without drama. I do remember this giving me trouble when I swapped out my relay arm. I think I just used a pickle fork in the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jRxMjykiw4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jRxMjykiw4
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: Steering relay lever removal advice needed [message #265149 is a reply to message #265048] |
Thu, 30 October 2014 18:43 |
kingd
Messages: 592
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Re hitting things to get tapered end out.
I've found that two 2 pound short handle sledges work best.
If you are semi handy with both hands you can do it yourself.
With that hand you don't use to swing a hammer, hold 1 of the sledges
against the back side of the joint. Sharply smack the front side of the joint with the
other sledge. As has been stated leave the nut ON to avoid the surprise
when it all comes apart.
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Re: Steering relay lever removal advice needed [message #265269 is a reply to message #265048] |
Sat, 01 November 2014 22:25 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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The centerlink is the dumb end (female taper) you want to hit on the side. Theory us it distorts the roundness enough to release it. The OEM relay had one zerk. The end at the centerlink was pressed rubber and no zerk.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering relay lever removal advice needed [message #265273 is a reply to message #265269] |
Sun, 02 November 2014 04:01 |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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Was I the only one snickering about the placement of words:
John R. Lebetski wrote:
> [..]the dumb end (female[..]
Sorry for being absolutely childish, but I just could not resist.
--
Best regards
Peer Oliver Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
'76a Eleganza II, VA
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Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: Steering relay lever removal advice needed [message #265346 is a reply to message #265048] |
Mon, 03 November 2014 10:47 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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The smart end has the actual joint on it. For example on GM A body cars you replace the centerlink as it has 2 smart ends whereas on say on Tahoes the pitman and idler have the wear part, like the TZE.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Steering relay lever removal advice needed [message #265385 is a reply to message #265048] |
Mon, 03 November 2014 19:08 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Let me qualify that last statement. On the TZE the output end of the relay is a smart end. This location would be analogous to the pitman on a normal vehicle. Our Pitman at the box output has no smart end as both ends of the draglink are smart (stud).
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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