Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » 6.5 swap progress
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Re: 6.5 swap progress updated pictures [message #264419 is a reply to message #264409] |
Fri, 17 October 2014 11:06 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971 Registered: March 2013 Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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If you don't have a GMC, the prices are pretty good now and lots of them available. We've only had ours for about 18 months and love it and the community. If you're into cars or/camping/traveling, and can afford it, go for it IMHO.
The 4l80e is a modern electronic version of the th400 with a 25% overdrive. I was looking for a complete package with low end pull as well as low rev's at cruising speed for the enhanced mileage. The motor can be bolted to the original th425 with a simple adapter but you sacrifice either hi or low speed performance without the additional gearing. Of course doing it the th425 is a much simpler and less expensive way and probably within many peoples ability. And I'm sure will give excellent results. I've never followed the norm, always looking for a better (hopefully) way and not being afraid to give it a try. Maybe off bubble a little , who knows. Anyway, it's the approach I've taken and time will tell if it's right.
I'm running a 215/85/16 tires so the rpm's are slightly off the more popular 225/75/16.
215/75/16 tire;
55 mph 1869 in OD, 2492 in direct
60 mph 2039 in OD, 2719
65 mph 2209 in OD, 2946
70 mph 2379 in OD, 3172
225/75/16 tire
55 mph 1939 in OD, 2586 in direct
60 mph 2116 in OD, 2821
65 mph 2292 in OD, 3056
70 mph 2468 in OD, 3291
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
[Updated on: Fri, 17 October 2014 11:17] Report message to a moderator
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Re: 6.5 swap progress updated pictures [message #264420 is a reply to message #264419] |
Fri, 17 October 2014 11:21 |
tmsnyder
Messages: 151 Registered: January 2014
Karma: -9
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I am into cars, and camping, and traveling. Can I afford it? Yes but am I willing to part with $ to buy one? That's the question, and how much will it end up costing me? It seems very common to pick one up and then spend the next 10 years dumping $20,000 or more into it LOL I wouldn't do that though, at least I don't think I would...... maybe that's what everyone says when they buy one LOL
The 4L80E I know about b/c there's one in my suburban, I have that same engine and tranny. Would it have been possible to drive the differential from the output shaft for the front wheels from the transfer case? Or was the transmission from a 2wd truck? It looks like you are taking the output shaft for the rear wheels and sending it forward with some sort of gear drive? (Sorry I'm not familiar with it). I was just wondering if you could basically plug the rear output shaft and run the motorhome around with the front wheel drive portion of the transfer case? Or is it not heavy duty enough?
You're right though, that extra gear will be very nice to have, and the 4L80E is a great transmission.
Hal StClair wrote on Fri, 17 October 2014 11:06If you don't have a GMC, the prices are pretty good now and lots of them available. We've only had ours for about 18 months and love it and the community.If your into cars or/camping/traveling, and can afford it, go for it IMHO.
The 4l80e is a modern electronic version of the th400 with a 25% overdrive. I was looking for a complete package with low end pull as well as low rev's at cruising speed for the enhanced mileage. The motor can be bolted to the original th425 with a simple adapter but you sacrifice either hi or low speed performance without the additional gearing. Of course doing it the th425 is a much simpler and less expensive way and probably within many peoples ability. And I'm sure will give excellent results. I've never followed the norm, always looking for a better (hopefully) way and not being afraid to give it a try. Maybe off bubble a little , who knows. Anyway, it's the approach I've taken and time will tell if it's right.
I'm running a 215/85/16 tires so the rpm's are slightly off the more popular 225/75/16.
215/75/16 tire; 225/75/16 tire
55 mph 1869 rpm in OD, 2492 in direct 55 mph 1939 rpm in OD 2586 in direct
60 2039 2719 60 2116 2821
65 2209 2946 65 2292 3056
70 2379 3172 70 2468 3291
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II
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Re: 6.5 swap progress updated pictures [message #264427 is a reply to message #264420] |
Fri, 17 October 2014 12:53 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971 Registered: March 2013 Location: Rio Rancho NM
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Sorry, I should have entered the link again.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6691-6-5-engine-swap.html
The motor/trans are from a H1 Hummer so yes it is a 4x4 trans. The transfer case,a B/W unit was used behind a 454 in a Revcon MH but a NP205 would have worked as well I think. Most of the transfer cases built today probably couldn't handle constant power to the front and would have to have the center differential locked to send power forward.
I hear what you're saying on buying a 'project'. We paid more for a nice unit I figured wouldn't be a project, but....I installed a Manny one ton front and reaction arm rear, replaced the upper cabinets and all doors, built a new kitchen cabinet, built window boxes, replaced the carpet with laminate and replaced the air compressor and air valves, built a through bumper hitch, and added a new larger gray tank and macerator pump. So much for a 'turn key' rig. But I enjoy working on it and it has been pretty much trouble free.
The reason I'm building this on a separate frame is that it doesn't sideline the running GMC. I hope to get most of it mocked up and replace the whole thing at one time, we'll see.
One of the great things of owning a GMC is the community, they are always helpful. And parts and suppliers are available.Not trying to be a salesman, but it's certainly true.
Just mt thoughts,
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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Re: [GMCnet] 6.5 swap progress updated pictures [message #264781 is a reply to message #264772] |
Fri, 24 October 2014 12:14 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971 Registered: March 2013 Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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I'm afraid things are going to slow a bit. We are heading to Las Vegas for SEMA and then on to San Diego to drop off a prop I built for our grand daughters dance studio. We have Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays which fill the calender pretty well too. Then off to Indio for the FMCA rally and over to Quartzsite for probably a month. We may only have a couple of weeks to work on the project left this year.
Have ordered the cv half shafts for the 2012 front end and need to ship the outer cv's out to get axles made now that I have fixed dimensions.
It looks like it'll need a 2 9/16" spacer on the right side to keep both half shafts equal length.
I may start on the wiring harness and try to source a couple of electric connectors over the holidays. The plan is to keep it all electronic, hope I don't regret that direction. I like the potential fuel gains as well as the self diagnostics capabilities of the electronic engines. Time will tell.
Thanks for the interest everyone.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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Re: [GMCnet] 6.5 swap progress updated pictures [message #264809 is a reply to message #264781] |
Sat, 25 October 2014 17:34 |
lonestranger
Messages: 35 Registered: October 2012 Location: Bradenton FL
Karma: 0
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Hal StClair wrote on Fri, 24 October 2014 13:14I'm afraid things are going to slow a bit. We are heading to Las Vegas for SEMA and then on to San Diego to drop off a prop I built for our grand daughters dance studio. We have Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays which fill the calender pretty well too. Then off to Indio for the FMCA rally and over to Quartzsite for probably a month. We may only have a couple of weeks to work on the project left this year.
Have ordered the cv half shafts for the 2012 front end and need to ship the outer cv's out to get axles made now that I have fixed dimensions.
It looks like it'll need a 2 9/16" spacer on the right side to keep both half shafts equal length.
I may start on the wiring harness and try to source a couple of electric connectors over the holidays. The plan is to keep it all electronic, hope I don't regret that direction. I like the potential fuel gains as well as the self diagnostics capabilities of the electronic engines. Time will tell.
Thanks for the interest everyone.
Hal
When you were first doing the original layout of this project, did you give any thought to using the whole front frame clip from a 1 ton Chev/GMC 4X4, using the 454 big block, 4L80 transmission/transfer case and only the front driveshaft etc.? I know they used to build the so-called "wedge trucks", that were so popular with auto dealers, by cutting 1 ton 4X4 pickup apart right behind the cab, and using just the "front drive system" for motivation. They then stretched out the "rear frame" to what-ever length they wanted (depending on how many cars they wanted to haul) and used a Olds Toronado rear axle under the back of the frame. This gave them the HD front suspension, the OD transmission and the wiring package for the 454 that most used (with EFI). Just wondering! Your package however is looking good!!
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Re: [GMCnet] 6.5 swap progress updated pictures [message #264820 is a reply to message #264809] |
Sat, 25 October 2014 19:35 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691 Registered: March 2009 Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Senior Member |
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Richard
I'm on email and don't know where you live?
Mike in NS
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 7:35 PM, Richard Rath wrote:
> Hal StClair wrote on Fri, 24 October 2014 13:14
>> I'm afraid things are going to slow a bit. We are heading to Las Vegas
> for SEMA and then on to San Diego to drop off a prop I built for our grand
>> daughters dance studio. We have Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays
> which fill the calender pretty well too. Then off to Indio for the FMCA
> rally
>> and over to Quartzsite for probably a month. We may only have a couple
> of weeks to work on the project left this year.
>> Have ordered the cv half shafts for the 2012 front end and need to ship
> the outer cv's out to get axles made now that I have fixed dimensions.
>> It looks like it'll need a 2 9/16" spacer on the right side to keep both
> half shafts equal length.
>> I may start on the wiring harness and try to source a couple of electric
> connectors over the holidays. The plan is to keep it all electronic, hope
>> I don't regret that direction. I like the potential fuel gains as well
> as the self diagnostics capabilities of the electronic engines. Time will
>> tell.
>> Thanks for the interest everyone.
>> Hal
>
>
> When you were first doing the original layout of this project, did you
> give any thought to using the whole front frame clip from a 1 ton Chev/GMC
> 4X4,
> using the 454 big block, 4L80 transmission/transfer case and only the
> front driveshaft etc.? I know they used to build the so-called "wedge
> trucks",
> that were so popular with auto dealers, by cutting 1 ton 4X4 pickup apart
> right behind the cab, and using just the "front drive system" for
> motivation. They then stretched out the "rear frame" to what-ever length
> they wanted (depending on how many cars they wanted to haul) and used a Olds
> Toronado rear axle under the back of the frame. This gave them the HD
> front suspension, the OD transmission and the wiring package for the 454
> that
> most used (with EFI). Just wondering! Your package however is looking
> good!!
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
I am not an alcoholic; alcoholics go to meetings.
I am a drunk; I go to parties !
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GMCnet mailing list
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Re: [GMCnet] 6.5 swap progress updated pictures [message #264873 is a reply to message #264820] |
Sun, 26 October 2014 20:23 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971 Registered: March 2013 Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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I have a 1993 chevy 4x4 here I bought for parts and did look over using the whole clip but the dimensions don't work. We sit much too far forward for the pickup layout to work well. Jim Bounds at the Co-op did a step type van but the finished product was super expensive and only resembled a GMC, IMHO. I'm sure it is a great running rig but out of my price range. Mine is pushing the envelope for sure with a 2" body lift and an additional 4" step behind the existing one.
The 454/4l80e is a great package but I've always been a diesel geek and the 6.5 with 4l80e will be a great combo and probably pull 30% better fuel mileage. You don't see many fires starting with diesel and unlike gas, diesel will store for years if you don't introduce water to it. Today's gas can go bad in as little as 6 months. I put a 6.2l with home made turbo in a 32' Coachman that weighed almost 14,000 lbs and typically pulled 12-13 mpg. I sure hope to better that number with this setup.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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Re: [GMCnet] 6.5 swap progress updated pictures [message #264906 is a reply to message #264809] |
Mon, 27 October 2014 10:44 |
tmsnyder
Messages: 151 Registered: January 2014
Karma: -9
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Senior Member |
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You know what would be really nice about that would be the push button Low gear, for crawling around and getting parked in campgrounds which are sometimes steep and tight. That Low gear would be nice to have at the push of a button.
But the OP said the transfer case wouldn't be strong enough to run around full time on just the front wheels, and there's a differential that would have to be locked up between the front and the back (?) I don't know how these work though, I thought they were just a tough chain drive with no diff inside, I must be wrong, it happens a lot.
lonestranger wrote on Sat, 25 October 2014 17:34Hal StClair wrote on Fri, 24 October 2014 13:14I'm afraid things are going to slow a bit. We are heading to Las Vegas for SEMA and then on to San Diego to drop off a prop I built for our grand daughters dance studio. We have Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays which fill the calender pretty well too. Then off to Indio for the FMCA rally and over to Quartzsite for probably a month. We may only have a couple of weeks to work on the project left this year.
Have ordered the cv half shafts for the 2012 front end and need to ship the outer cv's out to get axles made now that I have fixed dimensions.
It looks like it'll need a 2 9/16" spacer on the right side to keep both half shafts equal length.
I may start on the wiring harness and try to source a couple of electric connectors over the holidays. The plan is to keep it all electronic, hope I don't regret that direction. I like the potential fuel gains as well as the self diagnostics capabilities of the electronic engines. Time will tell.
Thanks for the interest everyone.
Hal
When you were first doing the original layout of this project, did you give any thought to using the whole front frame clip from a 1 ton Chev/GMC 4X4, using the 454 big block, 4L80 transmission/transfer case and only the front driveshaft etc.? I know they used to build the so-called "wedge trucks", that were so popular with auto dealers, by cutting 1 ton 4X4 pickup apart right behind the cab, and using just the "front drive system" for motivation. They then stretched out the "rear frame" to what-ever length they wanted (depending on how many cars they wanted to haul) and used a Olds Toronado rear axle under the back of the frame. This gave them the HD front suspension, the OD transmission and the wiring package for the 454 that most used (with EFI). Just wondering! Your package however is looking good!!
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II
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Re: [GMCnet] 6.5 swap progress updated pictures [message #266387 is a reply to message #264906] |
Wed, 19 November 2014 22:30 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971 Registered: March 2013 Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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I didn't like the motor mounts I first built, it seemed to have more deflection than I liked and the load on the rubber mounts wasn't ideal. Going to the side frame rails improved both issues and simplified the installation.
I only have a couple of days between holiday trips so the progress is slower than I'd hoped.
I've updated the pictures.
Hal
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/u42137-hal-stclair.html
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
[Updated on: Wed, 19 November 2014 22:31] Report message to a moderator
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Re: [GMCnet] 6.5 swap progress updated pictures [message #267370 is a reply to message #266387] |
Tue, 09 December 2014 16:18 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971 Registered: March 2013 Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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I needed to build a spacer for the right side differential to keep both half shafts the same length. The front axle is off centered 1 9/32" to clear the pan, hence the spacer. Not much of a machinist but here's the result.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/u42137-hal-stclair.html
The half shafts are built and are being heat treated this week.
Looks like the upper radiator hose from a 2000 chevy cutaway van will fit like it grew there. My drawings for the fan shroud are done and I'll get an estimate from a sheet metal shop before deciding weather to build my own fiberglass shroud or have them build a metal one.
Slow progress during the Holidays I'm afraid.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
[Updated on: Tue, 09 December 2014 16:49] Report message to a moderator
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Re: 6.5 swap progress [message #267385 is a reply to message #263848] |
Tue, 09 December 2014 19:58 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565 Registered: July 2012 Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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That looks like it would work just fine Hal. I've often wondered if it would be a better solution on the 10 ton front ends to make spacers and use the stock 1 ton half shafts rather than have new ones custom made.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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Re: 6.5 swap progress [message #267391 is a reply to message #267385] |
Tue, 09 December 2014 22:47 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971 Registered: March 2013 Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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I wondered about doing that exact thing and not having axles built Kerry. But after doing the measuring, it would have required a 9 1/4" (long side) spacer.
Our GMC's are a lot wider than most vehicles so it's just about a custom build when we modify things. I know Manny gets a deal by buying in volume especially with his half shafts. My axles cost $225 each, without cv's. Manny sells a complete pair for about that amount. One off's are expensive. Oh well....
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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Re: 6.5 swap progress [message #267681 is a reply to message #267391] |
Tue, 16 December 2014 23:23 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971 Registered: March 2013 Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Did a little work modifing the lower control arms for the one ton. Thanks to the write ups on this board, it was pretty a simple task. Just a few shots of the result. Hal
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/u42137-hal-stclair.html
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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Re: 6.5 swap progress [message #270848 is a reply to message #267681] |
Fri, 30 January 2015 18:58 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971 Registered: March 2013 Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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Back in town and back to work on the swap. Posted some shots of the fan shroud and a new half shaft
. Rebuilt the transfer case with new bearings and changed gears around to configure it as an underdrive today. As geared it will have a 4.10 ratio in direct and 3.08 in OD.
Hal
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/u42137-hal-stclair.html
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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Re: 6.5 swap progress [message #271279 is a reply to message #270848] |
Fri, 06 February 2015 00:59 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971 Registered: March 2013 Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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Just a shot of the wire harness. Hope going the all electronic route works out as the trouble shooting of my harness might be a real can of worms. Lot and lots of wires. But the up side of electronics should be the performance and self diagnostics of the system when completed.
Looks like I may have an unexpected 3 week or so delay on some suspension parts. Oh well....
Hal
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/u42137-hal-stclair.html
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
[Updated on: Fri, 06 February 2015 11:53] Report message to a moderator
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Re: 6.5 swap progress [message #271302 is a reply to message #271279] |
Fri, 06 February 2015 11:56 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971 Registered: March 2013 Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Oops, posted the wrong link.
It's fixed now.
Hal
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/u42137-hal-stclair.html
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
[Updated on: Fri, 06 February 2015 11:57] Report message to a moderator
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