Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Gas or not to gas
| Gas or not to gas [message #264093] |
Sun, 12 October 2014 23:19  |
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Husker92592
Messages: 137
Registered: August 2013
Location: Temecula ca
Karma: -4
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Senior Member |
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GMCer's
So reading through these forums it seems we all have opinions fixes etc. what I am trying to figure out is there are many MH on the roads including ours and yet for some reason propane is evil and we should not use it in the coach! I understand there are 40 years of upgrades to complete such as new stove, new furnace, new water heater ( instantaneous). I would probably not go with a propane refer.but if the tank and the lines in the coach are still good then why not use propane?
Then there is refurbish the lp tank new SOV new regulator, replace all the copper?
Although to install a WH can be interesting but I have seen it done somewhere on the net and some switch out to a stove top and no oven. Atwood makes a nice modulating 15-22 buth furnace ( don't know how I am to install it yet) but I am confused. Gas or not to gas?
I see plenty of folks having issues with electrical and some #2 wire going from front to back of the coach and old wiring in general. Seems both electrical and propane are issues.
So reading through thr forum has confused me, I don't know what to do. Gas or electric?
Thanks
Grant
1974 GMC Sequoia 26'
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| Re: Gas or not to gas [message #264112 is a reply to message #264093] |
Mon, 13 October 2014 07:39  |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Grant - I bet the vast majority of GMCMH's are still using the original propane system. The #2 cable is 12 volt so no relation any high load electric uses such as AC, electric hot plates, cube heaters, water heaters, etc.
Please do not let the discussions on the GMCNet/forum scare you. This is the place where we talk about our problems. That does not mean every GMCMH has those problems. Also some have a higher level of concern than others.
If you are concerned abut the propane system then find a LP servicing shop and ask them for their opinion.
I have an original system. It works fine with no problems. Don't fall into the trap of "If it ain't broke, fix it until it is." You can go nuts chasing perceived problems. Save your efforts for real observed problems.
To answer your original question - both. As you get a feel for how you use your GMC there may be things you want to change.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gas or not to gas [message #264115 is a reply to message #264093] |
Mon, 13 October 2014 07:54 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Grant,
What you get here is the OPINIONS of people that for the most part have NEVER designed a motorhome (myself included). If you read my
posts you will note that I quite often refer to and rely on "what the OEM engineers did."
There were over 12,000 GMC's built and AFAIK all of them were equipped with propane and for the ones that still are equipped with
propane I'll bet the systems have the parts installed by the OEM.
People will cite the dangers of propane and I agree with them 100% IF the system is not maintained properly. Also you may run across
some "custom" installations made by PO's that don't have a clue when it comes to installing a propane system safely.
I have retained the propane systems in both Double Trouble and The Blue Streak; however, the OEM tank in The Blue Streak was
replaced with two BBQ bottles as the OEM tank was not certified by the Australian authorities. I could have replaced it with a tank
the same size, however, that would have been much more expensive.
There is no need to shotgun the system and replace all the components, carefully inspect each component to assure that it is in
serviceable condition. I removed the oven from Double Trouble and replaced it with a microwave with a convection oven and grill. I
used the OEM cooktop. The PO had replaced the furnace so that was OK. It has a 6 gallon electric water heater that I replaced
because the aluminum tank had corroded through and was leaking. I used a direct replacement because that was the easiest thing to
do. I like the idea of instantaneous water heaters but it was easier just to replace to OEM with a like unit. If you decide to
install an instantaneous system it is important to vent it properly. A number of owners have installed them on the wall of the
shower and I see no problem with that since they also installed Fantastic Fans and turn them on when they are taking a shower. I
like the propane fridge as it is a very efficient unit when running on propane, the one in Double Trouble is a two way (120VAC -
propane) the one in The Blue Streak is three way (240VAC - 12VDC - propane). AFAIK the propane tank SOV is OEM as is the regulator
as well. I did install a device that allows me to tap off the tank ahead of the regulator for my BBQ. Copper lines don't deteriorate
over time, they can chafe and wear.
In a forty year old coach you're going to have wiring problems, however, I am of the opinion there is nothing wrong with the wire
itself, it's with the connections. Ken Burton gave a seminar somewhere and noted that a lot of problems in the GMC come from bad
grounds. I asked if it would be a good idea to break, inspect, clean, and make every connection I could in the GMC and apply some
dielectric compound when I did so. He, and other electrically knowledgeable people, said YES!
Well there you go, I hope I have provided some logical, common sense advice.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Schaffer
GMCer's
So reading through these forums it seems we all have opinions fixes etc. what I am trying to figure out is there are many MH on the
roads including ours and yet for some reason propane is evil and we should not use it in the coach! I understand there are 40 years
of upgrades to complete such as new stove, new furnace, new water heater (instantaneous). I would probably not go with a propane
refer.but if the tank and the lines in the coach are still good then why not use propane?
Then there is refurbish the lp tank new SOV new regulator, replace all the copper?
Although to install a WH can be interesting but I have seen it done somewhere on the net and some switch out to a stove top and no
oven. Atwood makes a nice modulating 15-22 buth furnace (don't know how I am to install it yet) but I am confused. Gas or not to
gas?
I see plenty of folks having issues with electrical and some #2 wire going from front to back of the coach and old wiring in
general. Seems both electrical and propane are issues.
So reading through thr forum has confused me, I don't know what to do. Gas or electric?
Thanks
Grant
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Gas or not to gas [message #264202 is a reply to message #264093] |
Tue, 14 October 2014 06:47 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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Grant, I may have contributed to your angst over the propane when I asked about going all electric a couple weeks back. In my limited experience, I've learned that if you ask 10 GMCers what they think, you will probably get at least 12 opinions and 13 of those will be passionate. 
The ONLY essential upgrade is Eugene Fisher's (MrERF) Alternator Protection Cable. There are a lot of folks who drive, and are perfectly happy with, a bone stock GMC. And there are others who believe dang near everything HAS to be upgraded. And there are tinkerers like me who just like to make things. It's all good.
My reasoning for going all electric is all about cubic feet. There is a couple cubic feet taken up by the furnace and probably 10-12 in the propane compartment. That is a lot of space taken up by something we haven't used in the two years we've owned the coach. Given that we have no plans to travel to the frozen parts of this country in cold weather and don't dry camp, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to consume all those cubes hauling around propane. However, there were some good points made about emergency heat and such and now I'm thinking about going to a smaller propane tank or even a BBQ bottle. That would allow me to recover a good portion of the space and still keep the furnace for emergencies.
There isn't a single 'right' answer to this or much else...except the APC. If you don't have one, get one.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: Gas or not to gas [message #264207 is a reply to message #264093] |
Tue, 14 October 2014 07:36 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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The other side of the fence - I use my coach to take the dog to shows. When I can, I also attend rallies. I use the st0ve regularly, because the average show venue food is essentially fried grease and I'm diabetic. Between the stove and icebox, the propane is a godsend. I detest trying to cook on an electric stove. If I opt for more storage, the genset will be the first to go.
It comes down to how you use your coach and where.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gas or not to gas [message #264209 is a reply to message #264202] |
Tue, 14 October 2014 08:21 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Kerry,
I'm going to disagree that there is only one essential upgrade; I reckon every item in this document should be checked.
http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Mueller_GMCer-Fire-Guide.pdf
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: Kerry Pinkerton
Grant, I may have contributed to your angst over the propane when I asked about going all electric a couple weeks back. In my
limited experience, I've learned that if you ask 10 GMCers what they think, you will probably get at least 12 opinions and 13 of
those will be passionate. :)
The ONLY essential upgrade is Eugene Fisher's (MrERF) Alternator Protection Cable. There are a lot of folks who drive, and are
perfectly happy with, a bone stock GMC. And there are others who believe dang near everything HAS to be upgraded. And there are
tinkerers like me who just like to make things. It's all good.
My reasoning for going all electric is all about cubic feet. There is a couple cubic feet taken up by the furnace and probably
10-12 in the propane compartment. That is a lot of space taken up by something we haven't used in the two years we've owned the
coach. Given that we have no plans to travel to the frozen parts of this country in cold weather and don't dry camp, it just
doesn't make a lot of sense to consume all those cubes hauling around propane. However, there were some good points made about
emergency heat and such and now I'm thinking about going to a smaller propane tank or even a BBQ bottle. That would allow me to
recover a good portion of the space and still keep the furnace for emergencies.
There isn't a single 'right' answer to this or much else...except the APC. If you don't have one, get one.
--
Kerry
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GMCnet mailing list
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gas or not to gas [message #264210 is a reply to message #264209] |
Tue, 14 October 2014 08:38 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Heat of some sort is needed. Small heater cubes with working genset. Small LP bottle with installed sysetm. Electric blankets.
Bean Station can have cool nights.
Could always throw on an extra dog. Cats don't put out much heat. LOL
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: Gas or not to gas [message #264215 is a reply to message #264093] |
Tue, 14 October 2014 09:28 |
armandminnie
Messages: 864
Registered: May 2009
Location: Marana, AZ
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Your profile says Temecula, CA and you mentioned later in this thread that there is no mechanic around the corner to ask. There are a lot of GMC owners in Southern California and many of them belong to the Pacific Cruisers who are having a rally in less than a month in Anaheim. I am sure that they would be happy to meet and help a new GMC owner. Take a look at their web site for the location and the schedule: www.gmcpc.org
Armand Minnie
Marana, AZ
'76 Eleganza II TZE166V103202
visit my gmc blog
click here to visit gmcws.org
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| Re: Gas or not to gas [message #264234 is a reply to message #264093] |
Tue, 14 October 2014 14:55 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Husker92592 wrote on Sun, 12 October 2014 21:19... I understand there are 40 years of upgrades to complete such as ...
... I see plenty of folks having issues with electrical and some #2 wire going from front to back of the coach and old wiring in general. Seems both electrical and propane are issues.
So reading through thr forum has confused me, I don't know what to do. Gas or electric?
Grant,
As others have stated, there is no one size fits all answer to the "propane or all electric" question. It is all in how you plan to use your coach. I personally think all coaches should be able to boon-dock fairly comfortable for at least one night... in any weather that they are likely to ever see. That would mean below freezing for most coaches. For most that capability will mean some type of propane.
I also think that for coaches in our size and price range (IE: not a Marathon type coach) an all electric coach will have a slightly lower resell value, as the coach's use is more restricted. (But as most do not plan to sell in their life-time... who cares?) Note that this is just my opinion.
Now to the main reason to reply:
I see from your sig that you have a 1974 coach. As an early (pre' 75) coach it was up-fitted by GM (or GM contractor) that would mean your coach came with an ALL ELECTRIC refrigerator. (And water heater.) Some of the other up fitters installed propane refrigerators and water-heaters. NONE of the GM up-fitted coaches came with a refer cabinet designed to have propane. They should have some type of "drain" to let any leaked propane exit the coach. On my '73, I installed an actual sink drain pipe in the corner of the wheel well. My other two coaches (up-fitted by Coachman) have refer cabinets with the floor level with the bottom of the cabinet. designed for propane, they have no pockets to collect propane fumes.
Also, 1973/74 coaches did not leave GM with a large cable (the #2 wire) running to the rear of the coach. If you have one, it was added later, but still should be inspected as it is even more likely to have issues due to "PO" installation. The "#2 wire" problem is for 1975 and later GM up-fitted coaches only. (Palm Beach, Eleganza, Kingsley, Glenbrook and the like.)
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: Gas or not to gas [message #270834 is a reply to message #264093] |
Fri, 30 January 2015 15:35 |
Chris Tyler
Messages: 458
Registered: September 2013
Location: Odessa FL
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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A manometer is inexpensive and an easy way to verify your regulated pressure and check for leaks. On the high side of the reg, a soap solution will find a leak quickly.
There are millions of RVs running around with LP systems, including some very old ones...not just GMCs.
There is always a risk which can be contained with frequent checks and a fire controll sustem as a backup.
76 Glenbrook
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| Re: Gas or not to gas [message #270835 is a reply to message #270834] |
Fri, 30 January 2015 15:48 |
Neil
Messages: 271
Registered: July 2007
Location: Los Angeles and Magalia, ...
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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We (used to) dry camp about half the time. First day hot water from the drive. After that,. fire up the Onan and hot water in maybe 15 minutes. We like to cook and the stove top and oven are constantly in use. We put in a new propane blower style heater and it only need to run for 5 minutes and we are always toasty warm. Have a 3 way refrigerator and that works perfect.
So, YMMV but I wouldn't change a thing.
Neil
76 Eleganza now sold
Los Angeles
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| Re: Gas or not to gas [message #270928 is a reply to message #264093] |
Sun, 01 February 2015 03:54 |
Gatsbys' Cruiser
Messages: 91
Registered: August 2014
Location: Illinois
Karma: 0
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If you are going to consider a change you need to think if you actually need it.
Some coaches have gone all electric.
They may use their generators for the power needed. A inverter is available but no good for AirCon use and the inverter will use the power in the batts pretty quickly, I'd give them a day or two, conservatively.
SOLAR... I am a fan of solar but, you need a huge array on the roof if you use a lot of power and, NO AirCon. You can help the system by changing to LED lights and keep your frig and stove and heat on propane. Of course there are different configurations.
IF YOU PLAN TO DRY CAMP A LOT..... I think propane is the way to go. Propane frig, stove and furnace. the frig takes little battery power unless the edge heaters are on, the oem stove uses no power.
The furnace blower will drain your battery but there are some heaters that use propane and have no blower. They come with oxygen depletion sensors that shut off the gas if the oxy level should change, such as when you forget to open a window for some air. Don't forget to open a window for some air.
A Solar panel or two to help the battery stay charged is not a bad idea or you will be running the generator daily.
I have the furnace and someone out there had made some add-on relay/electronics to shut down the furnace if the battery level was low. It would shut down before your battery power would be used to a point of low power and would be stranded. Don't know if that is still available anymore. But I wouldn't give the battery a day on furnace heat. If you will be a heavy boon docker, find alternate heat.
LOL, a wood stove would be perfect but we are talking about the GMC here, not a lot of room. I just threw that in there for a chuckle.
those are just my thoughts, your brand may vary, batteries not included, no warrentee implied, use at your own risk.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gas or not to gas [message #270929 is a reply to message #270928] |
Sun, 01 February 2015 05:43 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Just right
Stan
>
>
> The furnace blower will drain your battery
i find dry camping, there is no reason to heat the whole coach at night,
we use a 12 volt blanket that only stays on for an hour.
this warms the bed, and you can use it as needed during the night ( much
less 12 volts)
> but there are some heaters that use propane and have no blower. They come
> with oxygen depletion sensors
> that shut off the gas if the oxy level should change, such as when you
> forget to open a window for some air. Don't forget to open a window for
> some
> air.
> A Solar panel or two to help the battery stay charged is not a bad idea or
> you will be running the generator daily.
>
>
PROPANE FOREVER!!!
- convert your onan
- no more carbon
- you are ready for the new diesel
- no gas smell
- no worries about low gas level
read here
http://gmcmotorhome.info/generator.html#dual
> no warrentee implied, use at your own risk.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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