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more black water capacity [message #263203] Thu, 02 October 2014 19:52 Go to next message
bpimm is currently offline  bpimm   United States
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I would like to have more black water capacity, we use the coach as a tow vehicle for our play car, we autocross, hill climb and run track events with it and the GMC is the way to get there and the place to stay. None of the places we go have RV facilities and at most of the events we are the organizers so I don't have time to run out and find a place to dump. With the 24 Gallon waste tank it doesn't make it through a 4 day weekend without needing to be dumped. It also leaks when full so it needs to be replaced so I'm thinking of a bigger tank to help get us through the longer weekends.

It would be nice to be able to take 12 showers and still have the capacity to handle whatever cooking and washing needs to be done. That would be 4 people taking 1 shower a day for 3 days.

Has anybody found a large tank that will fit the GMC frame? Filling the space the small tank is in now would be around 50 Gallons which would work good for us.

If that is to much weight to pack around there are dump sites fairly close on most of our venues so I could dump on the way out.

Thoughts?



Brian & RaeDean 1973 26' #383 Washougal WA
Re: more black water capacity [message #263205 is a reply to message #263203] Thu, 02 October 2014 20:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mike miller   United States
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bpimm wrote on Thu, 02 October 2014 17:52
I would like to have more black water capacity, ...
...
It would be nice to be able to take 12 showers and still have the capacity to handle whatever cooking and washing needs to be done. ...


Sounds to me like what you actually need is SOME grey water capacity. Nothing listed NEEDS to go into the black tank. It would be easier to add a grey tank than find and install a larger black tank.

While you are at it, install a macerator. With two tanks (black/grey) it is very easy to dump the black then clean out the hose by dumping the soapy water from the grey tank. Options on how and where you can dump are greatly expanded with the macerator. (It is theoretically possible to dump into some other RV's toilet and fill thier black tank... Twisted Evil )


Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo' http://m000035.blogspot.com
Re: more black water capacity [message #263206 is a reply to message #263205] Thu, 02 October 2014 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bpimm is currently offline  bpimm   United States
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Thought about that as well, how do you plumb the grey water into a separate tank when the shower drain is so close to the toilet drain? I already have a macerator just waiting to be installed.


Brian & RaeDean 1973 26' #383 Washougal WA
Re: [GMCnet] more black water capacity [message #263208 is a reply to message #263203] Thu, 02 October 2014 20:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kelvin is currently offline  kelvin   United States
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On 10/2/2014 5:52 PM, Brian Pimm wrote:
> I would like to have more black water capacity, we use the coach as a tow vehicle for our play car, we autocross, hill climb and run track events with
> it and the GMC is the way to get there and the place to stay. None of the places we go have RV facilities and at most of the events we are the
> organizers so I don't have time to run out and find a place to dump. With the 24 Gallon waste tank it doesn't make it through a 4 day weekend without needing to be dumped.

24 gallons sounds small. Where did you get that number?



> It would be nice to be able to take 12 showers and still have the capacity to handle whatever cooking and washing needs to be done. That would be 4 people taking 1 shower a day for 3 days.

And 4 people using the toilet, too.
>
> Has anybody found a large tank that will fit the GMC frame? Filling the space the small tank is in now would be around 50 Gallons which would work good for us.

I'd be tempted to figure out how to install a gray water tank and plumb
the shower and sinks into that. My PO actually built one from 4" PCV
pipe that fits under the bed but it only drains the sinks, not the
shower. If you could get a gray water tank under the floor you could
plumb the shower into it.

Also an option to use an external gray water tank that could be dumped
(at night when nobody is looking) in the woods or into a manhole cover.
Not that I'd advise that, ever...

I think your black water tank is larger than 24 gallons, though.
Probably not 12 showers and 4 people worth, though.

Kelvin
'73 23' in Eugene, OR
Who doesn't autocross or hillclimb anymore.
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Re: more black water capacity [message #263210 is a reply to message #263203] Thu, 02 October 2014 20:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
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bpimm wrote on Thu, 02 October 2014 19:52
I would like to have more black water capacity, we use the coach as a tow vehicle for our play car, we autocross, hill climb and run track events with it and the GMC is the way to get there and the place to stay. None of the places we go have RV facilities and at most of the events we are the organizers so I don't have time to run out and find a place to dump. With the 24 Gallon waste tank it doesn't make it through a 4 day weekend without needing to be dumped. It also leaks when full so it needs to be replaced so I'm thinking of a bigger tank to help get us through the longer weekends.

It would be nice to be able to take 12 showers and still have the capacity to handle whatever cooking and washing needs to be done. That would be 4 people taking 1 shower a day for 3 days.

Has anybody found a large tank that will fit the GMC frame? Filling the space the small tank is in now would be around 50 Gallons which would work good for us.

If that is to much weight to pack around there are dump sites fairly close on most of our venues so I could dump on the way out.

Thoughts?
My 73 Operating Manual says the OEM holding tank was 40 gallons. Why is yours 24? If you are going to replace it, get a 40 gallon one. Also, stop taking showers and start taking bird baths. Why do Americans look for ways to waste everything? Learn how to cut back. My CFO runs the water while brushing her teeth, so the kids do too. What's up with that?
Re: more black water capacity [message #263212 is a reply to message #263203] Thu, 02 October 2014 20:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lqqkatjon is currently offline  lqqkatjon   United States
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someone at GMCMI convention, built a plywood/epoxy type of extra capacity holding tank. I wish I had a chance to see it.

I have a similar issue with not enough black tank capacity, because I camp with 2 daughters and my wife. I installed a new GMC 1 tank this spring, and without testing, I think there is less capacity, even though it fit like original. but maybe because my kids are a year older, they are using more water?

Anyhow, here are my suggestions to you... 1st, pull the tank and check it out.. see where your leak is, and maybe you can repair that, so it does not leak when full. However, it might be better for it to leak out under the coach when it is full, rather then over flow into the shower if it fills up.

my other suggestions are as follows:
1. hole saw another drain into the shower, and plum it of to the side so it either drains off to the ground, or you can maybe hook a hose to drain it to wherever. and when you are showering in location where you can just have the water hit the ground, do so. that should allow more showers. but some places and people frown on that practice.

2. install one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Thetford-Exterior-Shower-Box-Head/dp/B002UC10ZA/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1412299388&sr=8-12&keywords=rv+outside+showe r

and buy one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Stansport-Cabana-Privacy-Shelter-Green/dp/B0006V2B4G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412299482&sr=8-1&keywords=outside+showe r+tent

then just shower outside, water hits the ground.

other suggestion, would be with a macerator installation, build a holding tank into your trailer for your car. and then you can easily pump the water from the GMC to the holding tank on the trailer.



Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
Re: [GMCnet] more black water capacity [message #263213 is a reply to message #263208] Thu, 02 October 2014 20:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lqqkatjon is currently offline  lqqkatjon   United States
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Also an option to use an external gray water tank that could be dumped
(at night when nobody is looking) in the woods or into a manhole cover.
Not that I'd advise that, ever...



Please try the woods.. do not dump into manholes... I have to work in those occasionally.
Confused


Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

[Updated on: Thu, 02 October 2014 20:46]

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Re: [GMCnet] more black water capacity [message #263215 is a reply to message #263208] Thu, 02 October 2014 20:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bpimm is currently offline  bpimm   United States
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Kelvin Dietz wrote on Thu, 02 October 2014 18:12

24 gallons sounds small. Where did you get that number?


Measured it and calculated 49 X 23 X 5 the 5 is a guesstimate for the average depth, then I compared it to one on Applied's site that is 51x6x36 and 30 Gallons for a reference.

Kelvin Dietz wrote on Thu, 02 October 2014 18:12

And 4 people using the toilet, too.


Maybe on the toilet, we have porta potties for the event so the MH toilet would only be night use.

Kelvin Dietz wrote on Thu, 02 October 2014 18:12
I'd be tempted to figure out how to install a gray water tank and plumb
the shower and sinks into that. My PO actually built one from 4" PCV
pipe that fits under the bed but it only drains the sinks, not the
shower. If you could get a gray water tank under the floor you could
plumb the shower into it.

Also an option to use an external gray water tank that could be dumped
(at night when nobody is looking) in the woods or into a manhole cover.
Not that I'd advise that, ever...

I think your black water tank is larger than 24 gallons, though.
Probably not 12 showers and 4 people worth, though.

Kelvin
'73 23' in Eugene, OR
Who doesn't autocross or hillclimb anymore.


I like the idea of separate tanks, it would be a lot easier to just drop the 3 drains into the top of a single tank tho.
The portable tank crossed my mind but it's just another thing to have to fit in, I'd prefer a fixed tank that would do the job.


Brian & RaeDean 1973 26' #383 Washougal WA
Re: more black water capacity [message #263216 is a reply to message #263210] Thu, 02 October 2014 21:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bpimm is currently offline  bpimm   United States
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A Hamilto wrote on Thu, 02 October 2014 18:21
My 73 Operating Manual says the OEM holding tank was 40 gallons. Why is yours 24? If you are going to replace it, get a 40 gallon one. Also, stop taking showers and start taking bird baths. Why do Americans look for ways to waste everything? Learn how to cut back. My CFO runs the water while brushing her teeth, so the kids do too. What's up with that?


Probably replaced by a PO, if I could find a 40 gal that would fit I'd do it.
I think my shower is about a gallon of water but the others.....Smile


Brian & RaeDean 1973 26' #383 Washougal WA

[Updated on: Thu, 02 October 2014 21:11]

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Re: more black water capacity [message #263217 is a reply to message #263212] Thu, 02 October 2014 21:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bpimm is currently offline  bpimm   United States
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Most of the places we camp are on asphalt so I can't use the outdoor shower most of the time, but I think I will have one eventually. I like the tank on the trailer idea I'll haavve to look at that.

lqqkatjon wrote on Thu, 02 October 2014 18:28
someone at GMCMI convention, built a plywood/epoxy type of extra capacity holding tank. I wish I had a chance to see it.

I have a similar issue with not enough black tank capacity, because I camp with 2 daughters and my wife. I installed a new GMC 1 tank this spring, and without testing, I think there is less capacity, even though it fit like original. but maybe because my kids are a year older, they are using more water?

Anyhow, here are my suggestions to you... 1st, pull the tank and check it out.. see where your leak is, and maybe you can repair that, so it does not leak when full. However, it might be better for it to leak out under the coach when it is full, rather then over flow into the shower if it fills up.

my other suggestions are as follows:
1. hole saw another drain into the shower, and plum it of to the side so it either drains off to the ground, or you can maybe hook a hose to drain it to wherever. and when you are showering in location where you can just have the water hit the ground, do so. that should allow more showers. but some places and people frown on that practice.

2. install one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Thetford-Exterior-Shower-Box-Head/dp/B002UC10ZA/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1412299388&sr=8-12&keywords=rv+outside+showe r

and buy one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Stansport-Cabana-Privacy-Shelter-Green/dp/B0006V2B4G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412299482&sr=8-1&keywords=outside+showe r+tent

then just shower outside, water hits the ground.

other suggestion, would be with a macerator installation, build a holding tank into your trailer for your car. and then you can easily pump the water from the GMC to the holding tank on the trailer.




Brian & RaeDean 1973 26' #383 Washougal WA
Re: [GMCnet] more black water capacity [message #263218 is a reply to message #263213] Thu, 02 October 2014 21:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bpimm is currently offline  bpimm   United States
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lqqkatjon wrote on Thu, 02 October 2014 18:32

Also an option to use an external gray water tank that could be dumped
(at night when nobody is looking) in the woods or into a manhole cover.
Not that I'd advise that, ever...



Please try the woods.. do not dump into manholes... I have to work in those occasionally.
Confused


I used to have to do that on occasion too. watching the "debris" float by was not a nice experience.


Brian & RaeDean 1973 26' #383 Washougal WA
Re: [GMCnet] more black water capacity [message #263219 is a reply to message #263218] Thu, 02 October 2014 21:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
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Royales have 2 tanks, I know I have one Smile
It's a lot of water but one long shower and I bet you'd still fill it.


Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
Re: more black water capacity [message #263222 is a reply to message #263203] Thu, 02 October 2014 21:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
peter bailey is currently offline  peter bailey   Australia
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Because here in Australia we are not allowed to have a large lpg cylinder as original to the GMC I removed it and fitted a smaller tank further up nearer the kitchen and on the left side and in place of the old gas cylinder I installed a vacuum toilet (similar to airoplanes) which has a removable cartridge for emptying accessable from the outside hatch, that freed up my black tank to be a grey tank which can be emptied almost anywhere. All that is necessary is to cap the original toilet outlet below the floor and the new toilet pipes are straight out the back of the bathroom pod via piping to the vacuum unit.
Peter Bailey
from Ozy (Aussie)

Re: more black water capacity [message #263225 is a reply to message #263203] Thu, 02 October 2014 22:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adrien G. is currently offline  Adrien G.   United States
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bpimm wrote on Thu, 02 October 2014 19:52
I would like to have more black water capacity, we use the coach as a tow vehicle for our play car, we autocross, hill climb and run track events with it and the GMC is the way to get there and the place to stay. None of the places we go have RV facilities and at most of the events we are the organizers so I don't have time to run out and find a place to dump. With the 24 Gallon waste tank it doesn't make it through a 4 day weekend without needing to be dumped. It also leaks when full so it needs to be replaced so I'm thinking of a bigger tank to help get us through the longer weekends.

It would be nice to be able to take 12 showers and still have the capacity to handle whatever cooking and washing needs to be done. That would be 4 people taking 1 shower a day for 3 days.

Has anybody found a large tank that will fit the GMC frame? Filling the space the small tank is in now would be around 50 Gallons which would work good for us.

If that is to much weight to pack around there are dump sites fairly close on most of our venues so I could dump on the way out.

Thoughts?






Brian,

The black tank measures out to be about 30 gal max ( no way the OEM tank can be 40 gal.), but how it was installed can cause to loose some capacity,
I removed mine to repair the tank leaks and found that the top was caved in about 2 inches and bowed side to side about 1 1/2 inch on both sides.

After the repair I closed the openings, used heat and a little air pressure to push the top up. When installing the tank don't over tighten the tank bars,
use nuts on top and bottom of the bars, make brackets to hold up the side lips. The toilet tube has a lot to do with holding the tank top up.
I had to shorten my toilet tube by 2 1/2 inches. Now the capacity is 28 gal to the bottom of the toilet tube, a gain of about 4 gal.

I feel that an about 25 gal gray tank could be put where the main gas tank location is, by moving the 2 gas tanks forward.

FWIW





Adrien & Jenny Genesoto 75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
Re: more black water capacity [message #263231 is a reply to message #263225] Thu, 02 October 2014 22:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
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Adrien G. wrote on Thu, 02 October 2014 22:10
...The black tank measures out to be about 30 gal max (no way the OEM tank can be 40 gal) ...
Operating Manual X-7321A, © General Motors Corporation, Page 120:

"Living Area Water Tank . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 Gal.
Holding Tank . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .40 Gal."

Could be a misprint. Could be an exaggeration. I dunno, but the manual says 40 gallons. The Operating Manual FOR YOUR 1975 model says it came with a 32 gallon holding tank (and a 40 gallon fresh water tank - talk about a problem waiting to happen). The standard GMC waste tank Jim K. sells is 30 gallons.
Re: more black water capacity [message #263238 is a reply to message #263222] Thu, 02 October 2014 23:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zhagrieb is currently offline  zhagrieb   United States
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Peter, what brand and model is your vacuum toilet?

Glenn


Glenn Giere, Portland OR, K7GAG '73 "Moby the Motorhome" 26'

[Updated on: Thu, 02 October 2014 23:07]

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Re: more black water capacity [message #263246 is a reply to message #263231] Fri, 03 October 2014 03:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
midlf is currently offline  midlf   United States
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A Hamilto wrote on Thu, 02 October 2014 22:42
Adrien G. wrote on Thu, 02 October 2014 22:10
...The black tank measures out to be about 30 gal max (no way the OEM tank can be 40 gal) ...
Operating Manual X-7321A, © General Motors Corporation, Page 120:

"Living Area Water Tank . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 Gal.
Holding Tank . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .40 Gal."

Could be a misprint. Could be an exaggeration. I dunno, but the manual says 40 gallons. The Operating Manual FOR YOUR 1975 model says it came with a 32 gallon holding tank (and a 40 gallon fresh water tank - talk about a problem waiting to happen). The standard GMC waste tank Jim K. sells is 30 gallons.


If I had to guess that was GM's original desired and specified capacity. Would that be great. My new holding tank from applied is 22 gallons as measured after installation. Fresh water tank is measured at 32 gallons. I did not measure the capacity of the shower floor.

I suspect my low capacity is the bowed top and I have it clamped up tight so there is no movement. The low capacity is not a problem when traveling as we have a working Thermosan. Parked for a week at GMCMI CF it took 4 trips to the dump station. Not too bad a job with the macerator. I hope I never have to use my emergency 3" big stinky.


Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
Re: more black water capacity [message #263247 is a reply to message #263203] Fri, 03 October 2014 06:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
g.winger is currently offline  g.winger   United States
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Bpimm,,, I didn't like the grey tank being full after 2 days of dry camping. Soooo,,,, I installed a 50 gal grey and a 40 gal black tank. Can't remember who I got the tanks from but they have a huge seleltion. But,,, it makes the bottom of the tank relly low. At the International rallys I dump when i leave and never travel far with these full. I'll look at my old posts and search my records. Maybe????
Re: more black water capacity [message #263249 is a reply to message #263203] Fri, 03 October 2014 07:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wally is currently offline  wally   United States
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bpimm wrote on Thu, 02 October 2014 19:52
I would like to have more black water capacity, we use the coach as a tow vehicle for our play car, we autocross, hill climb and run track events with it and the GMC is the way to get there and the place to stay. None of the places we go have RV facilities and at most of the events we are the organizers so I don't have time to run out and find a place to dump. With the 24 Gallon waste tank it doesn't make it through a 4 day weekend without needing to be dumped. It also leaks when full so it needs to be replaced so I'm thinking of a bigger tank to help get us through the longer weekends.

It would be nice to be able to take 12 showers and still have the capacity to handle whatever cooking and washing needs to be done. That would be 4 people taking 1 shower a day for 3 days.

Has anybody found a large tank that will fit the GMC frame? Filling the space the small tank is in now would be around 50 Gallons which would work good for us.

If that is to much weight to pack around there are dump sites fairly close on most of our venues so I could dump on the way out.

Thoughts?


Some have installed two drains in the shower floor and run the other drain somewhere other than the black tank. Select which drain to use with a plug.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/snaking-gray-water-out-of-coach/p20585-drain-installed.html
There is enough room between the shower floor and coach floor for the pipe
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/power-level-valve-fitting/p27905-shower-trap.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/power-level-valve-fitting/p27906-shower-drain-pipe.html
HTH


Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook
Re: more black water capacity [message #263252 is a reply to message #263247] Fri, 03 October 2014 08:37 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
bpimm is currently offline  bpimm   United States
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g.winger wrote on Fri, 03 October 2014 04:37
Bpimm,,, I didn't like the grey tank being full after 2 days of dry camping. Soooo,,,, I installed a 50 gal grey and a 40 gal black tank. Can't remember who I got the tanks from but they have a huge seleltion. But,,, it makes the bottom of the tank relly low. At the International rallys I dump when i leave and never travel far with these full. I'll look at my old posts and search my records. Maybe????


Hope you can find the info, also pics would be great, I'd like to see how you fit them in.



Brian & RaeDean 1973 26' #383 Washougal WA
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