Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Stainless Steel (18-8 or 316?)
| Stainless Steel [message #262360] |
Sat, 20 September 2014 07:23  |
mickey szilagyi
Messages: 273
Registered: January 2013
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We're about to order stainless carriage bolts for our rear bumper that will be reinstalled during our Merrell hitch installation later this fall. We will order the 316 stainless bolts. But there are also 18-8 stainless bolts available that are less than 1/2 the price. I'm curious - what's the difference? I didn't realize there were different stainless options. I also noticed in looking for "bumper bolts" some are not completely stainless but are "capped" with stainless steel.
Mickey
1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
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| Re: Stainless Steel [message #262363 is a reply to message #262360] |
Sat, 20 September 2014 07:45  |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
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I'm no metals engineer, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night...
18-8 is a generic term for a 300 series stainless alloys, 316 is a specific stainless alloy that would be "16-10" if called out the same way.
From Portland Bolt:
"...The term "18-8″ is often used to designate products made from 300 series stainless. This "18-8″ call out is referring to the 18% chromium/8% nickel alloy mixture of the steel. "18-8″ is not an actual specification, as it only refers to two different alloys in the steel. While all 300 series stainless steels share this 18/8 mix, slight differences in chemical composition between the different grades of the 300 series do make certain grades more resistant than others against particular types of corrosion. In the fastener industry the term "18-8″ is often used as a designation for a bolt, nut, or washer manufactured from 300 series stainless steel material that has the 18% chromium/8% nickel alloy mixture. However, a fastener manufactured from stainless material that meets the 18/8 alloy mix does not necessarily meet the other slight differences in chemistry required to certify it as Type 304 stainless. Type 304 is by far the most popular of the 300 series stainless steels.
The second most popular type of stainless, after Type 304, is Type 316. In Type 316 stainless, the chromium content is lowered from 18% to 16%, however, the nickel content is raised to 10% and 2% molybdenum is added to the mixture. This change in the chromium/nickel ratio and the addition of the molybdenum increases the resistance to chlorides. This is why Type 316 stainless is often used in more corrosive environments where the material will be exposed to chemical, solvent, or salt water corrosion and makes it the preferred material for marine construction.
Although fasteners can (and often are) ordered as simply Type 304 or Type 316 stainless, the actual ASTM specifications that cover stainless steel fasteners are A193, A320, and F593. A discussion of the differences between these ASTM specifications can be found in another FAQ.
- See more at: http://www.portlandbolt.com/faqs/18-8-304-and-316-stainless-steel/#sthash.YxUneE5R.dpuf..."
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Stainless Steel [message #262364 is a reply to message #262360] |
Sat, 20 September 2014 07:40 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
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Make sure whatever kind of stainless bolts you select have a different strain of stainless for the nuts. Identical stainless grade between nuts and bolts are more likely to seize.
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
> On Sep 20, 2014, at 5:23 AM, Mickey Szilagyi wrote:
>
> We're about to order stainless carriage bolts for our rear bumper that will be reinstalled during our Merrell hitch installation later this fall. We
> will order the 316 stainless bolts. But there are also 18-8 stainless bolts available that are less than 1/2 the price. I'm curious - what's the
> difference? I didn't realize there were different stainless options. I also noticed in looking for "bumper bolts" some are not completely stainless
> but are "capped" with stainless steel.
> --
> Mickey
> 1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: Stainless Steel [message #262365 is a reply to message #262360] |
Sat, 20 September 2014 07:54 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
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In coastal NC, even 305 will tinge with rust --sometimes in less than a year. I'll use it where it doesn't show but I still want to be able to un-fasten it in the future for repairs, etc. for me, only 316 (commonly called 'marine grade' --but you ave to be careful of unethical marketers using the 'marine' term) unless I just can't find anything but 305.
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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| Re: Stainless Steel [message #262367 is a reply to message #262360] |
Sat, 20 September 2014 08:29 |
mickey szilagyi
Messages: 273
Registered: January 2013
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Thanks everyone! Lots of info, interesting. Sounds like it's a matter of corrosion resistance rather than strength. We do use Tef-Gel anti-seize on all our stainless applications especially when we use stainless on regular steel.
Mickey
1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Stainless Steel [message #262368 is a reply to message #262363] |
Sat, 20 September 2014 08:28 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Joe,
Good find on the write-up from Portland bolt!
During my ground support building days a the JSC the fittings and tubing used was 316 SS because it was the most corrosion
resistant.
After building a test stand it would be disassembled and the parts sent to cleaning where the SS would be pickled, passivated, and
cleaned. Pickling and passivating made the SS even more resistant to corrosion.
IIRC 304 SS is stronger I'm too lazy to look that up and verify it.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Weir
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 7:45 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Stainless Steel
I'm no metals engineer, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night...
18-8 is a generic term for a 300 series stainless alloys, 316 is a specific stainless alloy that would be "16-10" if called out the
same way.
From Portland Bolt:
"...The term "18-8″ is often used to designate products made from 300 series stainless. This "18-8″ call out is referring to the
18% chromium/8% nickel alloy mixture of the steel. "18-8″ is not an actual specification, as it only refers to two different alloys
in the steel. While all 300 series stainless steels share this 18/8 mix, slight differences in chemical composition between the
different grades of the 300 series do make certain grades more resistant than others against particular types of corrosion. In the
fastener industry the term "18-8″ is often used as a designation for a bolt, nut, or washer manufactured from 300 series stainless
steel material that has the 18% chromium/8% nickel alloy mixture. However, a fastener manufactured from stainless material that
meets the 18/8 alloy mix does not necessarily meet the other slight differences in chemistry required to certify it as Type 304
stainless. Type 304 is by far the most popular of the 300 series stainless steels.
The second most popular type of stainless, after Type 304, is Type 316. In Type 316 stainless, the chromium content is lowered from
18% to 16%, however, the nickel content is raised to 10% and 2% molybdenum is added to the mixture. This change in the
chromium/nickel ratio and the addition of the molybdenum increases the resistance to chlorides. This is why Type 316 stainless is
often used in more corrosive environments where the material will be exposed to chemical, solvent, or salt water corrosion and makes
it the preferred material for marine construction.
Although fasteners can (and often are) ordered as simply Type 304 or Type 316 stainless, the actual ASTM specifications that cover
stainless steel fasteners are A193, A320, and F593. A discussion of the differences between these ASTM specifications can be found
in another FAQ.
- See more at: http://www.portlandbolt.com/faqs/18-8-304-and-316-stainless-steel/#sthash.YxUneE5R.dpuf..."
--
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Stainless Steel [message #262369 is a reply to message #262367] |
Sat, 20 September 2014 08:43 |
powwerjon
Messages: 849
Registered: March 2013
Karma: -2
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Mickey,
As a GMC Vendor, I sell a SS bolt kit for the bumpers. My Kit with 32 bolts, lock washers and nuts sells for $44.00 plus shipping while my present stock last and I am the lowest cost anywhere in the US. I have been selling this kit at GMCMI and GMCGL rallies for 10+ years. They are not polished, but mill finish and look great on you coach. Polishing runs another $2 per bolt and add about a week to delivery, but in my opinion is not needed. Email or call me a 9 eight 9 8 5 nine-zero 7 one 5.
J.R. Wright
The Bumper Bolt Guy
powerjon1945@hotmail.com
Michigan
On Sep 20, 2014, at 9:29 AM, Mickey Szilagyi wrote:
> Thanks everyone! Lots of info, interesting. Sounds like it's a matter of corrosion resistance rather than strength. We do use Tef-Gel anti-seize on
> all our stainless applications especially when we use stainless on regular steel.
> --
> Mickey
> 1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Stainless Steel [message #262370 is a reply to message #262369] |
Sat, 20 September 2014 09:12 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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JR,
And now for a multiple guess quiz; are they:
A) 18-8
B) 316
C) 304
D) None of the above
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: John Wright
Mickey,
As a GMC Vendor, I sell a SS bolt kit for the bumpers. My Kit with 32 bolts, lock washers and nuts sells for $44.00 plus shipping
while my present stock last and I am the lowest cost anywhere in the US. I have been selling this kit at GMCMI and GMCGL rallies
for 10+ years. They are not polished, but mill finish and look great on you coach. Polishing runs another $2 per bolt and add
about a week to delivery, but in my opinion is not needed. Email or call me a 9 eight 9 8 5 nine-zero 7 one 5.
J.R. Wright
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GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Stainless Steel [message #262376 is a reply to message #262364] |
Sat, 20 September 2014 10:03 |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726
Registered: May 2014
Location: Arlington, WA
Karma: -9
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sgltrac wrote on Sat, 20 September 2014 05:40Make sure whatever kind of stainless bolts you select have a different strain of stainless for the nuts. Identical stainless grade between nuts and bolts are more likely to seize.
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
Exactly correct, we run into this problem at work and the simple solution is to use anti seize. Prevents galling which leads to seizure, and makes the hardware easy to remove in the future.
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
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| Re: Stainless Steel [message #262394 is a reply to message #262360] |
Sat, 20 September 2014 13:39 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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mickey szilagyi wrote on Sat, 20 September 2014 07:23...I also noticed in looking for "bumper bolts" some are not completely stainless but are "capped" with stainless steel.
Imo, that would be the best choice. Stainless is not as strong as 1018 steel anyway. The 'cap' is the pretty part that you will see and the steel nut against the steel washer against the steel bumper and tightening on a steel bolt will not have any galvanic corrosion (except under the cap but that won't effect your ability to remove it down the road.
J.R., are you and your bolt kits coming to Wisconsin?
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
[Updated on: Sat, 20 September 2014 13:39] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Stainless Steel [message #262405 is a reply to message #262369] |
Sat, 20 September 2014 16:53 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
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Sounds like the end of a treasure hunt.
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
> On Sep 20, 2014, at 6:43 AM, John Wright wrote:
>
> Mickey,
> As a GMC Vendor, I sell a SS bolt kit for the bumpers. My Kit with 32 bolts, lock washers and nuts sells for $44.00 plus shipping while my present stock last and I am the lowest cost anywhere in the US. I have been selling this kit at GMCMI and GMCGL rallies for 10+ years. They are not polished, but mill finish and look great on you coach. Polishing runs another $2 per bolt and add about a week to delivery, but in my opinion is not needed. Email or call me a 9 eight 9 8 5 nine-zero 7 one 5.
>
> J.R. Wright
> The Bumper Bolt Guy
> powerjon1945@hotmail.com
> Michigan
>
>
>> On Sep 20, 2014, at 9:29 AM, Mickey Szilagyi wrote:
>>
>> Thanks everyone! Lots of info, interesting. Sounds like it's a matter of corrosion resistance rather than strength. We do use Tef-Gel anti-seize on
>> all our stainless applications especially when we use stainless on regular steel.
>> --
>> Mickey
>> 1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Stainless Steel [message #262432 is a reply to message #262413] |
Sat, 20 September 2014 21:50 |
powwerjon
Messages: 849
Registered: March 2013
Karma: -2
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I am at the GMCGL rally in South Haven MI. I will answer all you questions in order of them being asked.
Billy: I have not forgot about you and the website update. We have had some medical issues this summer and my time has been limited for getting pictures and info together, but I will shortly as soon as the wife get into physical therapy this coming week. She had shoulder surgery to repair her should that several things wrong with it.
Rob: C
Jared: Anti-seize is good!
Kerry: You don’t need to torque these bolts too tight, they are just bumper bolts, I have sold about 40 sets and never have had any problems other than one person over tightening them too much and breaking a few. 45/50 ft/lbs is all you need to set the lock washers. I will not be at the convention, my 50th class reunion in next weekend and it conflicted with the convention.
Todd: Its the pot of gold.
David: You paid too much! My Kit includes the bolts, lock washers and nuts all in stainless steel for $44 + shipping.
J.R. Wright
30' Buskirk Stretch
Michigan
On Location in Tucson
On Sep 20, 2014, at 7:06 PM, David H. Jarvis wrote:
> I bought capped bumper bolts locally for $1.40 each.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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