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Running light circuit blows fuse [message #259901] Sun, 24 August 2014 10:40 Go to next message
The Dr is currently offline  The Dr   United States
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I recently got all my clearance lights working. I then took the coach in to get the exhaust system fixed. They replaced the pipe from the twin mufflers to the back with a 3 inch pipe and fixed some faulty welds at the mufflers. It looks great now. Now when the running lights are turned on it blows the 20 amp fuse immediately. It may be coincidence. I can't think of how the two could be related unless there is a wire run down the passenger side underneath that might have gotten melted. I couldn't see anything with a quick look.

Any ideas before I try tracing the wiring?

Thanks,
Mike


Mike Sauer Toledo, OR 1975 26' Avion 1-ton front end, SullyBilt AirBag System, 3.21 tranny
Re: [GMCnet] Running light circuit blows fuse [message #259907 is a reply to message #259901] Sun, 24 August 2014 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
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Start tracing. :-(

But start at the trailer hitch wiring just in case a PO tied into the
tail light circuit & the muffler folks somehow shorted that.

JWID,

Ken H.

On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Mike Sauer wrote:
> I recently got all my clearance lights working. I then took the coach in to get the exhaust system fixed. They replaced the pipe from the twin
> mufflers to the back with a 3 inch pipe and fixed some faulty welds at the mufflers. It looks great now. Now when the running lights are turned on
> it blows the 20 amp fuse immediately. It may be coincidence. I can't think of how the two could be related unless there is a wire run down the
> passenger side underneath that might have gotten melted. I couldn't see anything with a quick look.
>
> Any ideas before I try tracing the wiring?
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: Running light circuit blows fuse [message #259908 is a reply to message #259901] Sun, 24 August 2014 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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The Dr wrote on Sun, 24 August 2014 11:40
I recently got all my clearance lights working. I then took the coach in to get the exhaust system fixed. They replaced the pipe from the twin mufflers to the back with a 3 inch pipe and fixed some faulty welds at the mufflers. It looks great now. Now when the running lights are turned on it blows the 20 amp fuse immediately. It may be coincidence. I can't think of how the two could be related unless there is a wire run down the passenger side underneath that might have gotten melted. I couldn't see anything with a quick look.

Any ideas before I try tracing the wiring?

Thanks,
Mike

Mike,

X2 Start Tracing.....
In a stock GMC the rear light harness can be separated at a connector that is behind the panel at the driver's left knee.
If you can find that connector (sometimes accessible under the IP extreme outboard), you can at least isolate that. That harness runs down the left (driver's) side.

If the coach has a factory trailer light harness (I know nothing about Avions) it is all on the Left (port-driver) side, but a lot is exposed underneath.

If you don't find anything, you might invest in a circuit tracer Hazard Fright has a 25$ version (dubious value) that works as well as any but the really expensive ones. If you save all the packaging and it doesn't do anything, take it back.

Good Luck

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
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Re: [GMCnet] Running light circuit blows fuse [message #259931 is a reply to message #259901] Sun, 24 August 2014 15:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sgltrac is currently offline  sgltrac   United States
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What did u do to get the clearance lights working? Usually if I have an electrical problem after doing wiring I re trace my steps. There are coincidences but commonly a new problem which arises immediately after work done can be traced back to an oops during the " repair"

Todd Sullivan

Sully
77 royale
Seattle

> On Aug 24, 2014, at 8:41 AM, Mike Sauer wrote:
>
> I recently got all my clearance lights working. I then took the coach in to get the exhaust system fixed. They replaced the pipe from the twin
> mufflers to the back with a 3 inch pipe and fixed some faulty welds at the mufflers. It looks great now. Now when the running lights are turned on
> it blows the 20 amp fuse immediately. It may be coincidence. I can't think of how the two could be related unless there is a wire run down the
> passenger side underneath that might have gotten melted. I couldn't see anything with a quick look.
>
> Any ideas before I try tracing the wiring?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
> --
> Mike Sauer
> Toledo, OR
> 1975 26' Avion
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Sully 77 Royale basket case. Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list) Seattle, Wa.
Re: [GMCnet] Running light circuit blows fuse [message #259995 is a reply to message #259931] Mon, 25 August 2014 07:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Dr is currently offline  The Dr   United States
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Todd,

I replaced burnt out lights and cleaned contacts. A couple of grounds needed cleaning. I am going to open all of them up since I need to seal them also. That will give me a chance to see if anything shorted in each light.

The last thing done since they worked was the exhaust. That was why I wondered. Sounds like my best shot before tracing is the trailer hitch wiring.

Thanks to everyone for the thoughts. I hope I can get back there soon to check things out.


sgltrac wrote on Sun, 24 August 2014 13:03
What did u do to get the clearance lights working? Usually if I have an electrical problem after doing wiring I re trace my steps. There are coincidences but commonly a new problem which arises immediately after work done can be traced back to an oops during the " repair"

Todd Sullivan

Sully
77 royale
Seattle





Mike Sauer Toledo, OR 1975 26' Avion 1-ton front end, SullyBilt AirBag System, 3.21 tranny
Re: Running light circuit blows fuse [message #260001 is a reply to message #259901] Mon, 25 August 2014 09:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rick Williams is currently offline  Rick Williams   United States
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Mike

Because you indicate that the fuse blows immediately, I do not think the following is your problem but it is worth checking. My coach would periodically "blow" the running lights fuse. It turned out that the fuse holder was corroded and developed excess heat. That in turn melted the internal connection of the fuse creating an open circuit. I kept thinking it was a blown fuse until I looked closely at the fuse. Since I cleaned the fuse holder several years ago, there has not been a problem.
Rick


Rick Williams
Bliss, Michigan
1978 Eleganza II
Re: [GMCnet] Running light circuit blows fuse [message #260003 is a reply to message #259995] Mon, 25 August 2014 09:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
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Mike,

If you're going to break all the clearance light connections anyway, this
would be a good time to correct the wiring. 8 of the 9 clearance lights
I've converted to LED were wired with the wrong polarity -- the bases were
(+) and the center contacts (-). This is a very common discrepancy which
doesn't much matter as long as the lights are mounted on the SMC body and
use non-polarized incandescent bulbs. If you install LED's, they won't
work with reversed polarity.

Fix 'em now to eliminate frustrations later.

Ken H.

On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 8:57 AM, Mike Sauer wrote:

> Todd,
>
> I replaced burnt out lights and cleaned contacts. A couple of grounds
> needed cleaning. I am going to open all of them up since I need to seal them
> also. That will give me a chance to see if anything shorted in each light.
>
> The last thing done since they worked was the exhaust. That was why I
> wondered. Sounds like my best shot before tracing is the trailer hitch
> wiring.
>
> Thanks to everyone for the thoughts. I hope I can get back there soon to
> check things out.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] Running light circuit blows fuse [message #260006 is a reply to message #260003] Mon, 25 August 2014 09:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Dr is currently offline  The Dr   United States
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Registered: July 2014
Location: Toledo, OR
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Thanks, Ken.

Makes sense. I'll have to be careful because, as others have expressed, I get confused with black being hot in a DC system. My multimeter will be getting a lot of use.

Mike

Ken Henderson wrote on Mon, 25 August 2014 07:24
Mike,

If you're going to break all the clearance light connections anyway, this
would be a good time to correct the wiring. 8 of the 9 clearance lights
I've converted to LED were wired with the wrong polarity -- the bases were
(+) and the center contacts (-). This is a very common discrepancy which
doesn't much matter as long as the lights are mounted on the SMC body and
use non-polarized incandescent bulbs. If you install LED's, they won't
work with reversed polarity.

Fix 'em now to eliminate frustrations later.

Ken H.




Mike Sauer Toledo, OR 1975 26' Avion 1-ton front end, SullyBilt AirBag System, 3.21 tranny
Re: [GMCnet] Running light circuit blows fuse [message #260734 is a reply to message #259907] Tue, 02 September 2014 17:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Dr is currently offline  The Dr   United States
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Registered: July 2014
Location: Toledo, OR
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Ken,

Thanks for the idea of checking the hitch wiring. It was not the problem, but was a problem anyway. Another item for the list. Smile

It's going to take quite a while to get this done. I only have a few hours on weekends it lucky. I think I found out yesterday what it looks like after someone spills soda on the steering wheel. Corrosion is pretty bad in the top of the column. Cleaned it up some so the horn worked again. Will need more work in the future. Low priority, but it was more discovery.

Mike
Still on the steep upward curve.

Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 24 August 2014 09:08
Start tracing. Sad

But start at the trailer hitch wiring just in case a PO tied into the
tail light circuit & the muffler folks somehow shorted that.

JWID,

Ken H.




Mike Sauer Toledo, OR 1975 26' Avion 1-ton front end, SullyBilt AirBag System, 3.21 tranny
Re: [GMCnet] Running light circuit blows fuse [message #260739 is a reply to message #260734] Tue, 02 September 2014 17:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
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Mike,

Your steering column corrosion may or may not have been from spilled soda.
The windshield gaskets frequently leak at the top, letting water drip
right on the horn button.

Ken H.

On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 6:14 PM, Mike Sauer wrote:

> ​...​
>
>
I think I found out yesterday what it looks like
> ​ ​
> after someone spills soda on the steering wheel. Corrosion is pretty bad
> in the top of the column. Cleaned it up some so the horn worked again.
> Will
> need more work in the future. Low priority, but it was more discovery.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] Running light circuit blows fuse [message #260823 is a reply to message #260739] Wed, 03 September 2014 12:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Dr is currently offline  The Dr   United States
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Location: Toledo, OR
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A leak is a definite possibility. I am finding them everywhere. What I found was a sticky mess on top of the corrosion and assumed it was from some sugar substance. I suppose it doesn't really matter. I still need to clean it up. Smile

Ken Henderson wrote on Tue, 02 September 2014 15:37

Mike,

Your steering column corrosion may or may not have been from spilled soda.
The windshield gaskets frequently leak at the top, letting water drip
right on the horn button.

Ken H.



Mike Sauer Toledo, OR 1975 26' Avion 1-ton front end, SullyBilt AirBag System, 3.21 tranny
Re: Running light circuit blows fuse [message #260826 is a reply to message #259901] Wed, 03 September 2014 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
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The Dr wrote on Sun, 24 August 2014 10:40
I recently got all my clearance lights working. I then took the coach in to get the exhaust system fixed. They replaced the pipe from the twin mufflers to the back with a 3 inch pipe and fixed some faulty welds at the mufflers. It looks great now. Now when the running lights are turned on it blows the 20 amp fuse immediately. It may be coincidence. I can't think of how the two could be related unless there is a wire run down the passenger side underneath that might have gotten melted. I couldn't see anything with a quick look.

Any ideas before I try tracing the wiring?

Thanks,
Mike
Transmode Chassis Wring Diagram

From the light switch pin 3 there is a no 18 red dbl wht striped wire that goes through the 8-way connector that the wiring diagram says is under the instrument panel upper l.h. side. It powers the amber clearance lights on the roof. Each of them has a no 18 red dbl wht stripe wire feeding it.

From the light switch pin 4 there is a no 16 purple wire that goes through the 28 way connector (labeled OU on the diagram) located at the engine compartment dash panel upper r.h. side. It powers the front park lights and the front side marker lights.

Also from the light switch pin 4 there is a no 16 brown wire that goes to a 10 point connector located under the instrument panel upper l.h side of the dash panel. It feeds the rear clearance, marker, license plate and park lights.

At the rear located at the left rear "carling" (?) the side body harness to rear body harness is a 6 way connector where the brown wire comes from the front to connect to a no 16 brown wire that ultimately splits to all the running lights in the rear.

Maybe you can use some of these multi-way connectors to disconnect and isolate which area the short circuit is hiding.

I would disconnect each of those three wires from the light switch and measure the resistance to ground of each. The one that is lowest is probably the one you want to start tracing.
Re: Running light circuit blows fuse [message #260847 is a reply to message #260826] Wed, 03 September 2014 21:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Dr is currently offline  The Dr   United States
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Registered: July 2014
Location: Toledo, OR
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Thanks for the great summary. I haven't had the time to go through the wiring diagrams. I didn't even know there were special transmode wiring diagrams. I was wondering how to break it into smaller sections. Thanks again for the help.

Mike
1975 26' Avion
Toledo, OR

A Hamilto wrote on Wed, 03 September 2014 11:39
Transmode Chassis Wring Diagram

From the light switch pin 3 there is a no 18 red dbl wht striped wire that goes through the 8-way connector that the wiring diagram says is under the instrument panel upper l.h. side. It powers the amber clearance lights on the roof. Each of them has a no 18 red dbl wht stripe wire feeding it.

From the light switch pin 4 there is a no 16 purple wire that goes through the 28 way connector (labeled OU on the diagram) located at the engine compartment dash panel upper r.h. side. It powers the front park lights and the front side marker lights.

Also from the light switch pin 4 there is a no 16 brown wire that goes to a 10 point connector located under the instrument panel upper l.h side of the dash panel. It feeds the rear clearance, marker, license plate and park lights.

At the rear located at the left rear "carling" (?) the side body harness to rear body harness is a 6 way connector where the brown wire comes from the front to connect to a no 16 brown wire that ultimately splits to all the running lights in the rear.

Maybe you can use some of these multi-way connectors to disconnect and isolate which area the short circuit is hiding.

I would disconnect each of those three wires from the light switch and measure the resistance to ground of each. The one that is lowest is probably the one you want to start tracing.



Mike Sauer Toledo, OR 1975 26' Avion 1-ton front end, SullyBilt AirBag System, 3.21 tranny
Re: [GMCnet] Running light circuit blows fuse [message #261927 is a reply to message #259931] Sun, 14 September 2014 23:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Dr is currently offline  The Dr   United States
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Todd,

I really hate it when I'm wrong. When I fixed up the clearance lights I cleaned up the ground to get one of them working. That wire was a brown wire, the hot. So as has been noted here, it was wired backwards. It looks like it may have taken a bit of moving around to get a good ground and blow the fuse. I rewired the light correctly and now two lights don't work. Need to get up there with the meter on those two lights and figure out how they are both wired. Thanks for your good advice and sorry I didn't take it sooner.

Mike
Toledo, Oregon
1975 26' Avion


sgltrac wrote on Sun, 24 August 2014 13:03
What did u do to get the clearance lights working? Usually if I have an electrical problem after doing wiring I re trace my steps. There are coincidences but commonly a new problem which arises immediately after work done can be traced back to an oops during the " repair"

Todd Sullivan

Sully
77 royale
Seattle




Mike Sauer Toledo, OR 1975 26' Avion 1-ton front end, SullyBilt AirBag System, 3.21 tranny
Re: [GMCnet] Running light circuit blows fuse [message #261928 is a reply to message #261927] Sun, 14 September 2014 23:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sgltrac is currently offline  sgltrac   United States
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Glad you found it!

Todd Sullivan

Sully
77 royale
Seattle

> On Sep 14, 2014, at 9:41 PM, Mike Sauer wrote:
>
> Todd,
>
> I really hate it when I'm wrong. When I fixed up the clearance lights I cleaned up the ground to get one of them working. That wire was a brown
> wire, the hot. So as has been noted here, it was wired backwards. It looks like it may have taken a bit of moving around to get a good ground and
> blow the fuse. I rewired the light correctly and now two lights don't work. Need to get up there with the meter on those two lights and figure out
> how they are both wired. Thanks for your good advice and sorry I didn't take it sooner.
>
> Mike
> Toledo, Oregon
> 1975 26' Avion
>
>
> sgltrac wrote on Sun, 24 August 2014 13:03
>> What did u do to get the clearance lights working? Usually if I have an electrical problem after doing wiring I re trace my steps. There are
>> coincidences but commonly a new problem which arises immediately after work done can be traced back to an oops during the " repair"
>>
>> Todd Sullivan
>>
>> Sully
>> 77 royale
>> Seattle
>
>
> --
> Mike Sauer
> Toledo, OR
> 1975 26' Avion
> _______________________________________________
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Sully 77 Royale basket case. Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list) Seattle, Wa.
Re: [GMCnet] Running light circuit blows fuse [message #261939 is a reply to message #261927] Mon, 15 September 2014 08:27 Go to previous message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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The Dr wrote on Mon, 15 September 2014 00:41
Todd,

I really hate it when I'm wrong. When I fixed up the clearance lights I cleaned up the ground to get one of them working. That wire was a brown wire, the hot. So as has been noted here, it was wired backwards. It looks like it may have taken a bit of moving around to get a good ground and blow the fuse. I rewired the light correctly and now two lights don't work. Need to get up there with the meter on those two lights and figure out how they are both wired. Thanks for your good advice and sorry I didn't take it sooner.

Mike
Toledo, Oregon
1975 26' Avion

Mike,

Thanks for the update.

If you still have OE clearance lights, you may want to adjust (bend) the sockets to hold the bulbs tighter. Don't forget to put them down on silicon (aka di-electric) grease. Put in the budget the ~100+$ for the LED replacements.

Matt - in Mitchell SD


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
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