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who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #258994] Sat, 16 August 2014 00:27 Go to next message
Bob de Kruyff   United States
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
Senior Member
The word "engineer" is professed a lot around here but frankly most have assumed that title by themselves with no credentials at all. I'm not saying that engineers are better than any one else, but let's do a sense check around those who like to banty their credentials with only scam titles. Many people who need to reinforce that title never made it. Most folks on the net don't care but whenever I see people taunting their expertise makes me think they realy have no credentials at all.

Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
Re: who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #258998 is a reply to message #258994] Sat, 16 August 2014 01:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
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Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
Senior Member
I thought to be a real "engineer" that you had to work your way up to the job by shoveling coal as a fireman first. TOOT .... TOOT


I never figured out if a flight engineer was a co-pilot trainee or not.



Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

[Updated on: Sat, 16 August 2014 10:54]

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Re: [GMCnet] who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #258999 is a reply to message #258994] Sat, 16 August 2014 01:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
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Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
As an degrees Aeronautical Engineer, I have made some blunt assumptions
contrary to what was taught.
Chuck Auger, who is a degreeed mechanical engineer wet balistic at one guy
on the net as he mis understood the Reaction Arm System.
Chuck eventually got over that , but a degree does not always mean you
fully understand all the courses one had to take.
I know that I struggled through most of my courses as my advanced math was
so poor.
In our Air Filter side of or business, I have many that pretend to know a
lot more, but some wihout a degree seem to do better at design and other
skills.
If it was not for the lab courses, I wold never been able to graduate.


On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:

> The word "engineer" is professed a lot around here but frankly most have
> assumed that title by themselves with no credentials at all. I'm not saying
> that engineers are better than any one else, but let's do a sense check
> around those who like to banty their credentials with only scam titles. Many
> people who need to reinforce that title never made it. Most folks on the
> net don't care but whenever I see people taunting their expertise makes me
> think they realy have no credentials at all.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>



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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #259002 is a reply to message #258998] Sat, 16 August 2014 01:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
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Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
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Senior Member
Ken,
We us to say in college, "I art an engineer, TOOT! TOOT!


On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 11:04 PM, Ken Burton wrote:

> I thought to be a real "engineer" that you that to work your way up to the
> job by shoveling coal as a fireman first.
>
>
> I never figured out if a flight engineer was a pilot trainee or not.
>
>
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #259012 is a reply to message #258994] Sat, 16 August 2014 05:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
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Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Bob de Kruyff wrote on Sat, 16 August 2014 00:27
The word "engineer" is professed a lot around here but frankly most have assumed that title by themselves with no credentials at all. I'm not saying that engineers are better than any one else, but let's do a sense check around those who like to banty their credentials with only scam titles. Many people who need to reinforce that title never made it. Most folks on the net don't care but whenever I see people taunting their expertise makes me think they realy have no credentials at all.


What bee got under your bonnet?
I haven't seen a lot of, or any of, people claiming to be engineers on the forum. And while a degree is an indicator of aptitude it is not the cause of it.

If you only want to talk to Real engineers, don't be talking to me.
Besides, I write software for a living which automatically makes me suspect in many areas.

Keith, Not an engineer.


Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
Re: who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #259014 is a reply to message #258994] Sat, 16 August 2014 06:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SeanKidd is currently offline  SeanKidd   United States
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Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Karma: 4
Senior Member
I am a self proclaimed Re-Engineer...I let the really smart guys figure out how to do it. I then take it all apart and re-do it the way it should have been.

Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.
Colonial Travelers
Re: who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #259015 is a reply to message #258994] Sat, 16 August 2014 07:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim Galbavy is currently offline  Jim Galbavy   United States
Messages: 1443
Registered: August 2007
Karma: 7
Senior Member
Bob,

As Ken and JimK have pointed out, there are all types of "Engineer" titles.

Me? I'm a degreed construction engineer. ..... dirt pusher of sorts.
21 years as a commisioned Army Engineer building stuff and sometimes blowing them up.
I'm not a registered professional engineer (my brother is), but I have been
know to stay overnight at a Holiday Inn Express. Rolling Eyes

jim galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, FL
Re: [GMCnet] who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #259016 is a reply to message #259014] Sat, 16 August 2014 07:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kingsley Coach is currently offline  Kingsley Coach   United States
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
Senior Member
To be an Engineer in Canada, you must have a University Degree and follow
that up by attending a 3 year program of EIT (Engineer in Training) .
At the end of the 3 years of EIT a Nation Exam must be passed.

My daughter passed, my son dropped out and my son in law didn't pass...it
ain't easy.
They are a self regulating body.


An Engineer is one who when they hear the debate over whether the glass is
half full or half empty, responds by saying the glass is 2 times bigger
than it needs to be.

Mike in NS...not even close to being an Engineer


On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 8:20 AM, Sean Kidd wrote:

> I am a self proclaimed Re-Engineer...I let the really smart guys figure
> out how to do it. I then take it all apart and re-do it the way it should
> have
> been.
> --
> Sean and Stephanie
> 73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
> Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, PHuber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD
>
> Colonial Travelers
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>



--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS

I am not an alcoholic; alcoholics go to meetings.
I am a drunk; I go to parties !
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Re: who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #259023 is a reply to message #258994] Sat, 16 August 2014 08:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrgmc3 is currently offline  mrgmc3   United States
Messages: 210
Registered: September 2013
Location: W Washington
Karma: 2
Senior Member
Bob, I have a BSME, and as you know, 30 years ago GM required an engineering degree from a good school and a good grade point average. Not sure they can afford to be quite as choosy today - Detroit is not the destination it used to be.
I try to remain a pretty low key guy so I make no claims, just try to be helpful.
I did work at an Oldsmobile dealer in college, but I did not stay at a holiday inn express last night!


Chris Geils - Twin Cities / W Wa 1978 26' Kingsley w/ very few mods; PD9040, aux trans cooler, one repaint in stock colors, R134a, Al rad, Alcoas, 54k mi
Re: who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #259025 is a reply to message #258994] Sat, 16 August 2014 08:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerry pinkerton is currently offline  kerry pinkerton   United States
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
Senior Member
Bob de Kruyff wrote on Sat, 16 August 2014 00:27
...I'm not saying that engineers are better than any one else...


Really Bob? Really? Sure sounds like that to me. I don't know who licked the red off your lollypop.

Bob de Kruyff wrote on Sat, 16 August 2014 00:27
...realy ...
Really? Oh, I guess spell checkers came along after you got your engineering degree... Laughing Twisted Evil

Sorry Bob, you made it so easy I couldn't resist.

In any group of people you are going to find people who don't know as much as they profess and some who profess to know more than they do. By the time most humans reach the age of 10, their BS detectors are well developed. By the time most of us reach middle age, it's finely honed and we can easily tell who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't. There are some folks in this community that have been there, done that, for decades and decades with little or no formal education or perhaps a degree in a non-engineering field. I'll take that over someone flaunting their diploma any day.

At my age, some things are not what they used to be but my BS detector is still working just fine.

Kerry....not an engineer
Re: who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #259030 is a reply to message #258994] Sat, 16 August 2014 09:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Larry is currently offline  Larry   United States
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Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
Senior Member
And then there is the late Bob Drews. In addition to being a wonderful human being with a great sense of humor, he was one of the smartest people I've ever met. Bob's degree came from the school of hard knocks and life time experience. Bob was a South Dakota farmer with a degree in John Deer engineering. He would buy a new piece of JD equipment, use it in the fields for a while, then pull it into his machine shed and re-engineer it to do what it was touted to do. He had regular visits from the JD "engineers". They came from the plant to see what changes he had made to their equipment. Interestingly enough, those upgrades would appear on next years model. After he retired from farming I don't know who they got to take his place, but I'm guessing it must have been tough finding Bob's equal.

Then Bob started re-engineering the GMC. Everything from simple stuff inside relative to storage, on to engineering a one ton where there was no change in camber as the coach bounced up and down going down the highway.

He's been gone for several months now, and I can't think of anyone that...at this point in time I miss more. Loved that man.

Raise your glasses to the best we could have had.


Larry Smile
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Re: who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #259033 is a reply to message #259030] Sat, 16 August 2014 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
George Beckman is currently offline  George Beckman   United States
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Location: Colfax, CA
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Larry wrote on Sat, 16 August 2014 07:05
And then there is the late Bob Drews. In addition to being a wonderful human being with a great sense of humor, he was one of the smartest people I've ever met. Bob's degree came from the school of hard knocks and life time experience. Bob was a South Dakota farmer with a degree in John Deer engineering. He would buy a new piece of JD equipment, use it in the fields for a while, then pull it into his machine shed and re-engineer it to do what it was touted to do. He had regular visits from the JD "engineers". They came from the plant to see what changes he had made to their equipment. Interestingly enough, those upgrades would appear on next years model. After he retired from farming I don't know who they got to take his place, but I'm guessing it must have been tough finding Bob's equal.

Then Bob started re-engineering the GMC. Everything from simple stuff inside relative to storage, on to engineering a one ton where there was no change in camber as the coach bounced up and down going down the highway.

He's been gone for several months now, and I can't think of anyone that...at this point in time I miss more. Loved that man.

Raise your glasses to the best we could have had.


Well said, Larry, well said. Bob was a prince among men. Not only did he have tremendous knowledge, humor, faith and kindness; he was a craftsman when he put an idea to work. I think of how I cobble things together, in comparison, and realize that Bob never made me feel anything but worthy.


'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
Re: who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #259034 is a reply to message #258994] Sat, 16 August 2014 10:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carl S. is currently offline  Carl S.   United States
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Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
Senior Member

Not me, never claimed to be. I'm just an AME dropout, from the University of Arizona, with a couple of contractors licenses.

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
Re: [GMCnet] who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #259035 is a reply to message #259033] Sat, 16 August 2014 10:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kimberlea Weeks is currently offline  Kimberlea Weeks   United States
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Registered: July 2010
Karma: 6
Senior Member
I'm sitting here feeling very honored in the "Drewes" coach confirming the
technical line up for the Fall GMCMI Convention and read this with and a
tear in my eye. He will definitely be missed, whether telling a joke,
pulling your leg, ushering you to your seat for church, presenting a tech
session or just there to help you! My glass is raised! kim


On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 10:24 AM, George Beckman wrote:

> Larry wrote on Sat, 16 August 2014 07:05
>> And then there is the late Bob Drews. In addition to being a wonderful
> human being with a great sense of humor, he was one of the smartest people
>> I've ever met. Bob's degree came from the school of hard knocks and
> life time experience. Bob was a South Dakota farmer with a degree in John
> Deer
>> engineering. He would buy a new piece of JD equipment, use it in the
> fields for a while, then pull it into his machine shed and re-engineer it to
>> do what it was touted to do. He had regular visits from the JD
> "engineers". They came from the plant to see what changes he had made to
> their
>> equipment. Interestingly enough, those upgrades would appear on next
> years model. After he retired from farming I don't know who they got to take
>> his place, but I'm guessing it must have been tough finding Bob's equal.
>>
>> Then Bob started re-engineering the GMC. Everything from simple stuff
> inside relative to storage, on to engineering a one ton where there was no
>> change in camber as the coach bounced up and down going down the highway.
>>
>> He's been gone for several months now, and I can't think of anyone
> that...at this point in time I miss more. Loved that man.
>>
>> Raise your glasses to the best we could have had.
>
>
> Well said, Larry, well said. Bob was a prince among men. Not only did he
> have tremendous knowledge, humor, faith and kindness; he was a craftsman
> when
> he put an idea to work. I think of how I cobble things together, in
> comparison, and realize that Bob never made me feel anything but worthy.
>
> --
> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
> Best Wishes,
> George
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>



--
*Kimberlea Weeks*
VP Administration and Convention Manager
612.501.4600 | f.866.519.0047 | www.gmcmi.com

*GMC Motorhomes International*
1402 So. Cage Blvd | Unit 273 | Pharr | TX 78577

*Mark this on your calendar today!*

*GMCMI 2014 Fall Convention* | Friday, September 26 to Thursday, October 2
Northern Wisconsin State Fairgrounds | Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin

*GMCMI 2015 Spring Convention* | Friday, March 27 to Thursday, April 2
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Re: [GMCnet] who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #259037 is a reply to message #259030] Sat, 16 August 2014 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sandra Price is currently offline  Sandra Price   United States
Messages: 709
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 1
Senior Member
What a profound statement, George...Bob Drewes ..."made me feel worthy".
Oh, for every one of us to do that for our fellow men.

Sandra Price
On Aug 16, 2014 9:06 AM, "Larry" wrote:

> And then there is the late Bob Drews. In addition to being a wonderful
> human being with a great sense of humor, he was one of the smartest people
> I've ever met. Bob's degree came from the school of hard knocks and life
> time experience. Bob was a South Dakota farmer with a degree in John Deer
> engineering. He would buy a new piece of JD equipment, use it in the
> fields for a while, then pull it into his machine shed and re-engineer it
> to do
> what it was touted to do. He had regular visits from the JD "engineers".
> They came from the plant to see what changes he had made to their equipment.
> Interestingly enough, those upgrades would appear on next years model.
> After he retired from farming I don't know who they got to take his place,
> but
> I'm guessing it must have been tough finding Bob's equal.
>
> Then Bob started re-engineering the GMC. Everything from simple stuff
> inside relative to storage, on to engineering a one ton where there was no
> change in camber as the coach bounced up and down going down the highway.
>
> He's been gone for several months now, and I can't think of anyone
> that...at this point in time I miss more. Loved that man.
>
> Raise your glasses to the best we could have had.
>
> --
> Larry
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
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Re: [GMCnet] who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #259038 is a reply to message #259035] Sat, 16 August 2014 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
Senior Member
First of all, I do not have an Engineering Degree. But, I do have a
Journeyman Card and Documents to validate it. It took 4+ years to obtain
it. I know that 8 hours on the job daily, plus evening and week end
related training courses count for a good deal. After that, there were
college courses in things like "Cultural Sensitivity", Audio Visual
Presentations, Student Psychology, and many others required by the Teacher
Standards and Practices Commission to get my teaching certification. Oh
yes, there were annual summer update workshops, lasting from 1 to 2 weeks.
New model updates, new things like fuel injection and emissions. That
lasted throughout my teaching career. No, I am not an Engineer, not me.
But, I love these old GMC mororhomes, and the people that drive them also.
Met a great young couple the other day who just dropped by so I could look
over their new(to them) coach. Still had 16.5" wheels and Michelin tires
that were made in France. Have no idea how old those things are. They were
independent film makers and musicians. Just traveling around making indie
movies and tryin' to get by. Good kids. Pilots, cranberry farmers, high
tech folks, Real Rocket Scientists, Nuclear Physicists, blue collar guys
and their great wives, Architects, yes. The mix of people in this group
makes it great. Keep it up guys, and never look back."Something Bad might
be gaining ground on ya "
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Aug 16, 2014 8:34 AM, "Kimberlea Weeks" wrote:

> I'm sitting here feeling very honored in the "Drewes" coach confirming the
> technical line up for the Fall GMCMI Convention and read this with and a
> tear in my eye. He will definitely be missed, whether telling a joke,
> pulling your leg, ushering you to your seat for church, presenting a tech
> session or just there to help you! My glass is raised! kim
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 10:24 AM, George Beckman
> wrote:
>
>> Larry wrote on Sat, 16 August 2014 07:05
>>> And then there is the late Bob Drews. In addition to being a wonderful
>> human being with a great sense of humor, he was one of the smartest
> people
>>> I've ever met. Bob's degree came from the school of hard knocks and
>> life time experience. Bob was a South Dakota farmer with a degree in
> John
>> Deer
>>> engineering. He would buy a new piece of JD equipment, use it in the
>> fields for a while, then pull it into his machine shed and re-engineer
> it to
>>> do what it was touted to do. He had regular visits from the JD
>> "engineers". They came from the plant to see what changes he had made to
>> their
>>> equipment. Interestingly enough, those upgrades would appear on next
>> years model. After he retired from farming I don't know who they got to
> take
>>> his place, but I'm guessing it must have been tough finding Bob's
> equal.
>>>
>>> Then Bob started re-engineering the GMC. Everything from simple stuff
>> inside relative to storage, on to engineering a one ton where there was
> no
>>> change in camber as the coach bounced up and down going down the
> highway.
>>>
>>> He's been gone for several months now, and I can't think of anyone
>> that...at this point in time I miss more. Loved that man.
>>>
>>> Raise your glasses to the best we could have had.
>>
>>
>> Well said, Larry, well said. Bob was a prince among men. Not only did he
>> have tremendous knowledge, humor, faith and kindness; he was a craftsman
>> when
>> he put an idea to work. I think of how I cobble things together, in
>> comparison, and realize that Bob never made me feel anything but worthy.
>>
>> --
>> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
>> Best Wishes,
>> George
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Kimberlea Weeks*
> VP Administration and Convention Manager
> 612.501.4600 | f.866.519.0047 | www.gmcmi.com
>
> *GMC Motorhomes International*
> 1402 So. Cage Blvd | Unit 273 | Pharr | TX 78577
>
> *Mark this on your calendar today!*
>
> *GMCMI 2014 Fall Convention* | Friday, September 26 to Thursday, October 2
> Northern Wisconsin State Fairgrounds | Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin
>
> *GMCMI 2015 Spring Convention* | Friday, March 27 to Thursday, April 2
> Kemper Williams Park & Patterson Area Civic Center | Patterson, Louisiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Re: [GMCnet] who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #259043 is a reply to message #259035] Sat, 16 August 2014 12:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
A degree engineer is not a technician, however lot of them are also very
good at that.
If nothing else when an mechanical engineer asks me a technician type
question, I know where he came from and can better sight examples of the
math problems we use to grind out in college.
Wes Cauglin gaind my respect shortly after I met him in1980 and had
discussions about the GMC as he could crank out the math and also answer
technical type questions.
He went to Timkin and using his Professional credentials got them to listen
to his suggestion to create a more presise call out on the bearing set for
the front bearing set. Until that time we were having problems more than we
wanted.
Being that he had both a degree from Stanford and a good technical
understanding, other engineers would listen to him.
He called me down on few things, when I bought into some theory that was
contrary to the engineering principles.
I have had other engineers confess to me that they bought in to some theory
that was contrary to what we learned, or to have learned.



On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Kimberlea Weeks
wrote:

> I'm sitting here feeling very honored in the "Drewes" coach confirming the
> technical line up for the Fall GMCMI Convention and read this with and a
> tear in my eye. He will definitely be missed, whether telling a joke,
> pulling your leg, ushering you to your seat for church, presenting a tech
> session or just there to help you! My glass is raised! kim
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 10:24 AM, George Beckman
> wrote:
>
>> Larry wrote on Sat, 16 August 2014 07:05
>>> And then there is the late Bob Drews. In addition to being a wonderful
>> human being with a great sense of humor, he was one of the smartest
> people
>>> I've ever met. Bob's degree came from the school of hard knocks and
>> life time experience. Bob was a South Dakota farmer with a degree in
> John
>> Deer
>>> engineering. He would buy a new piece of JD equipment, use it in the
>> fields for a while, then pull it into his machine shed and re-engineer
> it to
>>> do what it was touted to do. He had regular visits from the JD
>> "engineers". They came from the plant to see what changes he had made to
>> their
>>> equipment. Interestingly enough, those upgrades would appear on next
>> years model. After he retired from farming I don't know who they got to
> take
>>> his place, but I'm guessing it must have been tough finding Bob's
> equal.
>>>
>>> Then Bob started re-engineering the GMC. Everything from simple stuff
>> inside relative to storage, on to engineering a one ton where there was
> no
>>> change in camber as the coach bounced up and down going down the
> highway.
>>>
>>> He's been gone for several months now, and I can't think of anyone
>> that...at this point in time I miss more. Loved that man.
>>>
>>> Raise your glasses to the best we could have had.
>>
>>
>> Well said, Larry, well said. Bob was a prince among men. Not only did he
>> have tremendous knowledge, humor, faith and kindness; he was a craftsman
>> when
>> he put an idea to work. I think of how I cobble things together, in
>> comparison, and realize that Bob never made me feel anything but worthy.
>>
>> --
>> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
>> Best Wishes,
>> George
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Kimberlea Weeks*
> VP Administration and Convention Manager
> 612.501.4600 | f.866.519.0047 | www.gmcmi.com
>
> *GMC Motorhomes International*
> 1402 So. Cage Blvd | Unit 273 | Pharr | TX 78577
>
> *Mark this on your calendar today!*
>
> *GMCMI 2014 Fall Convention* | Friday, September 26 to Thursday, October 2
> Northern Wisconsin State Fairgrounds | Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin
>
> *GMCMI 2015 Spring Convention* | Friday, March 27 to Thursday, April 2
> Kemper Williams Park & Patterson Area Civic Center | Patterson, Louisiana
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #259047 is a reply to message #259043] Sat, 16 August 2014 12:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
I'm not sure why this whole thread got started, but since we're all
confessing, I'll add my 2 cents: I've had an engineering education -- 3
years of ME followed by a diploma mill Batchelor's degee with a "Major in
Math and Engineering" to satisfy USAF's desire for all officers to have a
degree -- even from the University of Omaha. Later, USAF sent me back to
school for BSEE and MSEE. Fact is, I never had a true engineering job
after that, unless you count my ownership of a microcomputer dealership
after my retirement.

Notice I said "...an engineering education" -- NOT that I"m an engineer!
Most of the useful knowledge and skills I've acquired did NOT come out of
the classroom. At 10 years old, I traded a dime for a decrepit old
electric fan, took it home and made it run. That's the sort of useful
education I've had. I respect those who've actually used their engineering
educations and wish I'd had the opportunity. But, as the first college
graduate in a family which has had significant mechanical skills as far
back as anyone knows, I respect those who DO even more. (My
great-grandfather and his sons dammed the Pea River in SE Alabama in the
1920's, using human & mule labor, then built a grist mill run by the
backed-up water. All of his sons became skilled mechanics of one sort or
another.)

So, I'm proud to have endured all those years of math, science, etc., but
what I mostly got out of it was the ability to converse with true engineers
with some degree of understanding. And, fact is, that's all USAF really
wanted out of the investment -- the true engineering was done by the
contractors with whom I had contracts.

Ken H.
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #259048 is a reply to message #259043] Sat, 16 August 2014 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Freeman is currently offline  Bill Freeman   United States
Messages: 122
Registered: March 2004
Location: Colerain, NC
Karma: 1
Senior Member
When I first joined the GMC forum there was a FAQ posted up front here that warned against claiming you were an engineer, with or without a "real" degree. As I recall one reason was that you might find yourself in a liability lawsuit. There may have been additional reasons listed in the FAQ for not saying you are an engineer as validation for any advice you might offer.

Update.. I see the warning is still there in article 5 of the forum guidelines. http://gmcnet.org/gmcnetguidelines.html


Bill Freeman
78 Royale 73 Sequoia
Colerain, North Carolina

[Updated on: Sat, 16 August 2014 17:30]

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Re: who is an engineer with a real degree? [message #259051 is a reply to message #258994] Sat, 16 August 2014 13:59 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
cbryan   United States
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
Senior Member
Bob,

Saying you are a professional engineer has legal ramifications sometimes, as it is required to sign off on structural changes, etc. Don't know about other fields. I'm not one, I mentioned before. Don't play one on community theatre, either.

One of my biggest kicks is trying to think through changes to my GMC. I am working on a personal list of criteria for successful changes.

1. Cause no harm, except to pocketbook.
2. Does it provide a useful function and please me?
3. If my experiment goes bad, will it disable any expected function of the motorhome?
4. If wires, et cetera, are involved, are they segregated from the stock configuration, so that Jim Bounds would find familiar ground? (And can critters munch them?)
5. If electric, does it have its own fuse, rather than piggybacking on something else that might be critical.
6. If it is a hoped-for reliability or safety enhancement, can it be bypassed, or provide for redundancy?
7. Can the changes be documented so that the next owner won't be adrift?
8. Got to remember that the sheer weight of my change might be damaging.

When using those criteria, planning any changes becomes more complex. I have known engineers and through their training and practical experience in design, they know whether a plan is feasible or not in their bones, without having to think much about it. They may or may not be articulate and persuasive in discussion, but I go against their gut feeling only very reluctantly.

We have one benefit that the engineers who created the GMC didn't have. That is time, time giving later innovations, and what comes with experience in maintaining the coaches. We are also free to innovate without jeopardising our job, and the CFO decides whether the job can be funded, in addition to having access to surplus materials that wouldn't be economic for production.

Having written the above, doing something new on my own that truly innovates isn't easy. When I think I have a bright idea, I find that one or another of the people on the forum has already tested it out. I bought a new to me VDO electronic speedometer cheap on that auction site, installed and wired it wrong. I was tired of the OEM setup that never settled down and was off by about 15% anyway (Even when using the high dollar speedometer corrector gear drive). I then wired it right. Then looking through KenH's site on his dash rebuild, lo and behold he had been using one since about 2007. So much for that innovation.

Now, working with an engineer on a design-build structure at $2.2 million, I found that like some contractors, "They are used to doing what they are used to doing." For an example, I wanted glazed block on the exterior. He wanted graffiti resistant paint on cinder block. He said that cinder block was good to 1000 psi, glazed to only 400. I talked to an architect who told me that the entire building needed recoating every year or two for the graffiti resistant paint to work. Secondly, I contacted a manufacturer who told me that their block had a surface hardness of 3400 psi. I got my glazed block. I think the 400 psi was for glass brick. This is an oven baked product. Initially more expensive but given labor costs going forward, I think economical in the long run. An admittedly small number of disagreements of this nature. For the most part, he was right and I wrong and we are far better off because of his work. Like about a million percent.

So, in some cases, engineers earn their second guessing, though it must be uncomfortable for them. They brought us the Tacoma Narrows Bridge. And about a million other safe bridges, too.

Your enormous value, Bob, is in your professional training and continuing experience in the field you share with us, along with personal qualities. I am sure you are indispensible, though you have to deal with folks with little training and a lot of not so bright ideas. I am sorry if I have caused trouble.

Best,

Carey


Carey from Ennis, Texas 78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.

[Updated on: Sat, 16 August 2014 14:37]

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