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230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257708] Sun, 03 August 2014 22:33 Go to next message
George Beckman is currently offline  George Beckman   United States
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
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Senior Member
I wrote this when we were at 4600 feet at a private camp with friends from our former church. We drove down Thursday from our new home in Colfax. The San Joaquin Valley was hot. Hot and dry. Hot and dry and dusty. It was probably dusty because it is so dry.

The dash air and the auxiliary unit worked OK. Then one lane was shut down with "Right Lane Closed Ahead". I have been in Canada and other states where as sign like this causes drivers to move to the left lane. Not in California. Some, of course move over but extra traffic in the left lane slows it a bit so other drivers jump out into the right lane. Traffic that could have moved through the area at 45 MPH now sat, not moving for 10 minutes. Gotta love CA drivers.

We shut off the dash air and started the Onan and roof air. The temperature brushed 230 but if I put it in neutral and passed a little air over the radiator it would cool back down to 220. I don't like 220.

Later we started into the mountains. We could go about 50 through much of the foothills and the temperature ran about 220. I don't like 220. I shut off the dash air. The temperature ran about 220. I don't like 220.

Once we were in the switch backs the temp got to 230 again. Is my gauge accurate? No idea. It is relatively new- 5 years.

So, we ran 230 for about five miles. If it got level at all it cooled to 220. I don't like 220.

No vapor lock. I thought I felt a sputter as I hit the gas on a hairpin but it went fine. Got to camp and shut it off. It went to 230+. I don't like 220.

Do I care?

I suppose if I am honest, not really.


'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
Re: 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257712 is a reply to message #257708] Mon, 04 August 2014 00:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
roy1 is currently offline  roy1   United States
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Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
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At those temperatures the clutch fan should have engaged and brought the temperature down too 190 or 200. Is it working?

Roy Keen Minden,NV 76 X Glenbrook
Re: 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257738 is a reply to message #257708] Mon, 04 August 2014 09:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
Senior Member
George Beckman wrote on Sun, 03 August 2014 22:33

...
Then one lane was shut down with "Right Lane Closed Ahead". I have been in Canada and other states where as sign like this causes drivers to move to the left lane. Not in California. Some, of course move over but extra traffic in the left lane slows it a bit so other drivers jump out into the right lane. Traffic that could have moved through the area at 45 MPH now sat, not moving for 10 minutes. Gotta love CA drivers.


The RIGHT way is for no one to move out of the right lane until it ends. That way all traffic is moving as fast as possible and no one can zoom by and disturb the 'holier than thous' in the left lane. Because as we all know, if youre not already in the left lane they aint gonna let you in. So when someone does George Jestson into the left lane everyone has to hit the brakes and the resulting shock wave is what causes the long stops for no reason.

Google 'Zipper Merge'
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/zippermerge/
http://arstechnica.com/cars/2014/07/the-beauty-of-zipper-merging-or-why-you-should-drive-ruder/


Quote:


Once we were in the switch backs the temp got to 230 again. Is my gauge accurate? No idea. It is relatively new- 5 years.

So, we ran 230 for about five miles. If it got level at all it cooled to 220. I don't like 220.

No vapor lock. I thought I felt a sputter as I hit the gas on a hairpin but it went fine. Got to camp and shut it off. It went to 230+. I don't like 220.

Do I care?

I suppose if I am honest, not really.


220/230 actual temperature IS too high.
But if youre relying on a factory , and uncalibrated gauge it's only a guess.

If you're that hot idle the engine before shutting it down to help cool it off, high idle is best.

Check your fan clutch as mentioned above



Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
Re: 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257746 is a reply to message #257712] Mon, 04 August 2014 10:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
George Beckman is currently offline  George Beckman   United States
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Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
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roy1 wrote on Sun, 03 August 2014 22:27
At those temperatures the clutch fan should have engaged and brought the temperature down too 190 or 200. Is it working?



Thanks to Keith and Roy for mentioning the fan clutch. It is a new Delco. This was the first trip with it. I tried Delco after trying NAPA, O'Reilys, etc. using all the special magic numbers found here and in the crossover parts list from GMCMI.

The Delco never roared like a turbo jet taking off, but it is not a Heavy Duty. I was trying to avoid the super duper heavy duty clutch. I did have a nice medium duty from O'Riely's that I liked and did hear it getting with it from time to time but for me most fan clutches last a year or two and fail. I am underwhelmed with this Delco. I don't like 220*, but I lost no sleep over it.



'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
Re: [GMCnet] 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257747 is a reply to message #257738] Mon, 04 August 2014 10:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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Well, I blame it all on the Ctrans worker's supervisors. You know the ones.
They always appear at any work site in clusters of 3 or 4. Rest of the time
they each cruise around in yellow pick up trucks, 1 to a truck. They have
the worker bees set up warning signs and cones miles in advance. For the
responsible drivers out there, they move into the correct lane as directed
by the cones and signage, and drive along single file like they should, all
the time wondering "Where the heck is the work site?" Then comes into play
the RUDE, INATTENTIVE, DISTRACTED, IMPAIRED, LAMEASS OTHER drivers who
think they can just ace their way to the head of the line by roaring ahead
in the closed lane. Makes me long for a RPG launch tube accessory. (Very
big grin). California by no means has the exclusive rights to this
behavior. Saw it along the entire Route 66 this summer.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or.
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Aug 4, 2014 8:11 AM, "Keith V" wrote:

> George Beckman wrote on Sun, 03 August 2014 22:33
>> ...
>> Then one lane was shut down with "Right Lane Closed Ahead". I have been
> in Canada and other states where as sign like this causes drivers to move
>> to the left lane. Not in California. Some, of course move over but extra
> traffic in the left lane slows it a bit so other drivers jump out into the
>> right lane. Traffic that could have moved through the area at 45 MPH now
> sat, not moving for 10 minutes. Gotta love CA drivers.
>
>
> The RIGHT way is for no one to move out of the right lane until it ends.
> That way all traffic is moving as fast as possible and no one can zoom by
> and
> disturb the 'holier than thous' in the left lane. Because as we all know,
> if youre not already in the left lane they aint gonna let you in. So when
> someone does George Jestson into the left lane everyone has to hit the
> brakes and the resulting shock wave is what causes the long stops for no
> reason.
>
> Google 'Zipper Merge'
> http://www.dot.state.mn.us/zippermerge/
>
> http://arstechnica.com/cars/2014/07/the-beauty-of-zipper-merging-or-why-you-should-drive-ruder/
>
>
> Quote:
>> Once we were in the switch backs the temp got to 230 again. Is my gauge
> accurate? No idea. It is relatively new- 5 years.
>>
>> So, we ran 230 for about five miles. If it got level at all it cooled to
> 220. I don't like 220.
>>
>> No vapor lock. I thought I felt a sputter as I hit the gas on a hairpin
> but it went fine. Got to camp and shut it off. It went to 230+. I don't
>> like 220.
>>
>> Do I care?
>>
>> I suppose if I am honest, not really.
>
>
> 220/230 actual temperature IS too high.
> But if youre relying on a factory , and uncalibrated gauge it's only a
> guess.
>
> If you're that hot idle the engine before shutting it down to help cool it
> off, high idle is best.
>
> Check your fan clutch as mentioned above
>
>
> --
> Keith
> 69 Vette
> 29 Dodge
> 75 Royale GMC
> Mounds View. MN
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Re: 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257753 is a reply to message #257708] Mon, 04 August 2014 11:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
midlf is currently offline  midlf   United States
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
Senior Member
As mentioned is your "220" really 220. I would get another remote reading thermometer. Boil it and determine where/what 212F looks like/reads on that device. Then tape that sensing unit to yours and insulate with a rag or some other method and go for a run. Compare the your 220 reading device to the "boiling water calibrated" thermometer. Then you can determine if your 220 really is 220.

The other option is to partially drain your cooling system, remove the sender from the manifold, connect it to ground and find a way to boil it. (usually a can of water heated with a torch. Then see what your gage reads at 212. Correct for altitude if you are significantly higher than sea level.


Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
Re: 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257754 is a reply to message #257753] Mon, 04 August 2014 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Otterwan   United States
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
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Senior Member
I bought a mechanical Sun temperature gauge a few months ago. Put the sender in a pot of water on the stove along with a very accurate digital cooking thermometer I use for beer making. Turned on the heat and watched. The Sun gauge lagged the digital gauge by at least 10 degrees as the water heated up. But the scary part was at the boiling point. With the digital gauge twitching back and forth between 211 and 212 and the water bubbling merrily, the Sun gauge read a rock solid 204. That's not good. It went back.

1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
Re: [GMCnet] 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257760 is a reply to message #257747] Mon, 04 August 2014 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
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Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
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Senior Member
James Hupy wrote on Mon, 04 August 2014 10:43
Then comes into play
the RUDE, INATTENTIVE, DISTRACTED, IMPAIRED, LAMEASS OTHER drivers who
think they can just ace their way to the head of the line by roaring ahead
in the closed lane.


You're not getting it. The lane is closING, not closED.
Don't move over till you have to. If you do, YOU are the problem.


Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
Re: [GMCnet] 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257761 is a reply to message #257754] Mon, 04 August 2014 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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George, a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water will boil at sea level, 14.7
psi atmospheric pressure, at 225 degrees. A 15 pound radiator cap will
increase the boiling point to around 265 degrees, a 9 pound cap like our
GMC's are supposed to have will raise it to nearly 245 - 250 or so. Should
you want your system to run at 230 degrees? The short answer is no. Will it
harm anything if it gets that high? Maybe not. I prefer to see the temps in
the 190 - 205 range. The stock dash gage in the GMC cluster is not
particularly accurate, but some of the aftermarket stuff is just as bad.
Just my take on it. You will get opinions all over the spectrum on this.
Modern cars run higher temps than our GMC's.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403


On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 9:28 AM, David Orders wrote:

> I bought a mechanical Sun temperature gauge a few months ago. Put the
> sender in a pot of water on the stove along with a very accurate digital
> cooking
> thermometer I use for beer making. Turned on the heat and watched. The Sun
> gauge lagged the digital gauge by at least 10 degrees as the water heated
> up. But the scary part was at the boiling point. With the digital gauge
> twitching back and forth between 211 and 212 and the water bubbling merrily,
> the Sun gauge read a rock solid 204. That's not good. It went back.
> --
> 1976 Royale "Twinkie II", 1978 Palm Beach with front end fire. Lynnwood WA
> - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we
> treat one another is entirely up to us."
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [GMCnet] 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257762 is a reply to message #257760] Mon, 04 August 2014 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Olly Schmidt is currently offline  Olly Schmidt   United States
Messages: 1265
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Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
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Senior Member
Keith,
> James Hupy wrote on Mon, 04 August 2014 10:43
>> Then comes into play
>> the RUDE, INATTENTIVE, DISTRACTED, IMPAIRED, LAMEASS OTHER drivers who
>> think they can just ace their way to the head of the line by roaring ahead
>> in the closed lane.
>
> You're not getting it. The lane is closING, not closED.
> Don't move over till you have to. If you do, YOU are the problem.

Not to defend the Californians at all, but the same happens all over the
world. At least, all the places where I have driven, people fail to
understand that you should drive til the end and slide in to the open
lane. If everybody would be doing the right thing, we would have less
traffic jams. Oh, and if people would stop looking at the accident at
the other side of the fence, that would be helpful as well...

--
Best regards

Peer Oliver Schmidt
the internet company
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

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Best regards

Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
Re: 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257764 is a reply to message #257708] Mon, 04 August 2014 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim Galbavy is currently offline  Jim Galbavy   United States
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Registered: August 2007
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Senior Member
George,

Check your gauge against a laser thermometer. Things may not be as
bad as they look.

jim galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, FL

[Updated on: Mon, 04 August 2014 12:35]

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Re: [GMCnet] 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257767 is a reply to message #257764] Mon, 04 August 2014 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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Keith, no further comment is necessary. (Grin)
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403


On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Jim Galbavy wrote:

> George,
>
> Check your gauge against a laser thermometer. Thinks may not be as
> bad as they look.
>
> jim galbavy
> '73 x-CL ANNIE
> Lake Mary, FL
>
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Re: [GMCnet] 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257771 is a reply to message #257760] Mon, 04 August 2014 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
George Beckman is currently offline  George Beckman   United States
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Keith V wrote on Mon, 04 August 2014 10:19
James Hupy wrote on Mon, 04 August 2014 10:43
Then comes into play
the RUDE, INATTENTIVE, DISTRACTED, IMPAIRED, LAMEASS OTHER drivers who
think they can just ace their way to the head of the line by roaring ahead
in the closed lane.


You're not getting it. The lane is closING, not closED.
Don't move over till you have to. If you do, YOU are the problem.


Sorry, Keith. Merging everyone in a two mile space has a much better chance than merging in 40 feet when the cones are crowding in. That's why the signs are two miles out. 1) you _have_ to merge, so merge and 2) merging is easier at 45 than when stopped 0.

Just my opinion.

I have a laser heat gun and will do the check offered earlier. The engine was not boiling and no coolant was lost. I say, if there is still water in the rig, no harm done. I still don't like 220*


'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
Re: [GMCnet] 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257780 is a reply to message #257771] Mon, 04 August 2014 14:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
Senior Member
George Beckman wrote on Mon, 04 August 2014 13:43


Sorry, Keith. Merging everyone in a two mile space has a much better chance than merging in 40 feet when the cones are crowding in. That's why the signs are two miles out. 1) you _have_ to merge, so merge and 2) merging is easier at 45 than when stopped 0.


This is important. It's the right way to merge.
I'm on a mission to undo years of brainwashing that you need to move over at the first lane closed ahead sign. The signs are there to remind you, not to make you merge. That's why they say "lane closed ahead", not "Merge Left".
When you see the "Merge Left" sign, then you merge.

( This only applies in heavy traffic, not light traffic )

1. Read what the MN DOT says in my links above.
2. The zipper merge eliminates the shock wave from early merges
3. The zipper merge prevents 'jerks' from driving by you on that open lane ( they are doing nothing wrong )
4. using both lanes as long as possible will keep the average speed higher
5. zipper merge removes the "if you're not in my lane by now I'm not letting you in" mentality

I've done it both ways, Minnesota is pushing hard on the zipper merge, the zipper merge is less stressful and faster than early merging.


Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
Re: [GMCnet] 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257781 is a reply to message #257771] Mon, 04 August 2014 14:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
roy1 is currently offline  roy1   United States
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Location: Minden nevada
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George Beckman wrote on Mon, 04 August 2014 11:43
Keith V wrote on Mon, 04 August 2014 10:19
James Hupy wrote on Mon, 04 August 2014 10:43
Then comes into play
the RUDE, INATTENTIVE, DISTRACTED, IMPAIRED, LAMEASS OTHER drivers who
think they can just ace their way to the head of the line by roaring ahead
in the closed lane.


You're not getting it. The lane is closING, not closED.
Don't move over till you have to. If you do, YOU are the problem.


Sorry, Keith. Merging everyone in a two mile space has a much better chance than merging in 40 feet when the cones are crowding in. That's why the signs are two miles out. 1) you _have_ to merge, so merge and 2) merging is easier at 45 than when stopped 0.

Just my opinion.

I have a laser heat gun and will do the check offered earlier. The engine was not boiling and no coolant was lost. I say, if there is still water in the rig, no harm done. I still don't like 220*


The laser pointed at the thermostat housing should give an accurate check at least it has worked for me. 220 or 230 shouldn't boil the water out of the radiator with the correct cap but I wouldn't be content with those water temperatures. My last Haden 2797 heavy duty clutch isn't near as noisy as earlier ones I can hear when it is engaged but the sound isn't irritating .


Roy Keen Minden,NV 76 X Glenbrook
Re: [GMCnet] 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257789 is a reply to message #257780] Mon, 04 August 2014 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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Senior Member
Well George, I just re -read this thread and I figure that I am responsible
for a MAJOR HIJACKING. Sorry for that. Hope you get your temperature Gage
sorted out. Hate to see these GMC coaches get overheated.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or.
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Aug 4, 2014 12:47 PM, "Keith V" wrote:

> George Beckman wrote on Mon, 04 August 2014 13:43
>> Sorry, Keith. Merging everyone in a two mile space has a much better
> chance than merging in 40 feet when the cones are crowding in. That's why
> the
>> signs are two miles out. 1) you _have_ to merge, so merge and 2) merging
> is easier at 45 than when stopped 0.
>
>
> This is important. It's the right way to merge.
> I'm on a mission to undo years of brainwashing that you need to move over
> at the first lane closed ahead sign. The signs are there to remind you, not
> to make you merge. That's why they say "lane closed ahead", not "Merge
> Left".
> When you see the "Merge Left" sign, then you merge.
>
> ( This only applies in heavy traffic, not light traffic )
>
> 1. Read what the MN DOT says in my links above.
> 2. The zipper merge eliminates the shock wave from early merges
> 3. The zipper merge prevents 'jerks' from driving by you on that open lane
> ( they are doing nothing wrong )
> 4. using both lanes as long as possible will keep the average speed higher
> 5. zipper merge removes the "if you're not in my lane by now I'm not
> letting you in" mentality
>
> I've done it both ways, Minnesota is pushing hard on the zipper merge, the
> zipper merge is less stressful and faster than early merging.
>
> --
> Keith
> 69 Vette
> 29 Dodge
> 75 Royale GMC
> Mounds View. MN
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Re: 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257804 is a reply to message #257754] Mon, 04 August 2014 18:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
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Senior Member
Otterwan wrote on Mon, 04 August 2014 12:28
I bought a mechanical Sun temperature gauge a few months ago. Put the sender in a pot of water on the stove along with a very accurate digital cooking thermometer I use for beer making. Turned on the heat and watched. The Sun gauge lagged the digital gauge by at least 10 degrees as the water heated up. But the scary part was at the boiling point. With the digital gauge twitching back and forth between 211 and 212 and the water bubbling merrily, the Sun gauge read a rock solid 204. That's not good. It went back.

Otter,

Just a thought question, Did you adjust your expected boiling temperature for your altitude?

Matt - who got stuck with wet "hard boiled" eggs in an unforgetable experience.


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257806 is a reply to message #257708] Mon, 04 August 2014 18:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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Location: S.E. Michigan
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Senior Member
George Beckman wrote on Sun, 03 August 2014 23:33
<snip>
Later we started into the mountains. We could go about 50 through much of the foothills and the temperature ran about 220. I don't like 220. I shut off the dash air. The temperature ran about 220. I don't like 220.

Once we were in the switch backs the temp got to 230 again. Is my gauge accurate? No idea. It is relatively new- 5 years.

So, we ran 230 for about five miles. If it got level at all it cooled to 220. I don't like 220.

No vapor lock. I thought I felt a sputter as I hit the gas on a hairpin but it went fine. Got to camp and shut it off. It went to 230+. I don't like 220.

Do I care?

I suppose if I am honest, not really.

George,

Until the head temperature gets so high it drives pre-ignition, Don't Care.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257809 is a reply to message #257780] Mon, 04 August 2014 19:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lotsofspareparts is currently offline  lotsofspareparts   United States
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Location: Arlington, WA
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Senior Member
Keith V wrote on Mon, 04 August 2014 12:45
George Beckman wrote on Mon, 04 August 2014 13:43


Sorry, Keith. Merging everyone in a two mile space has a much better chance than merging in 40 feet when the cones are crowding in. That's why the signs are two miles out. 1) you _have_ to merge, so merge and 2) merging is easier at 45 than when stopped 0.


This is important. It's the right way to merge.
I'm on a mission to undo years of brainwashing that you need to move over at the first lane closed ahead sign. The signs are there to remind you, not to make you merge. That's why they say "lane closed ahead", not "Merge Left".
When you see the "Merge Left" sign, then you merge.

( This only applies in heavy traffic, not light traffic )

1. Read what the MN DOT says in my links above.
2. The zipper merge eliminates the shock wave from early merges
3. The zipper merge prevents 'jerks' from driving by you on that open lane ( they are doing nothing wrong )
4. using both lanes as long as possible will keep the average speed higher
5. zipper merge removes the "if you're not in my lane by now I'm not letting you in" mentality

I've done it both ways, Minnesota is pushing hard on the zipper merge, the zipper merge is less stressful and faster than early merging.


They are actually pushing that up here in Washington State as well, have been a few radio commercials about it. "Wait, Merge Late" or something like that. My FIL works for DOT and says that it is supposed to help the flow of traffic just like all of the traffic circles popping up around here.

He also says the biggest problem is the "your not getting in front of me" mentality and the fact that westerners have no clue how to properly navigate roundabouts, especially in heavy traffic. They are intended to help here but are almost having a negative effect. I lived in Germany for 8 years and was absolutely astounded at how fast the drivers over there would negotiate a large 2 lane roundabout.

I for one agree with Jim, when it says a lane is closed ahead I go ahead and get over. I do that because I have the room to get over and don't have to look like a douche stuck in the lane that is closing cause no one will let me in because I just passed a mile of stopped traffic and they are pissed at me. Trust me, I don't want to let that guy in either.

That's just me though, do what you want.


Jared


Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter..... 77 Eleganza II "Recherché"..... 73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
Re: 230 Degrees Fahrenheit [message #257820 is a reply to message #257738] Mon, 04 August 2014 20:34 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
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Registered: April 2011
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Keith V wrote on Mon, 04 August 2014 09:51
The RIGHT way is for no one to move out of the right lane until it ends. That way all traffic is moving as fast as possible and no one can zoom by and disturb the 'holier than thous' in the left lane. Because as we all know, if youre not already in the left lane they aint gonna let you in. So when someone does George Jestson into the left lane everyone has to hit the brakes and the resulting shock wave is what causes the long stops for no reason.

Google 'Zipper Merge'
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/zippermerge/
http://arstechnica.com/cars/2014/07/the-beauty-of-zipper-merging-or-why-you-should-drive-ruder/
That is only the "right" way when traffic volume and clueless drivers turn it into that as the last resort. Even one of your links said if traffic is moving at speed, merge early and well ahead of the closure. I lived and drove in the Washington DC metro area for about 12 years, and the traffic volume there, coupled with the general donkeyhole-ness of East coast drivers, degrades into a zipper anyway.

Now let me explain how I handle jackdonkeys that think they are entitled by God to blow past everyone waiting their turn to enter the non-closed lane to shoehorn themselves in the front of the line.

I move over into the closING lane and move at the speed of the non-closING lane. When I get to the cones, the driver that was behind me when I was in the non-closING lane is so grateful that someone stood up to the jackdonkeys trying to get ahead of everyone else, they wave me in. And none of us are inclined to accommodate the jackholes that are on my bumper blowing their horns and flashing their lights and gesturing that I am number 1. And the point where the cones are has now become your "zipper" for the people that thought they were going to get in front of everyone else.
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