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Coolant shutoff valves and locations [message #256383] Thu, 24 July 2014 12:25 Go to next message
mickey szilagyi is currently offline  mickey szilagyi   United States
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We've read here about installing shutoff valves in the coolant hoses going back to the hot water heater. We love this feature of getting hot water from the engine, it's worked great. In the event of a problem it seems like a good idea to be able to shut off those lines to avoid coolant loss or even damage to other things. We're looking for suggestions on where to install these shutoff valves. I started to look at the hoses and it almost seems logical to place them inside the engine compartment near where the one feed hose comes out of the engine head and runs back to the water heater. The second water heater hose runs along side of it and up to the front of the engine, haven't seen yet where exactly it runs to but this seems like an easy place to access them. I'm assuming we'd need to install two shutoff valves, one in each of the hoses running back to the water heater. We're wondering what others have done and how it has worked out.

Any other places that might be a good idea to place these valves?

Thank you so much!


Mickey 1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
Re: [GMCnet] Coolant shutoff valves and locations [message #256385 is a reply to message #256383] Thu, 24 July 2014 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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Senior Member
Mickey, Some will say that only the line coming from the top of the engine
intake manifold towards the water heater needs to be shut off, and will
support that belief with empirical data and spread sheets. Others will
state that "No, you need two way valves that create a bypass loop back to
the engine". Personal experience with both methods has sent me into the
mind set that both ways will work well. I am firm in my belief, though,
that fewer parts and hoses are better than more stuff. I believe it was
Kettering that said parts left out of vehicles or assemblies have a zero
failure rate, and cause no service problems later.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
GMC ROYALE 403
On Jul 24, 2014 10:25 AM, "Mickey Szilagyi"
wrote:

> We've read here about installing shutoff valves in the coolant hoses going
> back to the hot water heater. We love this feature of getting hot water
> from the engine, it's worked great. In the event of a problem it seems
> like a good idea to be able to shut off those lines to avoid coolant loss or
> even damage to other things. We're looking for suggestions on where to
> install these shutoff valves. I started to look at the hoses and it almost
> seems logical to place them inside the engine compartment near where the
> one feed hose comes out of the engine head and runs back to the water
> heater.
> The second water heater hose runs along side of it and up to the front of
> the engine, haven't seen yet where exactly it runs to but this seems like
> an easy place to access them. I'm assuming we'd need to install two
> shutoff valves, one in each of the hoses running back to the water heater.
> We're
> wondering what others have done and how it has worked out.
>
> Any other places that might be a good idea to place these valves?
>
> Thank you so much!
> --
> Mickey
> 1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Re: [GMCnet] Coolant shutoff valves and locations [message #256389 is a reply to message #256385] Thu, 24 July 2014 13:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob de Kruyff   United States
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
Senior Member
"" I am firm in my belief, though,
that fewer parts and hoses are better than more stuff. I believe it was
Kettering that said parts left out of vehicles or assemblies have a zero
failure rate, and cause no service problems later.
""

A man of my heart !!


Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
Re: [GMCnet] Coolant shutoff valves and locations [message #256394 is a reply to message #256389] Thu, 24 July 2014 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
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Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
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Senior Member
I am right about to do this.
So one shut off valve screwed into the back of the intake manifold is what you are proposing?

I guess if the other hose is in Suction it's less likely to fail?


Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
Re: [GMCnet] Coolant shutoff valves and locations [message #256395 is a reply to message #256389] Thu, 24 July 2014 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr ERFisher is currently offline  Mr ERFisher   United States
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Senior Member
Especially on brake vacuum systems
Erf

FREE WIFI @ Mickey D





On Jul 24, 2014, at 11:19 AM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:

> "" I am firm in my belief, though,
> that fewer parts and hoses are better than more stuff. I believe it was
> Kettering that said parts left out of vehicles or assemblies have a zero
> failure rate, and cause no service problems later.
> ""
>
> A man of my heart !!
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Re: [GMCnet] Coolant shutoff valves and locations [message #256400 is a reply to message #256385] Thu, 24 July 2014 15:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mickey szilagyi is currently offline  mickey szilagyi   United States
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Registered: January 2013
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Senior Member
James Hupy wrote on Thu, 24 July 2014 12:41
Mickey, Some will say that only the line coming from the top of the engine
intake manifold towards the water heater needs to be shut off, and will
support that belief with empirical data and spread sheets. Others will
state that "No, you need two way valves that create a bypass loop back to
the engine". Personal experience with both methods has sent me into the
mind set that both ways will work well. I am firm in my belief, though,
that fewer parts and hoses are better than more stuff. I believe it was
Kettering that said parts left out of vehicles or assemblies have a zero
failure rate, and cause no service problems later.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
GMC ROYALE 403



Thanks Jim, that makes sense and I was wondering if one valve would do it or not since the flow goes in one direction. And, I definitely agree that the simpler, the better! Still thinking about this and not sure if we will do it or not, but if we do we will know how and where. We're about to go through and replace some or all of the 5/8" hoses as we are not sure if they are original or not. They are starting to crack up near the heater core and other areas. New hoses might just be enough insurance for now.

Thanks much, as always.


Mickey 1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
Re: Coolant shutoff valves and locations [message #256411 is a reply to message #256383] Thu, 24 July 2014 17:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
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Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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Senior Member
I am at a loss as to why you would want to do such a thing. If you feel the hoses are bad and may fail, replace them.

That said, If you are trying to just turn off flow through the water heater then one valve anywhere in the system will work.

If you are trying to disconnect the one of the hoses and drive the coach then BOTH lines will have to be turned off. You will need two valves or a bypass and shutoff valve connected to both lines upstream. The whole cooling system is pressurized to around 9 PSI while driving and will leak anywhere you open it up.

While you are at it you might as well develop a similar valve system for the cabin heater. It has the same failure exposure.

It seems much simpler to just replace the suspect hoses. I just last night replaced the servicable heater hoses on my 16 year old Blazer. I was in there replacing an intake manifold gasket. The removed hoses had nothing wrong with them after 16 years and could have easily gone much longer.

So if it bothers you that much, simply replace the hoses and worry about it again 15 or 20 years from now. If they are bad, you are going to have to replace them anyway after you turn the valve(s) off.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] Coolant shutoff valves and locations [message #256486 is a reply to message #256411] Fri, 25 July 2014 08:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
powerjon is currently offline  powerjon   United States
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This is the valve that I used, got it from Lowes in the plumbing section.
See captions on photos.




JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan

On Jul 24, 2014, at 6:41 PM, Ken Burton wrote:

> I am at a loss as to why you would want to do such a thing. If you feel the hoses are bad and may fail, replace them.
>
> That said, If you are trying to just turn off flow through the water heater then one valve anywhere in the system will work.
>
> If you are trying to disconnect the one of the hoses and drive the coach then BOTH lines will have to be turned off. You will need two valves or a
> bypass and shutoff valve connected to both lines upstream. The whole cooling system is pressurized to around 9 PSI while driving and will leak
> anywhere you open it up.
>
> While you are at it you might as well develop a similar valve system for the cabin heater. It has the same failure exposure.
>
> It seems much simpler to just replace the suspect hoses. I just last night replaced the servicable heater hoses on my 16 year old Blazer. I was in
> there replacing an intake manifold gasket. The removed hoses had nothing wrong with them after 16 years and could have easily gone much longer.
>
> So if it bothers you that much, simply replace the hoses and worry about it again 15 or 20 years from now. If they are bad, you are going to have to
> replace them anyway after you turn the valve(s) off.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
Re: Coolant shutoff valves and locations [message #256494 is a reply to message #256411] Fri, 25 July 2014 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mickey szilagyi is currently offline  mickey szilagyi   United States
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Registered: January 2013
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Senior Member
Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 24 July 2014 17:41
I am at a loss as to why you would want to do such a thing. If you feel the hoses are bad and may fail, replace them.

That said, If you are trying to just turn off flow through the water heater then one valve anywhere in the system will work.

If you are trying to disconnect the one of the hoses and drive the coach then BOTH lines will have to be turned off. You will need two valves or a bypass and shutoff valve connected to both lines upstream. The whole cooling system is pressurized to around 9 PSI while driving and will leak anywhere you open it up.

While you are at it you might as well develop a similar valve system for the cabin heater. It has the same failure exposure.

It seems much simpler to just replace the suspect hoses. I just last night replaced the servicable heater hoses on my 16 year old Blazer. I was in there replacing an intake manifold gasket. The removed hoses had nothing wrong with them after 16 years and could have easily gone much longer.

So if it bothers you that much, simply replace the hoses and worry about it again 15 or 20 years from now. If they are bad, you are going to have to replace them anyway after you turn the valve(s) off.


Thanks Ken. Two purposes for this, one is if the water heater boils over (which we've read can happen, so far we've not had it happen to us) we'd have a way to turn off coolant going back to it. The other is if a leak ever developed somewhere in those lines (as they have a long stretch exposed under the coach) or back at the exchanger at the water tank they'd provide a way to continue to run the coach despite the leak.

Point taken on the front heater core, I've thought about that as well.

As always thank you for the feedback... still in thinking mode on this one.


Mickey 1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
Re: Coolant shutoff valves and locations [message #256509 is a reply to message #256494] Fri, 25 July 2014 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
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Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
Senior Member
I plan on having the valves ( 2 ) shut off both the heater and the hot water heater.
I only plan on using it for emergencies, so it's just a feel good solution, not a performance improvement.
Tho JC whitney may claim a lower ET


Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
Re: [GMCnet] Coolant shutoff valves and locations [message #256515 is a reply to message #256383] Fri, 25 July 2014 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim at the Co-op is currently offline  Jim at the Co-op   United States
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Location: Orlando Florida
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Senior Member
Put some good quality brass ball valves on both hoses going to the water
heater right at the motor,also put a set on the hoses going to the dash
heater also next to the motor. That way, no matter what leaks you have
control.

Jim Bounds
-----------------------


On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Mickey Szilagyi
wrote:

> We've read here about installing shutoff valves in the coolant hoses going
> back to the hot water heater. We love this feature of getting hot water
> from the engine, it's worked great. In the event of a problem it seems
> like a good idea to be able to shut off those lines to avoid coolant loss or
> even damage to other things. We're looking for suggestions on where to
> install these shutoff valves. I started to look at the hoses and it almost
> seems logical to place them inside the engine compartment near where the
> one feed hose comes out of the engine head and runs back to the water
> heater.
> The second water heater hose runs along side of it and up to the front of
> the engine, haven't seen yet where exactly it runs to but this seems like
> an easy place to access them. I'm assuming we'd need to install two
> shutoff valves, one in each of the hoses running back to the water heater.
> We're
> wondering what others have done and how it has worked out.
>
> Any other places that might be a good idea to place these valves?
>
> Thank you so much!
> --
> Mickey
> 1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Re: Coolant shutoff valves and locations [message #256521 is a reply to message #256494] Fri, 25 July 2014 14:33 Go to previous message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
Senior Member
Mickey.

I do have a single shut off ball valve in the line to my cabin heater. I shut it off in the summer to remove a heat source in my heater AC box. You can do the same if you want to reduce the flow to the house water heater. I have never thought about doing that.

As far a boiling goes, if the water heater gets that hot, you have an engine cooling problem somewhere and I would worry about the engine. Also there is a over temperature safety valve on the water heater (required by law) that trips and blows the excess (boiling) water overboard.

As I stated before, if you want to isolate the cabin or water heater completely in order to disconnect a hose, then you will need two valves. One on the incoming and one on the outgoing hose. (one is 3/4 " and the other is 5/8") If you are only stopping the flow, then only one valve is needed.



Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

[Updated on: Fri, 25 July 2014 14:34]

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