Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Front Rotor, Bearing and Brake Options
| [GMCnet] Front Rotor, Bearing and Brake Options [message #255800] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 15:16  |
Daniel DeLuca
Messages: 120
Registered: June 2014
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Sorry I have been emailing the forum so much. I am getting ready to move on to my next phase of fixing up the coach, overhauling the brake system.
The coach sat for 7 years and the front rotors have a lot of rust. I will either need to take them off to get them cut or put new ones on. Here is a picture of them.
http://imgur.com/jbQExNy
First, is it plausible to cut rotors with that much rust or should I get new ones? Frankly I don’t even know who still cuts rotors around here.
Secondly I know that I will need to pull the bearings to get at the rotors. The coach has 13,500 miles on it. Assuming I acquire a bearing puller is it possible to pull the bearings repack them and put them back on (with new seals) or do I defiantly need new bearings? With the proper tools is the bearing job that hard, I’d like to do it myself but some of the pages say leave it to experts.
Thats all for now!
Thanks,
Dan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Rotor, Bearing and Brake Options [message #255804 is a reply to message #255800] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 15:56  |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726
Registered: May 2014
Location: Arlington, WA
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Dan, until you get everything apart it is hard to determine if you will NEED new bearings. If the coach only has true 13,500 miles on it then I seriously doubt they would need to be replaced.
As for the rotors, I would pull them and have them turned, I did replace mine but they warped pretty bad after driving my coach home with no rear brakes. Needless to say when I pulled the calipers off, the pads fell apart.
My opinion of course. Haven't been working on the GMCMH forever but have been turning wrenches for 19 years.
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
[Updated on: Fri, 18 July 2014 16:49] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Rotor, Bearing and Brake Options [message #255807 is a reply to message #255804] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 18:12 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
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Daniel
If it really has only 13500 it's unlikely you'll need new bearings.
Has it crossed your mind to just put on some new pads and see what it does
to your rotors..it might clean them off and $20 is a lot cheaper than the
new rotors.
If you're doing the work yourself, pull the wheels in a hundred miles and
see what it did. The worst that can hapen is you are right back where you
are now and down $20.
What a Scotsman would do....
Mike in NS
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Jared wrote:
> Dan, until you get everything apart it is hard to determine if you will
> NEED new bearings. If the coach only has true 13,500 miles on it then I
> seriously doubt they would need to be replaced.
>
> As for the rotors, I would pull them and have them turned, I did replace
> mine but they warped pretty bad after driving my couch home with no rear
> brakes. Needless to say when I pulled the calipers off, the pads fell
> apart.
>
> My opinion of course. Haven't been working on the GMCMH forever but have
> been turning wrenches for 19 years.
>
> Jared
> --
> Jared & Tina Lazaron + 7yr old Daughter.
>
> 77 Eleganza II "Recherché" Winterfeldt 455, Holley ProJection, Doug
> Thorley Headers, 3in exhaust, Switch Pitch, Alcoas, ONAN 6.5 Emerald
> series, CMC
> Restoration
>
> GO SEAHAWKS!!
>
> Arlington, WA 98223
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
* This is my second trip through the 60's; the first time the drugs were
better !
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Rotor, Bearing and Brake Options [message #255808 is a reply to message #255807] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 18:33 |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726
Registered: May 2014
Location: Arlington, WA
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Kingsley Coach wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 16:12 put on some new pads and see what it does
to your rotors..it might clean them off and $20 is a lot cheaper than the
new rotors.
That would certainly be the cheap way to do it, albeit the wrong way.
After I got my coach I decided the cheap way was not going to do it. I want a reliable coach that runs, drives, and stops exactly as it was designed to.
Imagine you are doing the brakes on the car that hauls your family around?
Always remember this above anything else,..... every time you step on your brake pedal..... your brakes are saving your life.
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Rotor, Bearing and Brake Options [message #255813 is a reply to message #255800] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 19:00 |
bwevers
Messages: 597
Registered: October 2010
Location: San Jose
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I should have brought my coach to a garage that knows GMCs.... most
garages don't have the proper tools to work on the front wheel bearings.....
Bill Wevers GMC49ers, GMC Western States
1975 Glenbrook - Manny Powerdrive, OneTon
455 F Block, G heads
San Jose
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Rotor, Bearing and Brake Options [message #255814 is a reply to message #255813] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 19:16 |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726
Registered: May 2014
Location: Arlington, WA
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bwevers wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 17:00I should have brought my coach to a garage that knows GMCs.... most
garages don't have the proper tools to work on the front wheel bearings.....
I am trying to find a gentle way to say what I have to say and the words really do escape me.
Here goes...
I have done all of the work to my coach by myself. I didn't have access to the front bearing puller that the manual recommends so I went ahead and came up with something that worked just the same......
Sometimes I do hate the fact that I am mechanically inclined.... especially when I hear about someone taking their car to a shop and the shop did it wrong.
Trying to think of something softer to say but am unable.
I have more to say but am biting my tounge at the moment. It is a Friday night and I have pissed off to many people before.
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Rotor, Bearing and Brake Options [message #255816 is a reply to message #255815] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 19:27 |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726
Registered: May 2014
Location: Arlington, WA
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A Hamilto wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 17:18bwevers wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 18:37...If it's been sitting for any length of time the bearings are probably as rusty as the brake rotors....  Remotely possible, and highly unlikely. The bearings have seals to keep water out. The hubs can be completely submerged while driving and never get a drop in the bearings. Sitting still doesn't increase the pressure of any water trying to get past the seals.
And rust doesn't mean the rotors are shot. I would make sure the calipers move freely, wire brush the rust off the rotors, install new pads (and maybe flexible lines) bleed new fluid into the calipers and see if they leak. If they work and don't leak, find something that is actually wrong to right.
Argue if you want, but installed and working seems to have a lower failure rate than stuff you buy new or rebuilt at the auto parts store.
Every single suggestion is a great one. Except that it has been sitting and you should disassemble and inspect at the very least.
As long as you have it all apart I would have the rotors turned to remove the rust.
My opinion, Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Rotor, Bearing and Brake Options [message #255819 is a reply to message #255816] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 19:56 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
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[quote title=lotsofspareparts wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 19:27]A Hamilto wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 17:18Every single suggestion is a great one. Except that it has been sitting and you should disassemble and inspect at the very least.
As long as you have it all apart I would have the rotors turned to remove the rust.
My opinion, Jared I am a certified tightwad, and I will ALWAYS pay the difference and get NEW rotors. I have NEVER had a rotor turned that didn't shudder thereafter.
If it is a done deal that the bearings will be disassembled, then inspect the bearings, grease and re-assemble with new seals, and the knuckles drilled with new grease zerks. When you do that, you have 100,000 mile bearings (because they don't have to be pulled apart to be greased anymore). You certainly should then install NEW rotors, so you don't have to pull the knuckles and bearings apart again for a decade or two.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Rotor, Bearing and Brake Options [message #255820 is a reply to message #255800] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 19:56 |
powwerjon
Messages: 849
Registered: March 2013
Karma: -2
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Dan,
I would put a 60 grit sand pad on a DA sander and scuff up both sides and run them. Just clean the rust off.
J.R. Wright
30' Buskirk Stretch
Michigan
On Location in Tucson
On Jul 18, 2014, at 4:16 PM, Daniel DeLuca wrote:
> Sorry I have been emailing the forum so much. I am getting ready to move on to my next phase of fixing up the coach, overhauling the brake system.
>
> The coach sat for 7 years and the front rotors have a lot of rust. I will either need to take them off to get them cut or put new ones on. Here is a picture of them.
>
> http://imgur.com/jbQExNy
>
> First, is it plausible to cut rotors with that much rust or should I get new ones? Frankly I don’t even know who still cuts rotors around here.
>
> Secondly I know that I will need to pull the bearings to get at the rotors. The coach has 13,500 miles on it. Assuming I acquire a bearing puller is it possible to pull the bearings repack them and put them back on (with new seals) or do I defiantly need new bearings? With the proper tools is the bearing job that hard, I’d like to do it myself but some of the pages say leave it to experts.
>
> Thats all for now!
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Rotor, Bearing and Brake Options [message #255821 is a reply to message #255816] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 19:57 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Tks for the words of wisdom, Jared.
I have found that turned rotors tend to warp faster. If I was going through
the trouble to take the ft bearings apart to get at the rotors, I'd spend
the extra money to get new rotors.
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 9:27 PM, Jared wrote:
> A Hamilto wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 17:18
>> bwevers wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 18:37
>>> ...If it's been sitting for any length of time the bearings are
> probably as rusty as the brake rotors.... :cry:
>> Remotely possible, and highly unlikely. The bearings have seals to keep
> water out. The hubs can be completely submerged while driving and never
>> get a drop in the bearings. Sitting still doesn't increase the pressure
> of any water trying to get past the seals.
>>
>> And rust doesn't mean the rotors are shot. I would make sure the
> calipers move freely, wire brush the rust off the rotors, install new pads
> (and
>> maybe flexible lines) bleed new fluid into the calipers and see if they
> leak. If they work and don't leak, find something that is actually wrong to
>> right.
>>
>> Argue if you want, but installed and working seems to have a lower
> failure rate than stuff you buy new or rebuilt at the auto parts store.
>
>
> Every single suggestion is a great one. Except that it has been sitting
> and you should disassemble and inspect at the very least.
>
> As long as you have it all apart I would have the rotors turned to remove
> the rust.
>
> My opinion, Jared
>
> --
> Jared & Tina Lazaron + 7yr old Daughter.
>
> 77 Eleganza II "Recherché" Winterfeldt 455, Holley ProJection, Doug
> Thorley Headers, 3in exhaust, Switch Pitch, Alcoas, ONAN 6.5 Emerald
> series, CMC
> Restoration
>
> GO SEAHAWKS!!
>
> Arlington, WA 98223
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
* This is my second trip through the 60's; the first time the drugs were
better !
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Rotor, Bearing and Brake Options [message #255825 is a reply to message #255814] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 20:07 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Jared, just try and remind yourself what happened the last time you posted
"STUFF" after a few adult beverages. (Grin)
Jim Hupy
Salem, presently in Petaluma, Ca.
Yeah, I gets around a bit.
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jul 18, 2014 5:17 PM, "Jared" wrote:
> bwevers wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 17:00
>> I should have brought my coach to a garage that knows GMCs.... most
>> garages don't have the proper tools to work on the front wheel
> bearings.....
>
>
> I am trying to find a gentle way to say what I have to say and the words
> really do escape me.
>
> Here goes...
>
> I have done all of the work to my coach by myself. I didn't have access to
> the front bearing puller that the manual recommends so I went ahead and
> came up with something that worked just the same......
>
> Sometimes I do hate the fact that I am mechanically inclined....
> especially when I hear about someone taking their car to a shop and the
> shop did it
> wrong.
>
> Trying to think of something softer to say but am unable.
>
> I have more to say but am biting my tounge at the moment. It is a Friday
> night and I have pissed off to many people before.
>
> Jared
>
> --
> Jared & Tina Lazaron + 7yr old Daughter.
>
> 77 Eleganza II "Recherché" Winterfeldt 455, Holley ProJection, Doug
> Thorley Headers, 3in exhaust, Switch Pitch, Alcoas, ONAN 6.5 Emerald
> series, CMC
> Restoration
>
> GO SEAHAWKS!!
>
> Arlington, WA 98223
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Rotor, Bearing and Brake Options [message #255826 is a reply to message #255821] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 20:10 |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726
Registered: May 2014
Location: Arlington, WA
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Kingsley Coach wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 17:57Tks for the words of wisdom, Jared.
I have found that turned rotors tend to warp faster. If I was going through
the trouble to take the ft bearings apart to get at the rotors, I'd spend
the extra money to get new rotors.
Not words of wisdom, just the right way to do it. If his coach truly has 13,500 on it, chances are they were manufactured back in the day out of good iron.
If you are turning a rotor that has been warped already, then yes, no question it will warp again since it will have thin spots due to the warpage.
I am trying to do my coach right, everyone else can do whatever they want.
What would you do if it was your daily driver? What would you do if your family was going to be riding around in it?
I have a wife and a 7 year old daughter to consider. Doing it the cheaper way is unacceptable to me.
I am offering my own opinion.
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Rotor, Bearing and Brake Options [message #255833 is a reply to message #255826] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 20:57 |
Daniel DeLuca
Messages: 120
Registered: June 2014
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It's just a shame our suppliers are so far away. Shipments taken a week to New Jersey and I am a teacher and want to get the heavy lifting done this summer.
Is there any local suppliers for bearings?
Dan
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 18, 2014, at 9:10 PM, Jared wrote:
>
> Kingsley Coach wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 17:57
>> Tks for the words of wisdom, Jared.
>>
>> I have found that turned rotors tend to warp faster. If I was going through
>> the trouble to take the ft bearings apart to get at the rotors, I'd spend
>> the extra money to get new rotors.
>
>
> Not words of wisdom, just the right way to do it. If his coach truly has 13,500 on it, chances are they were manufactured back in the day out of good
> iron.
>
> If you are turning a rotor that has been warped already, then yes, no question it will warp again since it will have thin spots due to the warpage.
>
> I am trying to do my coach right, everyone else can do whatever they want.
>
> What would you do if it was your daily driver? What would you do if your family was going to be riding around in it?
>
> I have a wife and a 7 year old daughter to consider. Doing it the cheaper way is unacceptable to me.
>
> I am offering my own opinion.
>
> Jared
>
> --
> Jared & Tina Lazaron + 7yr old Daughter.
>
> 77 Eleganza II "Recherché" Winterfeldt 455, Holley ProJection, Doug Thorley Headers, 3in exhaust, Switch Pitch, Alcoas, ONAN 6.5 Emerald series, CMC
> Restoration
>
> GO SEAHAWKS!!
>
> Arlington, WA 98223
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Rotor, Bearing and Brake Options [message #255839 is a reply to message #255800] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 22:40 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Here is what I have learned after being with this group for 12 ys. Go to your local Oreilys or other parts store and get "Performance Friction" pads. They have proven themselves from years of experience on GMCMH's. Unless your rotors are severely scored from running the pads down to the backing plates, (in which case you will have to replace them) as someone else mentioned, put a 40 or 60 grit sand paper or emery on a DA sander or random orbital sander and scratch the living sh&t out of them. This will help the new pads "bed" (break-in) properly. Put he new pads on, new rubber brake lines, and drive it. You will have to follow proper "bedding procedure" outlined somewhere in the archives of this forum. Then feel it. If the rotors warp giving you a pulsing pedal, then replace the rotors with new. If not, you are good to go...just drive it.
As for the bearings, the more you take the front bearings apart the more you damage the inside diameter of the knuckle, so you only want to do this once. That entails taking it apart with approved puller, (which could be borrowed from any number of members here) inspect for wear, and replace or upgrade the spacer between the bearings to accomodate external greasing. Then borrow or buy the tool to drill a greasing hole in the knuckle. Install a zirk on the knuckle and reassemble. Now you can regrease the bearings every 20K miles or so without having to take it apart. This setup should last you 100K miles, perhaps never having to take it apart again. If the knuckles are oversize so that the bearing races spin in the knuckle, you will have to replace the knuckle and bearing assembly, in which case you should buy rebuilt knuckles from Dave Lenzi or convert over to the 1 ton front end.
Just what I'd do.
Larry 
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Rotor, Bearing and Brake Options [message #255841 is a reply to message #255839] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 23:05 |
Daniel DeLuca
Messages: 120
Registered: June 2014
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I really like the idea of only doing this once. Anyone have a link on how to add the grease fitting?
Dan
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 18, 2014, at 11:40 PM, Larry wrote:
>
> Here is what I have learned after being with this group for 12 ys. Go to your local Oreilys or other parts store and get "Performance Friction" pads.
> They have proven themselves from years of experience on GMCMH's. Unless your rotors are severely scored from running the pads down to the backing
> plates, (in which case you will have to replace them) as someone else mentioned, put a 40 or 60 grit sand paper or emery on a DA sander or random
> orbital sander and scratch the living sh&t out of them. This will help the new pads "bed" (break-in) properly. Put he new pads on, new rubber brake
> lines, and drive it. You will have to follow proper "bedding procedure" outlined somewhere in the archives of this forum. Then feel it. If the rotors
> warp giving you a pulsing pedal, then replace the rotors with new. If not, you are good to go...just drive it.
>
> As for the bearings, the more you take the front bearings apart the more you damage the inside diameter of the knuckle, so you only want to do this
> once. That entails taking it apart with approved puller, (which could be borrowed from any number of members here) inspect for wear, and replace or
> upgrade the spacer between the bearings to accomodate external greasing. Then borrow or buy the tool to drill a greasing hole in the knuckle.
> Install a zirk on the knuckle and reassemble. Now you can regrease the bearings every 20K miles or so without having to take it apart. This setup
> should last you 100K miles, perhaps never having to take it apart again. If the knuckles are oversize so that the bearing races spin in the knuckle,
> you will have to replace the knuckle and bearing assembly, in which case you should buy rebuilt knuckles from Dave Lenzi or convert over to the 1 ton
> front end.
>
> Just what I'd do.
> --
> Larry
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front Rotor, Bearing and Brake Options [message #255845 is a reply to message #255843] |
Sat, 19 July 2014 00:03 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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A Hamilto wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 23:29Daniel DeLuca wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 23:05I really like the idea of only doing this once. Anyone have a link on how to add the grease fitting?
Dan http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/front-bearing-drill-fixture/p33853-front-wheel-bearing-drill-fixture.html A complete explanation involves drilling the hole, installing the zerk, modifying the spacer, and when greasing the hubs in the future, following the procedure for loosening the spindle nut and moving the axle back a quarter inch or so so as not to blow out the seal.
I have spent the last 45 minutes looking for the photo tutorial that shows how to groove the spacer so the grease can get to the bearings, and can't find it. If I ever find it, I will consolidate the tutorials into one post that can be referenced in the future.
It would be worthwhile because the zerk modification and related greasing procedures means the front bearings are no longer a weak point in the design. With proper care, the front bearings with the modification can last indefinitely.
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