Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Well boys, I'm on the hook :-(
| Well boys, I'm on the hook :-( [message #255726] |
Thu, 17 July 2014 18:03  |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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15 miles west of Minneapolis, I was looking at the Oil Pressure gauge when it went down. Less than 1sec from 45lbs to 0. Lifters clattered and I shut the engine down. I pulled the filter and cooler adaptor off and checked the oil pump pressure relief valve. All is well there. When trying to start it, sounds like one cylinder is low on compression. When I pulled the filter, I let oil drain into a plastic salad bowl from the kitchen. Lucy happily gave it up. (what a WOMAN!!) Looked at the oil in the sun light. Not one single sparkle, so hope no damage to bearings. Seems like this happened to Ken H. So I'm gonna pull a valve cover when I get it home and check for a broken "T" pedistal. Hopefully it is just a lifter that popped out of the bore, or an oil gallery plug in the lifter valley that popped out. Irvington Garage, 1 1/2 mi from home is coming to pick me up with a Semi and a flat bed trailer for the 110mi ride home. Should be here by 5:30 or so. Talked with insurance and they will pick up the whole tab. Just another GMC adventure....
Larry 
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: Well boys, I'm on the hook :-( [message #255737 is a reply to message #255726] |
Thu, 17 July 2014 18:51  |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Oh, man.
Sorry to read about this one. You were one of the T-pedestal stalwarts. Very interesting to see what you have going on there, but it sure sounds like Ken's problem. Aggravating. I hope a solution is found.
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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| Re: Well boys, I'm on the hook :-( [message #255747 is a reply to message #255742] |
Thu, 17 July 2014 19:58 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Kerry Pinkerton wrote: "It does sound like Ken's problem. But I thought you had the aftermarket rocker stuff???
I like my Digipanel for just that reason. Instant audible alert when oil pressure falls below 10 psi....or when some trucker with an outlaw CB rig putting out about 10,000 watts hits transmit Shocked Shocked Shocked (that happened on the way to and from Branson in front of the same truck stop. Took 5 miles for my heart to slow down... Laughing )"
No, I think I am the one who had the aftermarket purple stuff on pedestals. I think Larry's, temporarily absent from Menominee, was stock. MTS and other vendors keep recommending the aftermarket shaft rocker setup. Can there be a reason? Funny thing is that the stock Cadillac setup often ran trouble-free for hundreds of thousands of miles. Could it be the fuel injection setup must be set richer under power to keep from seizing a valve? If so, the R&D has proved to be expensive to the fraternity.
Next question I have is which kind of valve guide is most resistant to seizing. Cast Iron, Bronze, some run in the head proper. Are there other materials? Does the head have cooling deficiencies in the 500? I see that some valve sticking problems have been noted in the 455, but this seizing might be unique to the 500.
Stainless Steel galls running on itself but I don't know metallurgically speaking which is the best combination. I fear that there isn't much to be gained in this area, but interesting nevertheless. I do know that cast iron will run in cast iron with no problem, rare or maybe almost unique among metals. (Henry Ford had cast iron pistons in his cast iron blocks in the Models T and A.)
Could be jumping the gun on this one, could be other gremlins. The real experts can chime in, if they would.
Hope the damage is cheap, Larry.
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Well boys, I'm on the hook :-( [message #255761 is a reply to message #255726] |
Thu, 17 July 2014 21:23 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
I double checked and according to the line drawing below the Caddy 500 has an external oil pump which is driven by the distributor
through a shaft.
https://tinyurl.com/q2a5b3h
I would disconnect it and see if the shaft that connects it to the dizzy is intact.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:03 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Well boys, I'm on the hook :-(
15 miles west of Minneapolis, I was looking at the Oil Pressure gauge when it went down. Less than 1sec from 45lbs to 0. Lifters
clattered and I shut
the engine down. I pulled the filter and cooler adaptor off and checked the oil pump pressure relief valve. All is well there. When
trying to start
it, sounds like one cylinder is low on compression. When I pulled the filter, I let oil drain into a plastic salad bowl from the
kitchen. Lucy happily
gave it up. (what a WOMAN!!) Looked at the oil in the sun light. Not one single sparkle, so hope no damage to bearings. Seems like
this happened to
Ken H. So I'm gonna pull a valve cover when I get it home and check for a broken "T" pedistal. Hopefully it is just a lifter that
popped out of the
bore, or an oil gallery plug in the lifter valley that popped out. Irvington Garage, 1 1/2 mi from home is coming to pick me up with
a Semi and a flat
bed trailer for the 110mi ride home. Should be here by 5:30 or so. Talked with insurance and they will pick up the whole tab. Just
another GMC
adventure....
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Well boys, I'm on the hook :-( [message #255764 is a reply to message #255726] |
Thu, 17 July 2014 21:40 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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While I know NOTHING about Caddy engines, it sure sounds like a lifter came out of it's bore. I think you're on the right track looking at the rocker arms.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Well boys, I'm on the hook :-( [message #255767 is a reply to message #255764] |
Thu, 17 July 2014 22:59 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
Cad engine oil pressure is taken at the back of the block.
So it would seem that you could have had enough pressure in the lower end .
You might want to look into getting the shaft rocker assembly.
Should you decide to do so, I can get you one from Cad Company at dealer
cost.
I have some store credit there and want touse it..
I have had the Shaft rocker set up in my 540 since1992 and transfered them
on few engines.
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 7:40 PM, Carl Stouffer wrote:
> While I know NOTHING about Caddy engines, it sure sounds like a lifter
> came out of it's bore. I think you're on the right track looking at the
> rocker
> arms.
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Well boys, I'm on the hook :-( [message #255786 is a reply to message #255726] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 11:36 |
Cadillackeeper
Messages: 464
Registered: October 2012
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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You know it is just a shame that the GMC did not get the Cad from the start.This is my first Olds and there are so many things that are plain wrong in my opinion of course compared to the Cad proper.The first thing I don't like is the distro in the back,The alternator 12 piece bracket over the valve cover on the drivers side and the giant pot metal Ac bracket over the passenger side valve cover.Someone put the 2 center exhaust outlets into the same hole?I could go on and on.It is like they just whacked it all together and never really cared what it actually was like.No offense meant to anyone who is an Olds guy but.It is what it is.
77 455 Elaganza II and 67 Animal, Built 500 Powered Eldo
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| Re: [GMCnet] Well boys, I'm on the hook :-( [message #255861 is a reply to message #255840] |
Sat, 19 July 2014 08:57 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
You probably have the info below already.
Here's a link to the Maximum Torque Specialties on line catalog:
http://www.500cid.com/On-Line%20Catalog/2012%20-%202013%20MTS%20Catalog.pdf
See page 10 for their shaft rocker arm system.
Here's a link to The Cad Company catalog shaft rocker arm systems:
http://www.cad500parts.com/catalog/page20.htm
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Cadillackeeper wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 12:10
> This is what my adjustable rockers look like.No Tee pedastle .It does sound like could be one slipped off the end.At least it will
be relatively
> easy.You wont have to dismantle the whole engine to take off the valve covers.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p46124-the-animal.html
So, did you make that valve train or buy it? If bought, from where?
--
Larry
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Well boys, I'm on the hook :-( [message #255865 is a reply to message #255726] |
Sat, 19 July 2014 10:22 |
RobG
Messages: 12
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Just picked up a set of non-adjustable rocker shafts from MTS for my caddy 500 build--the adjustable set does not fit regular valve covers. They are too tall. Lifter preload should be set, get the correct length pushrod, and forget on hydraulic set-ups. No real need for adjustables as far as I am aware.
Rob
74 GMC Painted Desert?
(under construction)
Grand Junction, CO
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| Re: Well boys, I'm on the hook :-( [message #255913 is a reply to message #255747] |
Sat, 19 July 2014 22:03 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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"" Funny thing is that the stock Cadillac setup often ran trouble-free for hundreds of thousands of miles.""
No offense but I doubt that big time. Within GM at the time it was considered a problem child almost as bad as the buick 455.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Well boys, I'm on the hook :-( [message #255943 is a reply to message #255913] |
Sun, 20 July 2014 12:30 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Bob,
I am responding to your post about the common knowledge at GM that the pedestal rocker arm setup in the Cadillac 500 was problematic, and not the hoped-for paragon of engineering.
Thanks. I just thought I read in hot rod magazines that the engines were good for hundreds of thousands of miles and due to the higher nickel content in the block, also lately claimed for the 455, that there were some with no ridge in the tops of the cylinders after 100K miles and just assumed that the pedestals were good also. I have even heard that the Cadillac heads were high in nickel content. For some reason I am doubting that, but would be so glad to hear different. So far, my Cadillac 500 has a high nickel content, for sure. It has had loads of nickels put into it, and is going to get a bunch more before we are through!
It is good to hear that those pedestals didn't have the greatest reputation. That means I can just go ahead and quit worrying about the valve guides seizing. Now we can just all bite the bullet and toss another what, $550?, into the hopper to buy a shaft rocker system, with new valve covers, or get the thick gaskets that Ken Henderson uses. If we want adjustability, it is more. In the Big Inch Cadillac book by Doc Frohmader, there was a cheaper LOOKING setup with Buick rockers on a shaft but I haven't seen it for sale.
Thanks for your help. It really makes the situation clear.
Best,
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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