Clogged exhaust [message #253364] |
Thu, 26 June 2014 17:42 |
kwharland
Messages: 246 Registered: November 2005 Location: Central Florida
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I've finally traced what I first believed to be a carb problem to a clogged exhaust system. The coach has sat for 5-6 years with only occasional starting and moving around the storage yard. It's still a little surprising as the entire exhaust system appears to be in decent shape externally but I have virtually no flow out the tailpipe. I confirmed there's no heat riser issue, it appears to be removed with the shaft holes plugged if there was even one there in the first place.
I'm puzzled as to exactly what is clogged...mufflers, exhaust pipe or tail pipe? I can't visualize how any of those would actually close up. It might help before I start tearing into it to know what's the likely culprit.
1978 Eleganza II
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Re: Clogged exhaust [message #253367 is a reply to message #253364] |
Thu, 26 June 2014 17:48 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629 Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Sir: I was told at muffler shop that the factory Y pipe is spiral rolled when made and can unwind in the Y and restrict flow. Probably need a coathanger or a camera on a stick to check it tho. Maybe use a laser thermometer and try to locate the hot spot.
kwharland wrote on Thu, 26 June 2014 18:42I've finally traced what I first believed to be a carb problem to a clogged exhaust system. The coach has sat for 5-6 years with only occasional starting and moving around the storage yard. It's still a little surprising as the entire exhaust system appears to be in decent shape externally but I have virtually no flow out the tailpipe. I confirmed there's no heat riser issue, it appears to be removed with the shaft holes plugged if there was even one there in the first place.
I'm puzzled as to exactly what is clogged...mufflers, exhaust pipe or tail pipe? I can't visualize how any of those would actually close up. It might help before I start tearing into it to know what's the likely culprit.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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Re: [GMCnet] Clogged exhaust [message #253374 is a reply to message #253371] |
Thu, 26 June 2014 18:54 |
Otterwan
Messages: 946 Registered: July 2013 Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
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The baffles in the muffler might have rusted and collapsed. If it isn't too difficult (and it often is) you might try disconnecting the head pipe from the muffler and see how it runs. Briefly. It will be very, very loud.
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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Re: Clogged exhaust [message #253376 is a reply to message #253367] |
Thu, 26 June 2014 19:20 |
kwharland
Messages: 246 Registered: November 2005 Location: Central Florida
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C Boyd wrote on Thu, 26 June 2014 18:48Sir: I was told at muffler shop that the factory Y pipe is spiral rolled when made and can unwind in the Y and restrict flow. Probably need a coathanger or a camera on a stick to check it tho. Maybe use a laser thermometer and try to locate the hot spot.
That's interesting about the 'Y' pipe and using my thermometer is a nice idea, thanks!
A Hamilto wrote on Thu, 26 June 2014 19:22Mud Daubers.
I had considered that last week then forgot to investigate further. Tomorrow!
1978 Eleganza II
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Re: Clogged exhaust [message #253413 is a reply to message #253364] |
Thu, 26 June 2014 23:54 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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kwharland wrote on Thu, 26 June 2014 16:42I've finally traced what I first believed to be a carb problem to a clogged exhaust system. The coach has sat for 5-6 years with only occasional starting and moving around the storage yard. It's still a little surprising as the entire exhaust system appears to be in decent shape externally but I have virtually no flow out the tailpipe. I confirmed there's no heat riser issue, it appears to be removed with the shaft holes plugged if there was even one there in the first place.
I'm puzzled as to exactly what is clogged...mufflers, exhaust pipe or tail pipe? I can't visualize how any of those would actually close up. It might help before I start tearing into it to know what's the likely culprit.
GMC's never had a heat riser so that can't be it. I can see how a clog can happen in the exhaust, but if it really is clogged the engine will have trouble even idling if it will run at all.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: [GMCnet] Clogged exhaust [message #253417 is a reply to message #253378] |
Fri, 27 June 2014 00:52 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411 Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Chuck Boyd has the easy answer-use the pyrometer to find the restriction-where there will be a sharp temperature difference, then take the system apart there if you can. Got a sawzall and a welder?
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254129 is a reply to message #253364] |
Wed, 02 July 2014 13:18 |
kwharland
Messages: 246 Registered: November 2005 Location: Central Florida
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I've got both off and now searching for replacements. Considering the two Walker models, the cheaper 18425 Sound FX model (probably louder) and the 4 times more expensive 22380 in stainless. The cheaper one is noted as 'perforated tube' internal construction and the other a more nebulous 'turbo style'.
And now that they're both out, I see what I presume is an aluminum sheet protecting the underside of the coach is bulging down and all crinkled. It doesn't push back up into place easily, it feels like there's something like insulation or padding between it and the floor. Is this condition common? Should I worry about correcting it?
Perhaps one of these links will permit you to see it.
"https://www.flickr.com/photos/59523128@N04/14559744855"
"https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2912/14559744855_bcf91c0cc6_s.jpg"
1978 Eleganza II
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Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254135 is a reply to message #253364] |
Wed, 02 July 2014 14:08 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324 Registered: October 2010 Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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I put two of the 18425's into my coach. and I can't complain now. sound is not a problem. I will not vouch for how long these mufflers will last, but for the price, I really don't care.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WLK-18425
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254137 is a reply to message #254129] |
Wed, 02 July 2014 14:11 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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kwharland wrote on Wed, 02 July 2014 12:18I've got both off and now searching for replacements. Considering the two Walker models, the cheaper 18425 Sound FX model (probably louder) and the 4 times more expensive 22380 in stainless. The cheaper one is noted as 'perforated tube' internal construction and the other a more nebulous 'turbo style'.
And now that they're both out, I see what I presume is an aluminum sheet protecting the underside of the coach is bulging down and all crinkled. It doesn't push back up into place easily, it feels like there's something like insulation or padding between it and the floor. Is this condition common? Should I worry about correcting it?
Perhaps one of these links will permit you to see it.
"https://www.flickr.com/photos/59523128@N04/14559744855"
"https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2912/14559744855_bcf91c0cc6_s.jpg"
I never did read what was clogging the exhaust--was it indeed the mufflers? As far as the insulation goes, that is pretty typical. I left mine as is but depending how far it has dropped, I have seen others pull it up and support it with a couple of wire/cables stretched beneath the insulation. I can't say for sure but if you run some screws into the plywood above, those screws could get pretty hot.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254142 is a reply to message #254129] |
Wed, 02 July 2014 14:35 |
roy1
Messages: 2126 Registered: July 2004 Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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My choice of mufflers is the Walker low restriction turbo mufflers they were about $55 each at summit. I don't remember the number but they can be identified by the dimple on each end that gives room for the internal pipe elbows they are 3 pass mufflers.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254144 is a reply to message #254137] |
Wed, 02 July 2014 14:48 |
kwharland
Messages: 246 Registered: November 2005 Location: Central Florida
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Bob de Kruyff wrote on Wed, 02 July 2014 15:11
I never did read what was clogging the exhaust--was it indeed the mufflers? As far as the insulation goes, that is pretty typical. I left mine as is but depending how far it has dropped, I have seen others pull it up and support it with a couple of wire/cables stretched beneath the insulation. I can't say for sure but if you run some screws into the plywood above, those screws could get pretty hot.
The funny thing is I agreed with your earlier statement about if it's clogged that bad, it would have trouble idling. Well, I let it sit another two weeks and now it wouldn't idle! I did scope out the tail pipe with a fish tape beforehand and got around 14' up there with no obstructions. So after several failed attempts to get it to run at all, I did crawl underneath and used my manual temp sensor (palms), I found heat back to the entrance of the mufflers and little to no heat beyond them. Far from scientific and fully understanding that even under normal circumstances there's still going to be a big drop in temperature across the muffler, I still concluded they must be the culprits. Tapping on them with a hammer sounded like they were solid, no chambers or hollow areas.
I will open them up later and share what I find but I did see that they were original GM mufflers with possibly a 1984 date code so being stuffed up isn't a stretch to imagine.
Ordered two Walker 18425 mufflers from Amazon and will stick them on after the 4th.
1978 Eleganza II
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Re: [GMCnet] Clogged exhaust [message #254146 is a reply to message #254144] |
Wed, 02 July 2014 16:16 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501 Registered: October 2011 Location: La Grange, Wyoming
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I also put two new 18425 mufflers from Summit and can say it is quieter
than before as my mufflers were shot.
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Ken Harland wrote:
> Bob de Kruyff wrote on Wed, 02 July 2014 15:11
>> I never did read what was clogging the exhaust--was it indeed the
> mufflers? As far as the insulation goes, that is pretty typical. I left
> mine as
>> is but depending how far it has dropped, I have seen others pull it up
> and support it with a couple of wire/cables stretched beneath the
> insulation.
>> I can't say for sure but if you run some screws into the plywood above,
> those screws could get pretty hot.
>
>
> The funny thing is I agreed with your earlier statement about if it's
> clogged that bad, it would have trouble idling. Well, I let it sit another
> two
> weeks and now it wouldn't idle! I did scope out the tail pipe with a fish
> tape beforehand and got around 14' up there with no obstructions. So after
> several failed attempts to get it to run at all, I did crawl underneath
> and used my manual temp sensor (palms), I found heat back to the entrance of
> the mufflers and little to no heat beyond them. Far from scientific and
> fully understanding that even under normal circumstances there's still going
> to be a big drop in temperature across the muffler, I still concluded they
> must be the culprits. Tapping on them with a hammer sounded like they were
> solid, no chambers or hollow areas.
>
> I will open them up later and share what I find but I did see that they
> were original GM mufflers with possibly a 1984 date code so being stuffed up
> isn't a stretch to imagine.
>
> Ordered two Walker 18425 mufflers from Amazon and will stick them on after
> the 4th.
>
> --
> 1978 Eleganza II
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254307 is a reply to message #253364] |
Thu, 03 July 2014 19:55 |
kwharland
Messages: 246 Registered: November 2005 Location: Central Florida
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I cut open one muffler and while it became apparent it needed to be replaced, what I didn't find was any blockage whatsoever. Not only that, I can't see any way this type of muffler would ever be restricted. That being said, I'm still going to cut the other one open because something's not right.
The muffler construction is interesting...it's a double layer construction with a thin layer of fiberglass between the inner and out shells. But inside is the typical baffling and perforated pipes I've seen most often over the years.
As you can see from the pictures, the inner layer in this one has buckled and the rusted through at the buckle. I can only guess that repeated expansion/contraction produced such damage. There was no buckling in the outer shell nor leaks or holes.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59523128@N04/14545742586
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59523128@N04/14568834915
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59523128@N04/14382201318
1978 Eleganza II
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Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254308 is a reply to message #254307] |
Thu, 03 July 2014 21:56 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411 Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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If you have a strong shop vacuum with a 2 inch hose, put it on the exhaust pipe before you install the mufflers and see if the flow changes. There should not be any restriction for the vacuum.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254651 is a reply to message #254308] |
Mon, 07 July 2014 21:00 |
kwharland
Messages: 246 Registered: November 2005 Location: Central Florida
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Bullitthead wrote on Thu, 03 July 2014 22:56If you have a strong shop vacuum with a 2 inch hose, put it on the exhaust pipe before you install the mufflers and see if the flow changes. There should not be any restriction for the vacuum. Sorry but I don't think that's a valid method. Any increase in length will result in a drop in flow and vacuum is a very weak method of testing flow. Have you ever tried to breathe through a garden hose? Can't be done.
1978 Eleganza II
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Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254669 is a reply to message #254651] |
Tue, 08 July 2014 01:04 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411 Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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This is a VERY valid method of testing for restriction and if you don't know how to do it, don't malign it's credibility to the rest of the crowd. We are talking about airflow here, not vacuum or pressure.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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