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Clogged exhaust [message #253364] Thu, 26 June 2014 17:42 Go to next message
kwharland is currently offline  kwharland   United States
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I've finally traced what I first believed to be a carb problem to a clogged exhaust system. The coach has sat for 5-6 years with only occasional starting and moving around the storage yard. It's still a little surprising as the entire exhaust system appears to be in decent shape externally but I have virtually no flow out the tailpipe. I confirmed there's no heat riser issue, it appears to be removed with the shaft holes plugged if there was even one there in the first place.

I'm puzzled as to exactly what is clogged...mufflers, exhaust pipe or tail pipe? I can't visualize how any of those would actually close up. It might help before I start tearing into it to know what's the likely culprit.


1978 Eleganza II
Re: Clogged exhaust [message #253367 is a reply to message #253364] Thu, 26 June 2014 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
C Boyd is currently offline  C Boyd   United States
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Sir: I was told at muffler shop that the factory Y pipe is spiral rolled when made and can unwind in the Y and restrict flow. Probably need a coathanger or a camera on a stick to check it tho. Maybe use a laser thermometer and try to locate the hot spot.



kwharland wrote on Thu, 26 June 2014 18:42
I've finally traced what I first believed to be a carb problem to a clogged exhaust system. The coach has sat for 5-6 years with only occasional starting and moving around the storage yard. It's still a little surprising as the entire exhaust system appears to be in decent shape externally but I have virtually no flow out the tailpipe. I confirmed there's no heat riser issue, it appears to be removed with the shaft holes plugged if there was even one there in the first place.

I'm puzzled as to exactly what is clogged...mufflers, exhaust pipe or tail pipe? I can't visualize how any of those would actually close up. It might help before I start tearing into it to know what's the likely culprit.



C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
Re: Clogged exhaust [message #253370 is a reply to message #253364] Thu, 26 June 2014 18:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
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kwharland wrote on Thu, 26 June 2014 17:42
I've finally traced what I first believed to be a carb problem to a clogged exhaust system. The coach has sat for 5-6 years with only occasional starting and moving around the storage yard. It's still a little surprising as the entire exhaust system appears to be in decent shape externally but I have virtually no flow out the tailpipe. I confirmed there's no heat riser issue, it appears to be removed with the shaft holes plugged if there was even one there in the first place.

I'm puzzled as to exactly what is clogged...mufflers, exhaust pipe or tail pipe? I can't visualize how any of those would actually close up. It might help before I start tearing into it to know what's the likely culprit.
Mud Daubers.
Re: [GMCnet] Clogged exhaust [message #253371 is a reply to message #253364] Thu, 26 June 2014 18:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
emerystora is currently offline  emerystora   United States
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When Richard Hodges and I were working on a GMC that he had purchased that had set for many years, we had to work on the carb and fuel pump and then finally got it started. When we revved it up about a galvanized pail full of rust blew out of the tailpipe. We were amazed at how much rust came out. We figured that it was the inside of the pipes and the mufflers rusting up from moisture over the years. That could have easily clogged up the system but somehow it blew out and bounced from a garage wall and flew all over the floor.

Emery Stora

On Jun 26, 2014, at 4:42 PM, Ken Harland wrote:

> I've finally traced what I first believed to be a carb problem to a clogged exhaust system. The coach has sat for 5-6 years with only occasional
> starting and moving around the storage yard. It's still a little surprising as the entire exhaust system appears to be in decent shape externally but
> I have virtually no flow out the tailpipe. I confirmed there's no heat riser issue, it appears to be removed with the shaft holes plugged if there
> was even one there in the first place.
>
> I'm puzzled as to exactly what is clogged...mufflers, exhaust pipe or tail pipe? I can't visualize how any of those would actually close up. It might
> help before I start tearing into it to know what's the likely culprit.
> --
> 1978 Eleganza II
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Re: [GMCnet] Clogged exhaust [message #253374 is a reply to message #253371] Thu, 26 June 2014 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Otterwan   United States
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The baffles in the muffler might have rusted and collapsed. If it isn't too difficult (and it often is) you might try disconnecting the head pipe from the muffler and see how it runs. Briefly. It will be very, very loud.

1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
Re: Clogged exhaust [message #253376 is a reply to message #253367] Thu, 26 June 2014 19:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kwharland is currently offline  kwharland   United States
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C Boyd wrote on Thu, 26 June 2014 18:48
Sir: I was told at muffler shop that the factory Y pipe is spiral rolled when made and can unwind in the Y and restrict flow. Probably need a coathanger or a camera on a stick to check it tho. Maybe use a laser thermometer and try to locate the hot spot.

That's interesting about the 'Y' pipe and using my thermometer is a nice idea, thanks!

A Hamilto wrote on Thu, 26 June 2014 19:22
Mud Daubers.

I had considered that last week then forgot to investigate further. Tomorrow!



1978 Eleganza II
Re: [GMCnet] Clogged exhaust [message #253378 is a reply to message #253376] Thu, 26 June 2014 19:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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Critters.
Jim Hupy
On Jun 26, 2014 5:20 PM, "Ken Harland" wrote:

> C Boyd wrote on Thu, 26 June 2014 18:48
>> Sir: I was told at muffler shop that the factory Y pipe is spiral rolled
> when made and can unwind in the Y and restrict flow. Probably need a
>> coathanger or a camera on a stick to check it tho. Maybe use a laser
> thermometer and try to locate the hot spot.
>
> That's interesting about the 'Y' pipe and using my thermometer is a nice
> idea, thanks!
>
> A Hamilto wrote on Thu, 26 June 2014 19:22
>> Mud Daubers.
>
> I had considered that last week then forgot to investigate further.
> Tomorrow!
>
>
> --
> 1978 Eleganza II
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Re: Clogged exhaust [message #253413 is a reply to message #253364] Thu, 26 June 2014 23:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob de Kruyff   United States
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kwharland wrote on Thu, 26 June 2014 16:42
I've finally traced what I first believed to be a carb problem to a clogged exhaust system. The coach has sat for 5-6 years with only occasional starting and moving around the storage yard. It's still a little surprising as the entire exhaust system appears to be in decent shape externally but I have virtually no flow out the tailpipe. I confirmed there's no heat riser issue, it appears to be removed with the shaft holes plugged if there was even one there in the first place.

I'm puzzled as to exactly what is clogged...mufflers, exhaust pipe or tail pipe? I can't visualize how any of those would actually close up. It might help before I start tearing into it to know what's the likely culprit.

GMC's never had a heat riser so that can't be it. I can see how a clog can happen in the exhaust, but if it really is clogged the engine will have trouble even idling if it will run at all.


Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
Re: [GMCnet] Clogged exhaust [message #253417 is a reply to message #253378] Fri, 27 June 2014 00:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bullitthead is currently offline  Bullitthead   United States
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Chuck Boyd has the easy answer-use the pyrometer to find the restriction-where there will be a sharp temperature difference, then take the system apart there if you can. Got a sawzall and a welder?

Terry Kelpien ASE Master Technician 73 Glacier 260 Smithfield, Va.
Re: Clogged exhaust [message #253423 is a reply to message #253364] Fri, 27 June 2014 08:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim Wagner is currently offline  Jim Wagner   United States
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Does it smell like chestnuts roasting over an open fire? Animals have a habit of storing their winter food in the worst places I put a screen over the exhaust tip when I am not using our GMC, We have found acorns under the air cleaner also. A lazar heat checker is your friend
Jim Wagner
76 GMC500
71 Vega355
69 Vette383
Brook Park, oh


I'm puzzled as to exactly what is clogged...mufflers, exhaust pipe or tail pipe? I can't visualize how any of those would actually close up. It might help before I start tearing into it to know what's the likely culprit.
Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254129 is a reply to message #253364] Wed, 02 July 2014 13:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kwharland is currently offline  kwharland   United States
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I've got both off and now searching for replacements. Considering the two Walker models, the cheaper 18425 Sound FX model (probably louder) and the 4 times more expensive 22380 in stainless. The cheaper one is noted as 'perforated tube' internal construction and the other a more nebulous 'turbo style'.

And now that they're both out, I see what I presume is an aluminum sheet protecting the underside of the coach is bulging down and all crinkled. It doesn't push back up into place easily, it feels like there's something like insulation or padding between it and the floor. Is this condition common? Should I worry about correcting it?

Perhaps one of these links will permit you to see it.

"https://www.flickr.com/photos/59523128@N04/14559744855"
"https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2912/14559744855_bcf91c0cc6_s.jpg"


1978 Eleganza II
Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254135 is a reply to message #253364] Wed, 02 July 2014 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lqqkatjon is currently offline  lqqkatjon   United States
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I put two of the 18425's into my coach. and I can't complain now. sound is not a problem. I will not vouch for how long these mufflers will last, but for the price, I really don't care.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WLK-18425



Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254137 is a reply to message #254129] Wed, 02 July 2014 14:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob de Kruyff   United States
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kwharland wrote on Wed, 02 July 2014 12:18
I've got both off and now searching for replacements. Considering the two Walker models, the cheaper 18425 Sound FX model (probably louder) and the 4 times more expensive 22380 in stainless. The cheaper one is noted as 'perforated tube' internal construction and the other a more nebulous 'turbo style'.

And now that they're both out, I see what I presume is an aluminum sheet protecting the underside of the coach is bulging down and all crinkled. It doesn't push back up into place easily, it feels like there's something like insulation or padding between it and the floor. Is this condition common? Should I worry about correcting it?

Perhaps one of these links will permit you to see it.

"https://www.flickr.com/photos/59523128@N04/14559744855"
"https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2912/14559744855_bcf91c0cc6_s.jpg"

I never did read what was clogging the exhaust--was it indeed the mufflers? As far as the insulation goes, that is pretty typical. I left mine as is but depending how far it has dropped, I have seen others pull it up and support it with a couple of wire/cables stretched beneath the insulation. I can't say for sure but if you run some screws into the plywood above, those screws could get pretty hot.


Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254142 is a reply to message #254129] Wed, 02 July 2014 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
roy1 is currently offline  roy1   United States
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My choice of mufflers is the Walker low restriction turbo mufflers they were about $55 each at summit. I don't remember the number but they can be identified by the dimple on each end that gives room for the internal pipe elbows they are 3 pass mufflers.

Roy Keen Minden,NV 76 X Glenbrook
Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254144 is a reply to message #254137] Wed, 02 July 2014 14:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kwharland is currently offline  kwharland   United States
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Bob de Kruyff wrote on Wed, 02 July 2014 15:11

I never did read what was clogging the exhaust--was it indeed the mufflers? As far as the insulation goes, that is pretty typical. I left mine as is but depending how far it has dropped, I have seen others pull it up and support it with a couple of wire/cables stretched beneath the insulation. I can't say for sure but if you run some screws into the plywood above, those screws could get pretty hot.


The funny thing is I agreed with your earlier statement about if it's clogged that bad, it would have trouble idling. Well, I let it sit another two weeks and now it wouldn't idle! I did scope out the tail pipe with a fish tape beforehand and got around 14' up there with no obstructions. So after several failed attempts to get it to run at all, I did crawl underneath and used my manual temp sensor (palms), I found heat back to the entrance of the mufflers and little to no heat beyond them. Far from scientific and fully understanding that even under normal circumstances there's still going to be a big drop in temperature across the muffler, I still concluded they must be the culprits. Tapping on them with a hammer sounded like they were solid, no chambers or hollow areas.

I will open them up later and share what I find but I did see that they were original GM mufflers with possibly a 1984 date code so being stuffed up isn't a stretch to imagine.

Ordered two Walker 18425 mufflers from Amazon and will stick them on after the 4th.


1978 Eleganza II
Re: [GMCnet] Clogged exhaust [message #254146 is a reply to message #254144] Wed, 02 July 2014 16:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bruce Hart is currently offline  Bruce Hart   United States
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I also put two new 18425 mufflers from Summit and can say it is quieter
than before as my mufflers were shot.


On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Ken Harland wrote:

> Bob de Kruyff wrote on Wed, 02 July 2014 15:11
>> I never did read what was clogging the exhaust--was it indeed the
> mufflers? As far as the insulation goes, that is pretty typical. I left
> mine as
>> is but depending how far it has dropped, I have seen others pull it up
> and support it with a couple of wire/cables stretched beneath the
> insulation.
>> I can't say for sure but if you run some screws into the plywood above,
> those screws could get pretty hot.
>
>
> The funny thing is I agreed with your earlier statement about if it's
> clogged that bad, it would have trouble idling. Well, I let it sit another
> two
> weeks and now it wouldn't idle! I did scope out the tail pipe with a fish
> tape beforehand and got around 14' up there with no obstructions. So after
> several failed attempts to get it to run at all, I did crawl underneath
> and used my manual temp sensor (palms), I found heat back to the entrance of
> the mufflers and little to no heat beyond them. Far from scientific and
> fully understanding that even under normal circumstances there's still going
> to be a big drop in temperature across the muffler, I still concluded they
> must be the culprits. Tapping on them with a hammer sounded like they were
> solid, no chambers or hollow areas.
>
> I will open them up later and share what I find but I did see that they
> were original GM mufflers with possibly a 1984 date code so being stuffed up
> isn't a stretch to imagine.
>
> Ordered two Walker 18425 mufflers from Amazon and will stick them on after
> the 4th.
>
> --
> 1978 Eleganza II
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>



--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart 1976 Palm Beach 1977 28' Kingsley La Grange, Wyoming
Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254307 is a reply to message #253364] Thu, 03 July 2014 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kwharland is currently offline  kwharland   United States
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I cut open one muffler and while it became apparent it needed to be replaced, what I didn't find was any blockage whatsoever. Not only that, I can't see any way this type of muffler would ever be restricted. That being said, I'm still going to cut the other one open because something's not right.

The muffler construction is interesting...it's a double layer construction with a thin layer of fiberglass between the inner and out shells. But inside is the typical baffling and perforated pipes I've seen most often over the years.

As you can see from the pictures, the inner layer in this one has buckled and the rusted through at the buckle. I can only guess that repeated expansion/contraction produced such damage. There was no buckling in the outer shell nor leaks or holes.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/59523128@N04/14545742586
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59523128@N04/14568834915
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59523128@N04/14382201318


1978 Eleganza II
Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254308 is a reply to message #254307] Thu, 03 July 2014 21:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bullitthead is currently offline  Bullitthead   United States
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If you have a strong shop vacuum with a 2 inch hose, put it on the exhaust pipe before you install the mufflers and see if the flow changes. There should not be any restriction for the vacuum.

Terry Kelpien ASE Master Technician 73 Glacier 260 Smithfield, Va.
Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254651 is a reply to message #254308] Mon, 07 July 2014 21:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kwharland is currently offline  kwharland   United States
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Bullitthead wrote on Thu, 03 July 2014 22:56
If you have a strong shop vacuum with a 2 inch hose, put it on the exhaust pipe before you install the mufflers and see if the flow changes. There should not be any restriction for the vacuum.
Sorry but I don't think that's a valid method. Any increase in length will result in a drop in flow and vacuum is a very weak method of testing flow. Have you ever tried to breathe through a garden hose? Can't be done.


1978 Eleganza II
Re: Clogged exhaust [message #254669 is a reply to message #254651] Tue, 08 July 2014 01:04 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Bullitthead is currently offline  Bullitthead   United States
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This is a VERY valid method of testing for restriction and if you don't know how to do it, don't malign it's credibility to the rest of the crowd. We are talking about airflow here, not vacuum or pressure.

Terry Kelpien ASE Master Technician 73 Glacier 260 Smithfield, Va.
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