Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Wicked Mistress update
Wicked Mistress update [message #251165] |
Sun, 01 June 2014 13:03 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769 Registered: February 2013 Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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These updates serve two purposes: for the amusement of the veteran mechanics and GMC'ers and as insight for the newbies contemplating repairs.
When we last left our naive intrepid mechanic, he was replacing the 40 yr old brake lines that started leaking after they were wiped off...a side detour in the quest to fix a leaking fuel line that turned into a fuel tank refurbish palooza. All he had left was the rear two lines...saving the best for last.
Never in my 50 years have I battled rusty bolts as formidable as these.
The flare nut fitting on the passenger side line, at the rear T, stripped out promptly, even with the all too clever brake line vice grip. That would have to dealt with on the bench once the line came out. The two clamps holding the line to the frame were at just such a weird angle that I couldn't get a good socket on it, and stripped with every wrench I had. So I went after the brackets on the frame...also frozen and locked up. I was beginning to think they were reverse threaded, and had painful flashbacks to the Triumph Spitfire incident...6 months of hell that ended only when I found someone crazier than I was to take that heap home. So after wasting most of a perfectly good Saturday with precious little to show for it, I soaked everything with penetrating oil and gave it a break. Finally ended up having to crack the nuts to get the brackets out. All of the brake hard lines are now new, with polyarmour hard lines held in place with stainless fasteners - you are welcome future owner.. The hard lines were not too difficult to bend, but after wrestling with getting the old stuff out, I can definitely see value in the pre-bent stainless set JimK sells.
The final tally was about $150 in materials - rolls of 1/4" and 3/16" polyarmour, fittings, and 5 sticks of straight polyarmour. But I spent a lot of time bending and flaring line - sometimes repeatedly as the flaring tool was a hit or miss proposition.
Now, finally, the fuel tanks can go in! Opted to use polyarmour on the top of the tank with the latest in high-speed, low-drag, low vapor, unobtanium laced synthetic reinforced flexible lines, as seen on tv, for the balance (Gate$ Barricade FI hose). Shoot, this line is so good, I bet it lasts TEN years... . I considered going all hard lines, but my adventures with the flaring tool on the brake lines convinced me that this was not a good idea for my level of skill.
After 4 hours of struggling and at least twice as many newly learned cursewords, the rear tank is in! This is a job best done with a helping hand and an abundance of clearance under the coach - of course I had neither. Using two ratcheting straps was a help, but it is still a bear to wrestle into place.
Don't know if it was a PO thing, it looks like it was, there was a hard gas line to the fridge that had to be put in after the last time the main tank was dropped. I do not think the factory would put an immovable gas line in the way of an item designed to be removed. This turned out to be what made the job take so long. The line was run under the lip of the gas tank at the rear, and would get caught on top of the tank when installing, causing the whole thing not to fit. It was virtually impossible to see with the tank in position to lift. The fix was to slide the driver side rear corner in first, and then slide the tank over and jack up the rear. Easier said than done.
It did not help that while I could use a creeper to get to the front, the rear clearance was barely enough to belly shimmy up to the rear of the tank. Just getting the adjustments front to rear was a workout. Now I know why hard fuel line advocates are so inspired.
Daylight was fading so I left the aux tank for another day.
Lessons learned:
If you can choose where to start your fuel tank removal - pick a nice level piece of polished concrete. A driveway will do, but the rough surface makes minor positioning the jack, to get the tank just so when lifting, more of a challenge.
If you can bribe a friend to help with the install, do so. There is nothing to be gained by trying to install solo. Oh, they will drop out easy enough, but I forgot my assistant was gravity.
Make sure you have enough clearance under the coach to use a creeper to get to either side of the tanks.
keep the laptop handy to consult the archives when you hit a speedbump.
YMMV
Now I just need to finish the aux tank, bleed the brakes and install the upper PS bracket & hopefully it will be ready to roll...WooHoo.
Beach trip in August, at this rate its going to be close...
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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Re: Wicked Mistress update [message #251174 is a reply to message #251165] |
Sun, 01 June 2014 13:45 |
roy1
Messages: 2126 Registered: July 2004 Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Joe Weir wrote on Sun, 01 June 2014 11:03These updates serve two purposes: for the amusement of the veteran mechanics and GMC'ers and as insight for the newbies contemplating repairs.
When we last left our naive intrepid mechanic, he was replacing the 40 yr old brake lines that started leaking after they were wiped off...a side detour in the quest to fix a leaking fuel line that turned into a fuel tank refurbish palooza. All he had left was the rear two lines...saving the best for last.
Never in my 50 years have I battled rusty bolts as formidable as these.
The flare nut fitting on the passenger side line, at the rear T, stripped out promptly, even with the all too clever brake line vice grip. That would have to dealt with on the bench once the line came out. The two clamps holding the line to the frame were at just such a weird angle that I couldn't get a good socket on it, and stripped with every wrench I had. So I went after the brackets on the frame...also frozen and locked up. I was beginning to think they were reverse threaded, and had painful flashbacks to the Triumph Spitfire incident...6 months of hell that ended only when I found someone crazier than I was to take that heap home. So after wasting most of a perfectly good Saturday with precious little to show for it, I soaked everything with penetrating oil and gave it a break. Finally ended up having to crack the nuts to get the brackets out. All of the brake hard lines are now new, with polyarmour hard lines held in place with stainless fasteners - you are welcome future owner.. The hard lines were not too difficult to bend, but after wrestling with getting the old stuff out, I can definitely see value in the pre-bent stainless set JimK sells.
The final tally was about $150 in materials - rolls of 1/4" and 3/16" polyarmour, fittings, and 5 sticks of straight polyarmour. But I spent a lot of time bending and flaring line - sometimes repeatedly as the flaring tool was a hit or miss proposition.
Now, finally, the fuel tanks can go in! Opted to use polyarmour on the top of the tank with the latest in high-speed, low-drag, low vapor, unobtanium laced synthetic reinforced flexible lines, as seen on tv, for the balance (Gate$ Barricade FI hose). Shoot, this line is so good, I bet it lasts TEN years... . I considered going all hard lines, but my adventures with the flaring tool on the brake lines convinced me that this was not a good idea for my level of skill.
After 4 hours of struggling and at least twice as many newly learned cursewords, the rear tank is in! This is a job best done with a helping hand and an abundance of clearance under the coach - of course I had neither. Using two ratcheting straps was a help, but it is still a bear to wrestle into place.
Don't know if it was a PO thing, it looks like it was, there was a hard gas line to the fridge that had to be put in after the last time the main tank was dropped. I do not think the factory would put an immovable gas line in the way of an item designed to be removed. This turned out to be what made the job take so long. The line was run under the lip of the gas tank at the rear, and would get caught on top of the tank when installing, causing the whole thing not to fit. It was virtually impossible to see with the tank in position to lift. The fix was to slide the driver side rear corner in first, and then slide the tank over and jack up the rear. Easier said than done.
It did not help that while I could use a creeper to get to the front, the rear clearance was barely enough to belly shimmy up to the rear of the tank. Just getting the adjustments front to rear was a workout. Now I know why hard fuel line advocates are so inspired.
Daylight was fading so I left the aux tank for another day.
Lessons learned:
If you can choose where to start your fuel tank removal - pick a nice level piece of polished concrete. A driveway will do, but the rough surface makes minor positioning the jack, to get the tank just so when lifting, more of a challenge.
If you can bribe a friend to help with the install, do so. There is nothing to be gained by trying to install solo. Oh, they will drop out easy enough, but I forgot my assistant was gravity.
Make sure you have enough clearance under the coach to use a creeper to get to either side of the tanks.
keep the laptop handy to consult the archives when you hit a speedbump.
YMMV
Now I just need to finish the aux tank, bleed the brakes and install the upper PS bracket & hopefully it will be ready to roll...WooHoo.
Beach trip in August, at this rate its going to be close...
If you did all that in one day I would say you are a superman.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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Re: [GMCnet] Wicked Mistress update [message #251186 is a reply to message #251165] |
Sun, 01 June 2014 16:03 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691 Registered: March 2009 Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Senior Member |
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OMG, Joe....great story !
Mike in NS
On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 3:03 PM, Joe Weir wrote:
> These updates serve two purposes: for the amusement of the veteran
> mechanics and GMC'ers and as insight for the newbies contemplating repairs.
>
> When we last left our naive intrepid mechanic, he was replacing the 40 yr
> old brake lines that started leaking after they were wiped off...a side
> detour in the quest to fix a leaking fuel line that turned into a fuel
> tank refurbish palooza. All he had left was the rear two lines...saving
> the
> best for last.
>
> Never in my 50 years have I battled rusty bolts as formidable as these.
>
> The flare nut fitting on the passenger side line, at the rear T, stripped
> out promptly, even with the all too clever brake line vice grip. That would
> have to dealt with on the bench once the line came out. The two clamps
> holding the line to the frame were at just such a weird angle that I
> couldn't
> get a good socket on it, and stripped with every wrench I had. So I went
> after the brackets on the frame...also frozen and locked up. I was
> beginning to think they were reverse threaded, and had painful flashbacks
> to the Triumph Spitfire incident...6 months of hell that ended only when I
> found someone crazier than I was to take that heap home. So after wasting
> most of a perfectly good Saturday with precious little to show for it, I
> soaked everything with penetrating oil and gave it a break. Finally ended
> up having to crack the nuts to get the brackets out. All of the brake hard
> lines are now new, with polyarmour hard lines held in place with stainless
> fasteners - you are welcome future owner.. The hard lines were not too
> difficult to bend, but after wrestling with getting the old stuff out, I
> can definitely see value in the pre-bent stainless set JimK sells.
>
> The final tally was about $150 in materials - rolls of 1/4" and 3/16"
> polyarmour, fittings, and 5 sticks of straight polyarmour. But I spent a
> lot of
> time bending and flaring line - sometimes repeatedly as the flaring tool
> was a hit or miss proposition.
>
> Now, finally, the fuel tanks can go in! Opted to use polyarmour on the
> top of the tank with the latest in high-speed, low-drag, low vapor,
> unobtanium
> laced synthetic reinforced flexible lines, as seen on tv, for the balance
> (Gate$ Barricade FI hose). Shoot, this line is so good, I bet it lasts TEN
> years... :d. I considered going all hard lines, but my adventures with
> the flaring tool on the brake lines convinced me that this was not a good
> idea
> for my level of skill.
>
> After 4 hours of struggling and at least twice as many newly learned
> cursewords, the rear tank is in! This is a job best done with a helping
> hand
> and an abundance of clearance under the coach - of course I had neither.
> Using two ratcheting straps was a help, but it is still a bear to wrestle
> into place.
>
> Don't know if it was a PO thing, it looks like it was, there was a hard
> gas line to the fridge that had to be put in after the last time the main
> tank
> was dropped. I do not think the factory would put an immovable gas line
> in the way of an item designed to be removed. This turned out to be what
> made the job take so long. The line was run under the lip of the gas tank
> at the rear, and would get caught on top of the tank when installing,
> causing the whole thing not to fit. It was virtually impossible to see
> with the tank in position to lift. The fix was to slide the driver side
> rear
> corner in first, and then slide the tank over and jack up the rear.
> Easier said than done.
>
> It did not help that while I could use a creeper to get to the front, the
> rear clearance was barely enough to belly shimmy up to the rear of the tank.
> Just getting the adjustments front to rear was a workout. Now I know why
> hard fuel line advocates are so inspired.
>
> Daylight was fading so I left the aux tank for another day.
>
> Lessons learned:
> If you can choose where to start your fuel tank removal - pick a nice
> level piece of polished concrete. A driveway will do, but the rough surface
> makes minor positioning the jack, to get the tank just so when lifting,
> more of a challenge.
>
> If you can bribe a friend to help with the install, do so. There is
> nothing to be gained by trying to install solo. Oh, they will drop out easy
> enough, but I forgot my assistant was gravity.
>
> Make sure you have enough clearance under the coach to use a creeper to
> get to either side of the tanks.
>
> keep the laptop handy to consult the archives when you hit a speedbump.
>
> YMMV
>
> Now I just need to finish the aux tank, bleed the brakes and install the
> upper PS bracket & hopefully it will be ready to roll...WooHoo.
>
> Beach trip in August, at this rate its going to be close... :lol:
>
> --
> 76 Birchaven - New engine, trans, brakes, airbags, fuel lines, seats,
> upholstery, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really
> thinking
> about us second hand owners...
> Columbia, SC.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
* This is my second trip through the 60's; the first time the drugs were
better !
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Re: [GMCnet] Wicked Mistress update [message #251198 is a reply to message #251186] |
Sun, 01 June 2014 17:51 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005 Registered: August 2004 Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Great read! Keep up the good work. By the way, my Avion has the propane hard line running under the fuel tanks. This may be more common than expected.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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Re: Wicked Mistress update [message #251222 is a reply to message #251174] |
Sun, 01 June 2014 19:45 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769 Registered: February 2013 Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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roy1 wrote on Sun, 01 June 2014 13:45
If you did all that in one day I would say you are a superman.
LOL, no, About three days, not counting trips to the store for this or that. Of course, I only get one day a week to spend on this...
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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Re: Wicked Mistress update [message #251228 is a reply to message #251222] |
Sun, 01 June 2014 20:05 |
Lane Burrow
Messages: 29 Registered: October 2013 Location: Western NC
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Great story Joe. Keep up the good work. These old gals sure keep us busy. We're planning a long trip this summer and have a lot to do but progress is being made. Good luck.
Lane & Nancy Burrow
73 Canyonlands (silverbullet)
Columbus, NC
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Re: Wicked Mistress update [message #251324 is a reply to message #251228] |
Mon, 02 June 2014 18:30 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769 Registered: February 2013 Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Aaaaaand got the aux tank in Sunday. Well, mostly.
On the main tank, I had the straps as more of a backup and used the floor jack to actually lift the tank into place. Better than nothing, but still clunky. On the Aux tank, I fully embraced the straps as the primary tool to raise the tank. The strap material makes rotating the tank around to get the back mounts lined up so much easier. I got the back straps bolted, and then used the ratcheting straps to tilt the tank back horizontal a little at a time. As the tank was approaching its bolted in position, I realized the tank outlet and fill neck were about 1/2" apart. Uh-Oh. With that kind of clearance, there is no way the rubber tube was going fit in and to join the two - no room to wiggle.
So, I lowered the tank back down a little bit, and that is when I noticed that the straps allow the tank to sway left to right on the rear hooks. It wasn't a lot, but it was enough to get the hose on the tank and then work it onto the fill neck a little at a time as it was being raised. Genius. The floor jack does not offer this kind of flexibility without either damaging the paint or risking dropping the tank. Time from start to finish by myself - about an hour.
Of course, that does not include starting over when I realized I had forgotten the hose clamps on the fill neck after getting it all in place... . Nor does it include two hours re-routing the hard fuel supply and vent lines in place (I was not going to let the tank off the rear mounts) due to that same hard gas line crossing over the tank neck right where the vent and fill hard lines were supposed to go...
Anyway, it ratcheted up just a quarter of an inch shy of being able to put the front bolts in. Likely have something else on top of the tank keeping it from going all the way up , but I called it a success, and a day, not wanting another setback to ruin the mood of mastering the straps...
So close.
Just in time for $4/gal fuel season...whoopee...Just might have a 250hp stationary man cave...
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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Re: Wicked Mistress update [message #251335 is a reply to message #251324] |
Mon, 02 June 2014 19:51 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547 Registered: March 2007 Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Joe Weir wrote on Mon, 02 June 2014 19:30Aaaaaand got the aux tank in Sunday. Well, mostly.
<snip>
Of course, that does not include starting over when I realized I had forgotten the hose clamps on the fill neck after getting it all in place... . Nor does it include two hours re-routing the hard fuel supply and vent lines in place (I was not going to let the tank off the rear mounts) due to that same hard gas line crossing over the tank neck right where the vent and fill hard lines were supposed to go...
Anyway, it ratcheted up just a quarter of an inch shy of being able to put the front bolts in. Likely have something else on top of the tank keeping it from going all the way up , but I called it a success, and a day, not wanting another setback to ruin the mood of mastering the straps...
So close.
Just in time for $4/gal fuel season...whoopee...Just might have a 250hp stationary man cave...
Joe,
I will not relate the time line here, but I have had both tanks down four times.
The second time I had no help at all but I had used the ratchet straps when I put the transmission back in so it was a natural. That is what I have used ever since.
I had managed to lose a clamp on one fill joint. When I figured out just how easy it was to deal with the fill with the tank in place, that was the last time I tried to juggle a tank to hit the fill. So, the other thing I have taken up suggesting is that one first remove all the fill tubing and then think about putting back when the tanks are in place. It is much easier to hit the fill neck of the tank when only wrestling the relatively small fill pipes as opposed to hitting the fill joint while juggling the tank.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Re: Wicked Mistress update [message #251345 is a reply to message #251335] |
Mon, 02 June 2014 20:37 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769 Registered: February 2013 Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Matt Colie wrote on Mon, 02 June 2014 19:51
Joe,
I will not relate the time line here, but I have had both tanks down four times. ...
Matt
I hope I do not get that proficient...
Seriously, I can see how it would get a lot easier with every drop. Still don't see a lot of room to get that fill tube on without doing it as the tank is coming up. On mine, there is seriously no room between the tank fill and the fill tube. 1/4" closer and they would be touching It was suprisingly easy for me to guide the hose on while easing the tank up - it just popped on.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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Re: Wicked Mistress update [message #251380 is a reply to message #251165] |
Tue, 03 June 2014 07:07 |
appie
Messages: 902 Registered: April 2013 Location: denmark
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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I know it is to late, but for other readers Removing thanks was easy using a motorcycle jack This is the on that has 2 lifting point that fit under the dobbel tubes of the motorcycle
That and a plate of plywood balances the tanks up and down easely
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
[Updated on: Tue, 03 June 2014 07:11] Report message to a moderator
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Re: [GMCnet] Wicked Mistress update [message #251381 is a reply to message #251379] |
Tue, 03 June 2014 07:04 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806 Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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I have done the tank drop too many times to count. Concrete floor, and a
floor jack with a 16" square chunk of 1/2" plywood attatched to the pad is
the order of the day. Plain old houshold dish washing soap like palmolive
or joy will lube the rubber sleeves and elbows to make fitting them to the
manifold easier. I have some super slick rubber lubricant that I use also,
but it is hard to find. If you try to attach the tank to the a jack, then
you will fight with the jack as well as the tank. Ratchet straps used as
you describe will also work. If you decide to use the alcohol resistant
rubber fuel hoses, take some duct tape and make sure that the lines stay in
the depression created for that purpose. Same with the vent lines for the
liquid/vapour charcoal cannister system. If they wind up between the floor
of the coach and the tank, you will have problems when filling the tanks
with fuel.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR (currently in Valpariso, IN at Ken Burton's Hangar. On the road
to Ypsilanti, Mi soon. Be there for a couple of days to regroup and plan
more of this traveling road circus that we call Route 66 Rolling Rally.
Sure wish Dwayne and Sharon were with us to share the experiences.
On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 4:49 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
> Joe Weir wrote on Mon, 02 June 2014 21:37
>> Seriously, I can see how it would get a lot easier with every drop.
> Still don't see a lot of room to get that fill tube on without doing it as
>> the tank is coming up. On mine, there is seriously no room between the
> tank fill and the fill tube. 1/4" closer and they would be touching It was
>> suprisingly easy for me to guide the hose on while easing the tank up -
> it just popped on.
>
> Joe,
>
> The only trick is rolling in the connection to the T at the Auxiliary
> tank. The main tank is a rubber Ell and is easy. It is also a lot easier
> if
> the rubber has not completely hardened.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES
> '73 Glacier 23 With 4 Rear Brakes that pull as they should
> headed for the TCT @ PJ Hoffmeister this weekend
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Re: Wicked Mistress update [message #251699 is a reply to message #251379] |
Sat, 07 June 2014 15:04 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769 Registered: February 2013 Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Matt Colie wrote on Tue, 03 June 2014 06:49
Joe,
The only trick is rolling in the connection to the T at the Auxiliary tank. The main tank is a rubber Ell and is easy. It is also a lot easier if the rubber has not completely hardened.
Matt
Ahhh, yeah, I take all of that back. It seems I had the back of the tank wedged in between the frame and the coach floor, once I freed that up, the tank swung back and forth with plenty of room to get the hose on, no special contortions needed, at least where the hose was concerned. Thanks Matt.
The lesson here is that if you are having an experience vastly different from the wisdom of the learned members, stop. You are probably doing it wrong....
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
[Updated on: Sat, 07 June 2014 15:04] Report message to a moderator
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