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| [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251029] |
Fri, 30 May 2014 14:08  |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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Senior Member |
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Guys (and gals),
after a couple of month searching for the right GMC motorhome,
travelling twice to the US and thereby spending a couple of grand just
to look at vehicles, the hunt came to an end.
After looking at the last one, which all of a sudded had a generator
problem (and I really do believe the seller that it worked fine before),
that I had planned on taking on a cross country trip, I realize, that
a) The GMC community is/was amazingly helpful
b) A GMC and I do not fit. Too many uncertinties, too little knowledge,
and too little patients.
Thanks for everyone that has helped me, answered my questions and made
me feel home. Thanks to Mitch and his wife for being helpful and
welcoming, and for trying everthing possible, to make the sale go
through. I am not sitting again the SEA airport, waiting for my
e-tickets to arrive in my mail. Instead of flying over NYC and Moskov
home, I'll travel over Reykjavik and Copenhagen.
Thanks everyone, and I'll keep on lurking for a while longer.
--
Best regards
Peer Oliver Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
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Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251030 is a reply to message #251029] |
Fri, 30 May 2014 14:14  |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Can't say you didn't give it the old 'college try' !
Mike in NS
On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 4:08 PM, Peer Oliver Schmidt
wrote:
> Guys (and gals),
>
> after a couple of month searching for the right GMC motorhome,
> travelling twice to the US and thereby spending a couple of grand just
> to look at vehicles, the hunt came to an end.
>
> After looking at the last one, which all of a sudded had a generator
> problem (and I really do believe the seller that it worked fine before),
> that I had planned on taking on a cross country trip, I realize, that
>
> a) The GMC community is/was amazingly helpful
> b) A GMC and I do not fit. Too many uncertinties, too little knowledge,
> and too little patients.
>
> Thanks for everyone that has helped me, answered my questions and made
> me feel home. Thanks to Mitch and his wife for being helpful and
> welcoming, and for trying everthing possible, to make the sale go
> through. I am not sitting again the SEA airport, waiting for my
> e-tickets to arrive in my mail. Instead of flying over NYC and Moskov
> home, I'll travel over Reykjavik and Copenhagen.
>
> Thanks everyone, and I'll keep on lurking for a while longer.
> --
> Best regards
>
> Peer Oliver Schmidt
> PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
* This is my second trip through the 60's; the first time the drugs were
better !
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| Re: [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251037 is a reply to message #251029] |
Fri, 30 May 2014 15:18 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Peer,
SO sorry it didn't work out. We were looking forward to your adventures
and to having you among our International members. Hope you won't abandon
us completely.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Peer Oliver Schmidt
wrote:
> Guys (and gals),
>
> after a couple of month searching for the right GMC motorhome,
> travelling twice to the US and thereby spending a couple of grand just
> to look at vehicles, the hunt came to an end.
>
> After looking at the last one, which all of a sudded had a generator
> problem (and I really do believe the seller that it worked fine before),
> that I had planned on taking on a cross country trip, I realize, that
>
> a) The GMC community is/was amazingly helpful
> b) A GMC and I do not fit. Too many uncertinties, too little knowledge,
> and too little patients.
>
> Thanks for everyone that has helped me, answered my questions and made
> me feel home. Thanks to Mitch and his wife for being helpful and
> welcoming, and for trying everthing possible, to make the sale go
> through. I am not sitting again the SEA airport, waiting for my
> e-tickets to arrive in my mail. Instead of flying over NYC and Moskov
> home, I'll travel over Reykjavik and Copenhagen.
>
> Thanks everyone, and I'll keep on lurking for a while longer.
> --
> Best regards
>
> Peer Oliver Schmidt
> PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251039 is a reply to message #251037] |
Fri, 30 May 2014 15:21 |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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Senior Member |
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Hello Ken,
> SO sorry it didn't work out. We were looking forward to your adventures
> and to having you among our International members.
Me too. I had envision me cruising that thing down the highways of the
US with my kids.
> Hope you won't abandon
> us completely.
>
As I said, I'll continue to lurk around a bit, and might add one or two
(funny) remarks when I get the chance :)
--
Best regards
Peer Oliver Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
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Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251042 is a reply to message #251040] |
Fri, 30 May 2014 15:59 |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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Senior Member |
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Sigmund Frankenfelter,
> I keep hoping that the continued support and internationalization of this vehicle will move GM or someone someday to venture back into production. It
> sure would be nice if a new , modern engine/transmission combo were marketed. Maybe, if enough of them were on the road in Europe, some hungry German
> car company might take on the challenge.
The european market seems to fairly happy with the current choice people
have. From Fiat based, over the MB Sprinter based.
And the point re lower entry due to front wheel drive is mood, imho, if
that higher point is used to add storage, and/or move stuff like the A/C
away from the top of the car you will end up with a vehicle not much
higher if any. For example, the Hymer b-class I just googled is around
9'5" high, which is just only half a feet more than the GMC, while at
the time providing a bit more headroom inside.
Granted, it doesn't look nearly as cool as the GMC motorhome :)
--
Best regards
Peer Oliver Schmidt
the internet company
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
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Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251049 is a reply to message #251042] |
Fri, 30 May 2014 16:24 |
Mitch
Messages: 272
Registered: May 2009
Location: Tacoma, Wa
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Well, that was interesting.
In something like 24 hours (or maybe a bit less) we met an interesting man willing to attempt a new adventure.
We truly like him.
Wherever he goes, what ever he does we wish Peer smooth seas and following winds.
It was good to meet you my friend.
Mitch
Tacoma, Wa.
'80 Spitfire
'03 Windstar
'77 Jaguar XJ6-C
X(very)'76 PB 26 "The Beast"
Where it rains, always.
It's wet, No sun, Gray.
Go to Oregon.
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| Re: [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251050 is a reply to message #251042] |
Fri, 30 May 2014 16:29 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I hope your decision was not based on the Onan not working. We would have gotten that fixed for you.
That said, I understand that when things (the basic design of the coach) do not meet your needs or what you want, you need to walk away and reassess what you are looking for.
I have done exactly what you are doing twice before. I once flew to Phoenix and did not like the vehicle I went to pick up. Another time I flew to Long Island for a vehicle and rode home on the Amtrak (train) instead. Neither were GMCs.
Please feel free to stick around this forum. GMC owner or not, you are always welcome here. Besides that, Rob M. need someone to type cryptic German language messages to.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251051 is a reply to message #251049] |
Fri, 30 May 2014 16:30 |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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Senior Member |
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Mitch,
I have to say the same thing back to you and your wife. It has been a
great pleasure and experience meeting and talking to you both. I wish
your wife all the best with her back, and the two of you, to actually do
whatever you set your eyes on.
Take care, and should you ever visit Germany, you've got my number!
--
Best regards
Peer Oliver Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
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Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251052 is a reply to message #251050] |
Fri, 30 May 2014 16:34 |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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Senior Member |
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Hello Ken,
> I hope your decision was not based on the Onan not working. We would have gotten that fixed for you.
I am sure the Onan would have eventually get fixed. It was a number of
things that made a little itch grow bigger and bigger, to in the end,
and if you ever ask Mitch about this, it really was essentially just a
few meters away from the bank, that I made up my mind. I am sure that,
whoever will end up with Mitch's GMC will get a good vehicle.
> Please feel free to stick around this forum. GMC owner or not, you are always welcome here. Besides that, Rob M. need someone to type cryptic German language messages to.
Cryptic messages I can do myself very well :-)
Thanks for keeping me, and I do plan on sticking around. My friend in VA
just mentioned that he will now be on hunt to find a good 6kUSD GMC for
me, just to proof a point :)
--
Best regards
Peer Oliver Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
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Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251060 is a reply to message #251029] |
Fri, 30 May 2014 19:10 |
werewilfs
Messages: 329
Registered: July 2012
Location: Rappahannock County, VA
Karma: 0
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Make sure your friend contacts some of us in VA to assist in the "hunt." There's some great owners out this way. Sorry you weren't able to bite the bullet and join us.
Jared & Stefanie Kohl
Rappahannock County, VA
1973 Painted Desert "Onslow"
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| Re: [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251063 is a reply to message #251060] |
Fri, 30 May 2014 19:44 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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After all this I feel the worst for Mitch.
Hope a whole lotta time wasn't wasted.
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
> On May 30, 2014, at 5:10 PM, Jared & Stefanie Kohl wrote:
>
> Make sure your friend contacts some of us in VA to assist in the "hunt." There's some great owners out this way. Sorry you weren't able to bite the
> bullet and join us.
> --
> Jared & Stefanie Kohl
> Rappahannock County, VA
> 1973 Painted Desert "Onslow"
>
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251066 is a reply to message #251052] |
Fri, 30 May 2014 20:00 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Peer,
Quite frankly when I read your responses to my questions about the tool box I came to the same conclusion that you did regarding you
and your brother owning a GMC. I got the impression you and your brother are not what is commonly referred to in Australia as GEAR
HEADS.
A great number of the people that frequent this Forum are GEAR HEADS! They LOVE tinkering on vehicles, just note the signatures of a
lot of them; it is quite common to find a list of classic cars.
At a Great Lakers members meeting someone asked if people that own GMC's are RV enthusiasts or antique vehicle restoration
enthusiasts. I am of the opinion that it's a mix which leans toward the latter.
There are lot of guys here that are fooling themselves when they rate a forty year old motorhome as better than a current generation
motorhome from the aspect of maintenance. They will say that things go wrong with the new units as well and they are correct,
however, it's a damn site easier to find a shop that can repair a vehicle that is four years old than one that is forty years old!
If your heart is set on a GMC I would suggest you forget about a $6,000 unit, I think you'd be much better off in a restored GMC and
that's going to cost a hell of lot more.
Schuss,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: Peer Oliver Schmidt
Hello Ken,
> I hope your decision was not based on the Onan not working. We would have gotten that fixed for you.
I am sure the Onan would have eventually get fixed. It was a number of things that made a little itch grow bigger and bigger, to in
the end, and if you ever ask Mitch about this, it really was essentially just a few meters away from the bank, that I made up my
mind. I am sure that, whoever will end up with Mitch's GMC will get a good vehicle.
> Please feel free to stick around this forum. GMC owner or not, you are always welcome here. Besides that, Rob M. need someone to
type cryptic German language messages to.
Cryptic messages I can do myself very well :-)
Thanks for keeping me, and I do plan on sticking around. My friend in VA just mentioned that he will now be on hunt to find a good
6k USD GMC for me, just to proof a point :)
--
Best regards
Peer
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251074 is a reply to message #251063] |
Fri, 30 May 2014 23:32 |
Mitch
Messages: 272
Registered: May 2009
Location: Tacoma, Wa
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks.
I don't want to say a whole lot tonight, other than we are doing some serious thinking.
More later.
Oh, and parts for the Onan are on the way.
sgltrac wrote on Fri, 30 May 2014 17:44After all this I feel the worst for Mitch.
Hope a whole lotta time wasn't wasted.
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
> On May 30, 2014, at 5:10 PM, Jared & Stefanie Kohl wrote:
>
> Make sure your friend contacts some of us in VA to assist in the "hunt." There's some great owners out this way. Sorry you weren't able to bite the
> bullet and join us.
> --
> Jared & Stefanie Kohl
> Rappahannock County, VA
> 1973 Painted Desert "Onslow"
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Mitch
Tacoma, Wa.
'80 Spitfire
'03 Windstar
'77 Jaguar XJ6-C
X(very)'76 PB 26 "The Beast"
Where it rains, always.
It's wet, No sun, Gray.
Go to Oregon.
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| Re: [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251080 is a reply to message #251066] |
Sat, 31 May 2014 02:44 |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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Senior Member |
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Am 31.05.2014 03:00, schrieb Robert Mueller:
> Peer,
>
> Quite frankly when I read your responses to my questions about the tool box I came to the same conclusion that you did regarding you and your brother owning a GMC. I got the impression you and your brother are not what is commonly referred to in Australia as GEAR HEADS.
True. Even though my brother and I (well, mostly the brother), did a
frame off restauration of a VW bug convertible and a VW Golf 1, we do
not want to go that route during vacationing.
>
> [..]
> If your heart is set on a GMC I would suggest you forget about a $6,000 unit, I think you'd be much better off in a restored GMC and that's going to cost a hell of lot more.
When my friend mentioned the 6k I was laughing to my self, very well
knowing that him having that kind of find is between zero and nil.
--
Best regards
Peer Oliver Schmidt
the internet company
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
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Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251086 is a reply to message #251029] |
Sat, 31 May 2014 08:49 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Nobody can accuse you of an uninformed decision, anyway. And if you and it don't fit, look elsewhere. I'm on the opposite side, the GMC was about the only thing which did/does fit my needs. I don't like young dogs scrambling up/down steps so the low floor is a boon. With the max load of two people and three dogs, it's full, With the normal one and one or two and two it suits nicely. 'I can fix it' to a large degree was a major selling point. I found the support network about the same time I bought the thing, the network is the icing on my cake. Please do as most of us have done here - pick what fits and go for it. And, keep us aware of what does fit for you and how it works out.
--johnny
'76 23' transnmode norris
braselton ga
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251094 is a reply to message #251086] |
Sat, 31 May 2014 12:23 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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I have no doubt that a GMC isn't a "fit" for the vast majority of the unwashed masses. If definitely requires a "special" owner...
What surprised me - was that Peer had to fly 1/2 ways around the globe to find that out! It would be interesting to know (without jeopardizing any future potential sales for Mitch) what the major deal-breaking issues were.
I would have thought fixing or replacing the Onan could be done for about the same outlay as a plane ticket from Germany!
Before I heard of the final outcome, I was mentioning to my wife (as we were driving our GMC) that I thought I would have spent the pre-x-country trip prep time looking at engine, tranny, brakes etc... rather than trying to get the Onan running. For me - it would have been: damn the Onan doesn't start, how are the brakes? And then dealt with any financial adjustments later.
I would have expected Mitch to be compensated (slightly) for taking the GMC off the market etc... But that would up to Mitch and Peer to agree on.
But having said that, it's likely better to "get out now", rather than "dive in deeper". I respect everybody's decisions, I just hope things work out for Mitch!
Rob
76 Royale
Victoria, BC
> On May 31, 2014, at 6:49 AM, Johnny Bridges wrote:
>
> Nobody can accuse you of an uninformed decision, anyway. And if you and it don't fit, look elsewhere. I'm on the opposite side, the GMC was about
> the only thing which did/does fit my needs. I don't like young dogs scrambling up/down steps so the low floor is a boon. With the max load of two
> people and three dogs, it's full, With the normal one and one or two and two it suits nicely. 'I can fix it' to a large degree was a major selling
> point. I found the support network about the same time I bought the thing, the network is the icing on my cake. Please do as most of us have done
> here - pick what fits and go for it. And, keep us aware of what does fit for you and how it works out.
>
> --johnny
> '76 23' transnmode norris
> braselton ga
> --
> "Sometimes I wonder what tomorrow's gonna bring when I think about my dirty life and times" --Warren Zevon
> _______________________________________________
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Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251095 is a reply to message #251094] |
Sat, 31 May 2014 12:32 |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
I do not think it be described with a lot rationality behind it. After
being enthusiastic about a GMC in VA only to be really brought down by
it, I had very high hopes for Mitch's.
Somehow it seems, that the few things that did not work as advertised
(and I do NOT put any blame on Mitch), somehow added the last drop to my
misery, and after consulting with SWMBO, and on our way driving to the
bank to change the cashiers check, I came to the conclusion, that this
is all not for me. I was probably blindsighted by all the nice people in
this list, by the idea of travelling with a real classic that fit my
needs perfectly, without realizing that I probably do not have what it
takes to be an owner.
Financially this whole GMC ordeal did cost me a lot of money. The last
trip alone will total somewhere around 3kUSD. When Mitch came around and
offered me to cancel out of the deal, it took me a long time to accept
that. When Mitch came around and offered me to reimburse me of my travel
expenses, I right away declined.
In the end, it was not about the money. It was about the final negative
thing happening, that caused the whole idea to fall to pieces.
I hope, I wasn't causing too much trouble for Mitch, and I sincerely
hope as well, that he finds someone else shortly. And if it is himself,
that will utilize for some more time.
--
Best regards
Peer Oliver Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
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Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: [GMCnet] The search has ended [message #251110 is a reply to message #251094] |
Sat, 31 May 2014 16:07 |
Mitch
Messages: 272
Registered: May 2009
Location: Tacoma, Wa
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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For clarification: the decision to not buy/not sell was mutual.
Peer was under severe time restraints and it only got worse with the Onan problem.
I wish the problem had cropped up a week earlier - it would have saved him the time and expense.
Sue and I have spent the last day and a half discussing whether to keep The Beast, but the underlying issues haven't changed; our health.
My knees can be/will be fixed, but her spinal issues may not(and they make riding in a vehicle more than 30 minutes agony), and her history of internal bleeding keeps us leery of being more than a few hours away from home.
I'll fix the Onan, and a few other items that arose and repost it.
And Yes, I'll let you know when that happens.
It's basically a good rig that needs to be used; between Rob Allen and myself it has sat absolutely too much.
Oh, and if one of you wants it as it sits, make me an offer and I'll include the parts on order.Rob wrote on Sat, 31 May 2014 10:23I have no doubt that a GMC isn't a "fit" for the vast majority of the unwashed masses. If definitely requires a "special" owner...
What surprised me - was that Peer had to fly 1/2 ways around the globe to find that out! It would be interesting to know (without jeopardizing any future potential sales for Mitch) what the major deal-breaking issues were.
I would have thought fixing or replacing the Onan could be done for about the same outlay as a plane ticket from Germany!
Before I heard of the final outcome, I was mentioning to my wife (as we were driving our GMC) that I thought I would have spent the pre-x-country trip prep time looking at engine, tranny, brakes etc... rather than trying to get the Onan running. For me - it would have been: damn the Onan doesn't start, how are the brakes? And then dealt with any financial adjustments later.
I would have expected Mitch to be compensated (slightly) for taking the GMC off the market etc... But that would up to Mitch and Peer to agree on.
But having said that, it's likely better to "get out now", rather than "dive in deeper". I respect everybody's decisions, I just hope things work out for Mitch!
Rob
76 Royale
Victoria, BC
> On May 31, 2014, at 6:49 AM, Johnny Bridges wrote:
>
> Nobody can accuse you of an uninformed decision, anyway. And if you and it don't fit, look elsewhere. I'm on the opposite side, the GMC was about
> the only thing which did/does fit my needs. I don't like young dogs scrambling up/down steps so the low floor is a boon. With the max load of two
> people and three dogs, it's full, With the normal one and one or two and two it suits nicely. 'I can fix it' to a large degree was a major selling
> point. I found the support network about the same time I bought the thing, the network is the icing on my cake. Please do as most of us have done
> here - pick what fits and go for it. And, keep us aware of what does fit for you and how it works out.
>
> --johnny
> '76 23' transnmode norris
> braselton ga
> --
> "Sometimes I wonder what tomorrow's gonna bring when I think about my dirty life and times" --Warren Zevon
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Mitch
Tacoma, Wa.
'80 Spitfire
'03 Windstar
'77 Jaguar XJ6-C
X(very)'76 PB 26 "The Beast"
Where it rains, always.
It's wet, No sun, Gray.
Go to Oregon.
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