Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Duracool
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool [message #249857 is a reply to message #249855] |
Fri, 16 May 2014 13:07   |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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Jeff Marten wrote on Fri, 16 May 2014 12:32Is the Duracool 12a the refrigerant some have used in the GMC's dash air?
Yes, with great success.
Jeff Marten wrote on Fri, 16 May 2014 12:32I was ready to pull the trigger on some this year, but found this:
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html
Yes, and life causes death.
Seriously, the government says lots of things I take with a bucket of salt. Like we shouldn't build a dam because of a nearly extinct snail darter that was subsequently found all over North Alabama. I doubt that all the Duracool in the world caused as much environmental damage as the jet airplane that flew Mayla Obama, her friends, and a couple four dozen Secret Service and advance staff to Mexico for a spring break vacation.
Anyway, before I get somebody mad at me. The way I read that is that it's illegal to REPLACE R12 with Duracool. I don't read that it is illegal to USE Duracool in an EMPTY system.
Just my opinion.
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Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
[Updated on: Fri, 16 May 2014 13:07] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool [message #249858 is a reply to message #249857] |
Fri, 16 May 2014 13:14 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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since most gmc systems are out of freon any way
- replace the r-12 fill-connectors
- with 403 connectors
- add 3 cans of dura cool
- label the system is charged with duracool
- all legal, and working better than before
and read here
http://gmcmotorhome.info/heat.html#duracool
erf
On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Kerry Pinkerton wrote:
> Jeff Marten wrote on Fri, 16 May 2014 12:32
>> Is the Duracool 12a the refrigerant some have used in the GMC's dash air?
>
>
> Yes, with great success.
>
> Jeff Marten wrote on Fri, 16 May 2014 12:32
>> I was ready to pull the trigger on some this year, but found this:
>> http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html
>>
>> Yes, and life causes death.
>>
>> Seriously, the government says lots of things I take with a bucket of
> salt. Like we shouldn't build a dam because of a nearly extinct snail
>> darter that was subsequently found all over North Alabama. I doubt that
> all the Duracool in the world caused as much environmental damage as the
>> jet airplane that flew Mayla Obama, her friends, and a couple four dozen
> Secret Service and advance staff to Mexico for a spring break vacation.
>>
>> Anyway, before I get somebody mad at me. The way I read that is that
> it's illegal to REPLACE R12 with Duracool. I don't read that it is illegal
>> to USE Duracool in an EMPTY system.
>>
>> Just my opinion.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> --
> Kerry Pinkerton
>
> North Alabama, near Huntsville,
>
> 77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, Manny Brakes, 1 ton, tranny also a 76
> Eleganza to be re-bodied as an Art Deco car hauler
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool [message #249860 is a reply to message #249858] |
Fri, 16 May 2014 13:40 |
Jeff Marten
Messages: 199
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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How is it legal???
"It has been illegal since July 13, 1995 to replace
CFC-12 with the HC-12a® formulation that was submitted
for SNAP review in any refrigeration or A/C application
other than industrial process refrigeration. The same
prohibition for OZ-12® took effect on April 18, 1994.
Because DURACOOL 12a® has the same chemical composition
as the HC-12a® formulation that was submitted for SNAP
review (i.e., Hydrocarbon Blend B), DURACOOL 12a® is
also subject to the same restrictions.
HC-12a®, as reformulated to meet DOT requirements,
is not the same as Hydrocarbon Blend B and has not been
submitted for SNAP review. OZ Technology is therefore
prohibited from
marketing this blend as a substitute for any
ozone-depleting substance. In addition, any
use of this blend as a substitute for CFC-12 or any
other ozone-depleting chemical, in industrial process
refrigeration or any other refrigeration or A/C end use, is
prohibited under the Clean Air Act."
and:
May hydrocarbon refrigerants be used
to replace
CFC-12, commonly
referred to as "Freon® ," in cars?
No. It is illegal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants
like HC-12a® and DURACOOL 12a® as substitutes for
CFC-12 in automobile or truck air conditioning under any
circumstances.
> Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 11:14:47 -0700
> From: mr.erfisher@gmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Duracool
>
> since most gmc systems are out of freon any way
> - replace the r-12 fill-connectors
> - with 403 connectors
> - add 3 cans of dura cool
> - label the system is charged with duracool
> - all legal, and working better than before
>
> and read here
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/heat.html#duracool
>
> erf
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Kerry Pinkerton wrote:
>
>> Jeff Marten wrote on Fri, 16 May 2014 12:32
>>> Is the Duracool 12a the refrigerant some have used in the GMC's dash air?
>>
>>
>> Yes, with great success.
>>
>> Jeff Marten wrote on Fri, 16 May 2014 12:32
>>> I was ready to pull the trigger on some this year, but found this:
>>> http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html
>>>
>>> Yes, and life causes death.
>>>
>>> Seriously, the government says lots of things I take with a bucket of
>> salt. Like we shouldn't build a dam because of a nearly extinct snail
>>> darter that was subsequently found all over North Alabama. I doubt that
>> all the Duracool in the world caused as much environmental damage as the
>>> jet airplane that flew Mayla Obama, her friends, and a couple four dozen
>> Secret Service and advance staff to Mexico for a spring break vacation.
>>>
>>> Anyway, before I get somebody mad at me. The way I read that is that
>> it's illegal to REPLACE R12 with Duracool. I don't read that it is illegal
>>> to USE Duracool in an EMPTY system.
>>>
>>> Just my opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kerry Pinkerton
>>
>> North Alabama, near Huntsville,
>>
>> 77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, Manny Brakes, 1 ton, tranny also a 76
>> Eleganza to be re-bodied as an Art Deco car hauler
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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1985 Gulf Stream 34' Sun Stream
1964 Falcon 'Vert
1980 Bradley GTE
1999 Chevy Tahoe
2005 Saab 93 Aero
1987 Suzuki Intruder 1400
1978 Glastron/Carlson CV23
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool [message #249861 is a reply to message #249860] |
Fri, 16 May 2014 14:24 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Read the poop
- ok to upgrade to 134
Ok to upgrade from 134 to duracool
Wala.
Erf
FREE WIFI @ Mickey D
On May 16, 2014, at 11:40 AM, Jeff Marten wrote:
> How is it legal???
>
> "It has been illegal since July 13, 1995 to replace
> CFC-12 with the HC-12a® formulation that was submitted
> for SNAP review in any refrigeration or A/C application
> other than industrial process refrigeration. The same
> prohibition for OZ-12® took effect on April 18, 1994.
> Because DURACOOL 12a® has the same chemical composition
> as the HC-12a® formulation that was submitted for SNAP
> review (i.e., Hydrocarbon Blend B), DURACOOL 12a® is
> also subject to the same restrictions.
> HC-12a®, as reformulated to meet DOT requirements,
> is not the same as Hydrocarbon Blend B and has not been
> submitted for SNAP review. OZ Technology is therefore
> prohibited from
> marketing this blend as a substitute for any
> ozone-depleting substance. In addition, any
> use of this blend as a substitute for CFC-12 or any
> other ozone-depleting chemical, in industrial process
> refrigeration or any other refrigeration or A/C end use, is
> prohibited under the Clean Air Act."
>
>
> and:
> May hydrocarbon refrigerants be used
> to replace
> CFC-12, commonly
> referred to as "Freon® ," in cars?
>
>
> No. It is illegal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants
> like HC-12a® and DURACOOL 12a® as substitutes for
> CFC-12 in automobile or truck air conditioning under any
> circumstances.
>
>
>
>
>> Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 11:14:47 -0700
>> From: mr.erfisher@gmail.com
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Duracool
>>
>> since most gmc systems are out of freon any way
>> - replace the r-12 fill-connectors
>> - with 403 connectors
>> - add 3 cans of dura cool
>> - label the system is charged with duracool
>> - all legal, and working better than before
>>
>> and read here
>> http://gmcmotorhome.info/heat.html#duracool
>>
>> erf
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Kerry Pinkerton wrote:
>>
>>> Jeff Marten wrote on Fri, 16 May 2014 12:32
>>>> Is the Duracool 12a the refrigerant some have used in the GMC's dash air?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, with great success.
>>>
>>> Jeff Marten wrote on Fri, 16 May 2014 12:32
>>>> I was ready to pull the trigger on some this year, but found this:
>>>> http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html
>>>>
>>>> Yes, and life causes death.
>>>>
>>>> Seriously, the government says lots of things I take with a bucket of
>>> salt. Like we shouldn't build a dam because of a nearly extinct snail
>>>> darter that was subsequently found all over North Alabama. I doubt that
>>> all the Duracool in the world caused as much environmental damage as the
>>>> jet airplane that flew Mayla Obama, her friends, and a couple four dozen
>>> Secret Service and advance staff to Mexico for a spring break vacation.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, before I get somebody mad at me. The way I read that is that
>>> it's illegal to REPLACE R12 with Duracool. I don't read that it is illegal
>>>> to USE Duracool in an EMPTY system.
>>>>
>>>> Just my opinion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kerry Pinkerton
>>>
>>> North Alabama, near Huntsville,
>>>
>>> 77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, Manny Brakes, 1 ton, tranny also a 76
>>> Eleganza to be re-bodied as an Art Deco car hauler
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
>> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
>> -------
>> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
>> Alternator Protection Cable
>> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool [message #249862 is a reply to message #249855] |
Fri, 16 May 2014 14:38 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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I choose to interpret that as saying it's ok to use it as long as I am not REPLACING freon. Since my system had, or will have, no freon in it when, and if, any Duracool was, or would, be installed, I can't very well be replacing it can I? Hows that for covering my bases in case the NSA is watching. 
Yeah, I realize I'm splitting hairs but if it had been written correctly in plain language instead of bureaucratese, their intent would not be open to discussion.
Here is the nut. It's legal to sell. It's not legal to REPLACE R12 with it. I take that to mean that I should not vent the R12 to the air and replace it with Duracool (which cools better). Others might take that to read otherwise. Your mileage may vary and you can do what you want. I prefer to be cool rather than hot.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool [message #249877 is a reply to message #249855] |
Fri, 16 May 2014 20:18 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Who cares, who will know. Put it in anyway.
R134a is flammable and dangerous too.
Gasoline is uberX more dangerous than anything.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool - Rant [message #249899 is a reply to message #249855] |
Sat, 17 May 2014 08:21 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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At one time, the EPA had a real function.
In recent times, they have only been an arm of the administration and overly concerned with allowing any innovation that might make things better. As a prime example, declaring that CO2 was a pollutant was a joke. This makes exhaling by any animal a violation and it completely ignores the fact that plants need CO2 it make photosynthesis work.
In the mean time, they are still watching cars that in many cases make the city air cleaner when they drive through it, but ignoring the facts about many other manufacturing processes.
<Rant Off>
If anybody ever gives you any static about HC-12a or the like, tell whomever that you had no refrigerant available and didn't want to leave the system at a negative pressure for fear of infiltration that might contain moisture. So, you filled it with propane.
The EPA has decided that anything that has been used as a refrigerant must now be handled as a refrigerant. I was to see them go after swamp coolers and the water, ammonia and hydrogen mix from the absorption units that break down.
Thank You
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool - Rant [message #249940 is a reply to message #249899] |
Sat, 17 May 2014 16:21 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Yeah, that dihydrogen monoxide used in swamp coolers is dangerous stuff.
Matt Colie wrote on Sat, 17 May 2014 06:21At one time, the EPA had a real function.
In recent times, they have only been an arm of the administration and overly concerned with allowing any innovation that might make things better. As a prime example, declaring that CO2 was a pollutant was a joke. This makes exhaling by any animal a violation and it completely ignores the fact that plants need CO2 it make photosynthesis work.
In the mean time, they are still watching cars that in many cases make the city air cleaner when they drive through it, but ignoring the facts about many other manufacturing processes.
<Rant Off>
If anybody ever gives you any static about HC-12a or the like, tell whomever that you had no refrigerant available and didn't want to leave the system at a negative pressure for fear of infiltration that might contain moisture. So, you filled it with propane.
The EPA has decided that anything that has been used as a refrigerant must now be handled as a refrigerant. I was to see them go after swamp coolers and the water, ammonia and hydrogen mix from the absorption units that break down.
Thank You
Matt
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool - Rant [message #249979 is a reply to message #249940] |
Sat, 17 May 2014 20:09 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Chr$ wrote on Sat, 17 May 2014 15:21Yeah, that dihydrogen monoxide used in swamp coolers is dangerous stuff.
Matt Colie wrote on Sat, 17 May 2014 06:21At one time, the EPA had a real function.
In recent times, they have only been an arm of the administration and overly concerned with allowing any innovation that might make things better. As a prime example, declaring that CO2 was a pollutant was a joke. This makes exhaling by any animal a violation and it completely ignores the fact that plants need CO2 it make photosynthesis work.
In the mean time, they are still watching cars that in many cases make the city air cleaner when they drive through it, but ignoring the facts about many other manufacturing processes.
<Rant Off>
If anybody ever gives you any static about HC-12a or the like, tell whomever that you had no refrigerant available and didn't want to leave the system at a negative pressure for fear of infiltration that might contain moisture. So, you filled it with propane.
The EPA has decided that anything that has been used as a refrigerant must now be handled as a refrigerant. I was to see them go after swamp coolers and the water, ammonia and hydrogen mix from the absorption units that break down.
Thank You
Matt
I'm glad all of you good folks are worrying about this stuff. Me--in the pool drinking margaritas and enjoying life in Chandler.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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