Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Replacing air bag system
| [GMCnet] Replacing air bag system [message #248168] |
Tue, 22 April 2014 10:04  |
glwgmc
Messages: 1014
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Hi JR,
Interesting comments and a good discussion. Isn't it fascinating how we all have different experiences with our coaches and how different many of them are from one another. In your case, with a stretch with a four bag air system and a load difference of 2,700 pounds from empty weight to ready to go full weight you see a 1/4" difference in ride height. I'm not sure if that is overall ride height front and rear, or just at the rear, but that 1/4" with an additional 2,700 pound load is within the original factory spec of +- 1/4" for ride height front and rear. On the other hand, Bob says his coach air system will react to just his weight walking from the front to the back of his coach. In my case, neither the Royale nor the Clasco (both with stock one bag systems) react all that much to changes in weight. They both reestablish correct ride height after leveling, but in different ways. The Royale uses the wireless air system and reestablishes proper ride height (well with
in +- 1/4") just by measuring air pressure in the bags. The Clasco uses the stock 1977 single compressor air control system and reestablishes proper ride height via the ride height control units directing the pressure to the bags (within its +- 3/8" factory tolerance). Both drive one hand straight as an arrow. Both are very relaxing touring vehicles for our use. And, we drive lots of miles under varying weight loads with both coaches in everything from long weekend to three months on the road kinds of trips.
When I said I could not find a nickels worth of difference, I meant that both do their intended job and both produce the desired outcome. The Clasco has a bunch fittings and solenoid air valves while the Royale has one line going to a manifold from the compressor and one line going from there to each air bag. The Royale remote requires changing batteries once in a while, the Clasco has no separate batteries to replace. The Royale never leaks down, the Clasco does once in a while until I can find the offending fitting and tighten it. The leaks are never large so are really hard to find. I use the special spray on juice for finding leaks in air and propane systems and usually have to wait 15 minutes or so for the bee hive of small bubbles to show the offending fitting. I think I have been through two or three of these episodes in the little less than a year that we have owned the Clasco.
Bottom line for me, I see no reason to change from one to the other unless and until something goes haywire with the stock set up and then it is less costly and easier to just eliminate all the leak points and go to the wireless. I see no reason at all to go from the wireless to the stock system. BTW, I use a 120vac small Senco nail gun compressor with the wireless system running off of my inverter. They cost $100 or so at any big box store and have at least as much air output as the largest of the 12vdc compressors so work fast enough for me.
Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building in historic Kerby, OR
Visitors always welcome!
glwork@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com
+++++++++++++++
COMMENTS FOR TONIGHT:
I agree with Todd?s email comments below. I have always had a coaches that have had operating air ride systems. Our 77 Eleganza II (our first coach) ( EL 1 )was a dream to drive, it was a true 2 finger on the steering wheel going down the road coach. The stretch coach built in 1997 also is a EL 1 system and I spent the time finally this fall to do the ride hight correctly and it drove very well out to Tucson and back this year almost 5800 miles total. It does have a few small air leaks that cause it to leak down air pressure over several days, but I will be going thru that this summer and will photo document that. I also have a complete EL 1 system that I bought GMCREC in Houston a few years back that will be going into the 1975 Avion to replace the Power Level system. I will be doing that because I can.
As for level control weight DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE. When I finally set the ride height this past fall ( it was off quite a bite both front and rear ) the coach weighed empty about 12,100#, now remember I have a stretch which weights more than the standard 26?. My going down the road with everything in the coach, including the kitchen sink, remember that we are going out for 3+ months, plus full fuel tanks ( 75 gallons ), 1/4 full water and basically empty holding tanks, I have 2 tanks, comes in at about 14,800# without passengers. The ride height between empty and loaded after settling was under a 1/4 inch. My system works pretty good, and I did check the coach tonight in the shop and there was no real difference between the fall 2013 and tonights measurements, empty weight measurement. I have air system pressure gauges that show supply and both left and right air pressure in the air bags. The pressure goes up almost 10# each side for the difference between empty and fu
lly loaded weights.
I have had air bag extenders on my 77 Eleganza II coach, but I noticed that the coach road too soft for me and swayed more, I took them off in 1999 and sold them. I have another set for sale ( New ) if anyone want them. They were very popular in the late 80?s and most of the 90?s. They did reduce the air pressure required. Now Todds new style Sullybag air bag system does also reduce the air pressure in the bags, but that is because of the size ( volume )of the bag that is used and it requires less air pressure for the same spring rate as the OEM bag actually giving it a more stable ride. Our stretch coach has a Buskirk designed 4 bags system ( All Buskirk Stretch coaches have the same system ). It is an upgraded version of Leigh Harrison's 4 bag system, but built out of considerable heavier materials and slightly larger air bags and doesn?t have the issues that the stock Harrison system has. It has a very stable ride going down the road.
Again all comments are welcome and we can discuss them all.
JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States
GMCMHI
78 GMC Buskirk 30? Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
+++++++++++++++
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Jerry & Sharon Work
78 Royale
Kerby, OR
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| Re: [GMCnet] Replacing air bag system [message #248246 is a reply to message #248168] |
Tue, 22 April 2014 22:46  |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Jerry,
One thing that I want to point out is that there is approximately at 9 to 10psi +/- difference in the bags from empty to fully loaded and the ride height is, for all intents and purposes remains the same after the coach levels itself. Also there is a difference in pressures between the right and left sides. As for weight at each wheel the coach is very well balanced with no one wheel that much different from the other. I had the coach weighed at Dothan on Alex Sirum’s scale and I was very pleased with the balance of the coach from front to back and side to side.
JR
at 11:04 AM, Work Jerry <glwork@mac.com> wrote:
> Hi JR,
>
> Interesting comments and a good discussion. Isn't it fascinating how we all have different experiences with our coaches and how different many of them are from one another. In your case, with a stretch with a four bag air system and a load difference of 2,700 pounds from empty weight to ready to go full weight you see a 1/4" difference in ride height. I'm not sure if that is overall ride height front and rear, or just at the rear, but that 1/4" with an additional 2,700 pound load is within the original factory spec of +- 1/4" for ride height front and rear. On the other hand, Bob says his coach air system will react to just his weight walking from the front to the back of his coach. In my case, neither the Royale nor the Clasco (both with stock one bag systems) react all that much to changes in weight. They both reestablish correct ride height after leveling, but in different ways. The Royale uses the wireless air system and reestablishes proper ride height (well with
> in +- 1/4") just by measuring air pressure in the bags. The Clasco uses the stock 1977 single compressor air control system and reestablishes proper ride height via the ride height control units directing the pressure to the bags (within its +- 3/8" factory tolerance). Both drive one hand straight as an arrow. Both are very relaxing touring vehicles for our use. And, we drive lots of miles under varying weight loads with both coaches in everything from long weekend to three months on the road kinds of trips.
>
> When I said I could not find a nickels worth of difference, I meant that both do their intended job and both produce the desired outcome. The Clasco has a bunch fittings and solenoid air valves while the Royale has one line going to a manifold from the compressor and one line going from there to each air bag. The Royale remote requires changing batteries once in a while, the Clasco has no separate batteries to replace. The Royale never leaks down, the Clasco does once in a while until I can find the offending fitting and tighten it. The leaks are never large so are really hard to find. I use the special spray on juice for finding leaks in air and propane systems and usually have to wait 15 minutes or so for the bee hive of small bubbles to show the offending fitting. I think I have been through two or three of these episodes in the little less than a year that we have owned the Clasco.
>
> Bottom line for me, I see no reason to change from one to the other unless and until something goes haywire with the stock set up and then it is less costly and easier to just eliminate all the leak points and go to the wireless. I see no reason at all to go from the wireless to the stock system. BTW, I use a 120vac small Senco nail gun compressor with the wireless system running off of my inverter. They cost $100 or so at any big box store and have at least as much air output as the largest of the 12vdc compressors so work fast enough for me.
>
> Jerry
> Jerry Work
> The Dovetail Joint
> Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building in historic Kerby, OR
> Visitors always welcome!
> glwork@mac.com
> http://jerrywork.com
> +++++++++++++++
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Replacing air bag system [message #248252 is a reply to message #248246] |
Wed, 23 April 2014 00:32 |
jim kanomata
Messages: 257
Registered: March 2007
Location: fremont,ca
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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4 bag systems are not all the same.
Ask Jim B.
He asked us to redo the Harrison unit that he had been selling for years, then got disillusioned as he was not able to support the heavy coaches and also was running into structural issues.
I contacted Ken Rose and purchase the rights to produce his basic design.
I hires Rick Flanagan o review the Harrison and the Rose unit.
We modeled the rear boggie system then went forth modifying and trying to meet Jim B's requirements.
Jim B would only allow us one month to come up with a first unit.
We took about 40 days, but JimB was very happy with the end product as it handled like the Harrison, carried more weight, rode smoother, easy to install, and cost considerably more.
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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