Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Limited Slip Differential - Helical Differential (How many people would be interested in a helical lsd?)
| Limited Slip Differential - Helical Differential [message #247843] |
Fri, 18 April 2014 20:17  |
KeithV
Messages: 4
Registered: March 2013
Location: Beaverton, OR
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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I have been "lurking" the forums for awhile now, and have seen others inquire into the availability of a helical limited slip differential (lsd) with no avail. The helical lsd is also known as torsen/gleason differential.
I'm trying to get a count of the number of people interested/willing to purchase a helical lsd and the price point for purchase. There is a local machine shop that builds these for custom applications and racing, and, if I can get 10+ interested people, I'll contact them about the costs and possibility of building one for our motorhomes.
I believe the 1980's supercar Vector W8 used the THM425 with a custom designed helical lsd, so it has been done in the past.
Thank you and I look forward to hearing your feedback.
Beaverton, OR
1976 GMC Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Limited Slip Differential - Helical Differential [message #247848 is a reply to message #247843] |
Fri, 18 April 2014 20:36  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Keith,
I dealt with a company here in Australia that builds differentials that lock using pneumatic pressure. I sent them a 3.07 final
drive and they investigated the possibility of building one for the GMC.
They told me that there just wasn't enough room in the final drive housing to fit the mechanism.
If you have not done so yet I would suggest if you have a 3.07 final drive you bring it down to the shop and let them look it over,
If you don't have one I would suggest you find some photos of the final drive on the PhotoSite and copy the IPB out of the parts
manual.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith
I have been "lurking" the forums for awhile now, and have seen others inquire into the availability of a helical limited slip
differential (lsd) with no avail. The helical lsd is also known as torsen/gleason differential.
I'm trying to get a count of the number of people interested/willing to purchase a helical lsd and the price point for purchase.
There is a local machine shop that builds these for custom applications and racing, and, if I can get 10+ interested people, I'll
contact them about the costs and possibility of building one for our motorhomes.
I believe the 1980's supercar Vector W8 used the THM425 with a custom designed helical lsd, so it has been done in the past.
Thank you and I look forward to hearing your feedback.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Limited Slip Differential - Helical Differential [message #247852 is a reply to message #247843] |
Fri, 18 April 2014 21:38 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| KeithV wrote on Fri, 18 April 2014 19:17 |
I have been "lurking" the forums for awhile now, and have seen others inquire into the availability of a helical limited slip differential (lsd) with no avail. The helical lsd is also known as torsen/gleason differential.
I'm trying to get a count of the number of people interested/willing to purchase a helical lsd and the price point for purchase. There is a local machine shop that builds these for custom applications and racing, and, if I can get 10+ interested people, I'll contact them about the costs and possibility of building one for our motorhomes.
I believe the 1980's supercar Vector W8 used the THM425 with a custom designed helical lsd, so it has been done in the past.
Thank you and I look forward to hearing your feedback.
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I believe the Torsen is a worm gear design.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Limited Slip Differential - Helical Differential [message #247857 is a reply to message #247843] |
Fri, 18 April 2014 22:38 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Keith,
Thanks for your suggestion. A cursory search for the Torsen differential reveals that it really enhances traction, the Audi Quattro and various luxury vehicles use it because of its apparently superior characteristics, transferring torque instantaneously to the wheel with better traction. It is made now by JTEKT, a concern with a local presence to me. They are committed to quality products down here. They assemble Toyota rack and pinion steering assemblies in our town.
The Torsen is said to be better at cornering, but I suspect that won't be a major concern. It is supposed to transfer more torque to the outside wheel in a corner, where due to weight transfer, more traction is often available. Torsen says it is built to last the life of the vehicle. That is a considerable time for the GMC motorhome.
There are those of us who would like one, I think, if it proves out the way it looks. If you need it, you would really appreciate it. Maybe the implementation would only consist of machining the special carrier to fit the "normal" ring gear, replacing the driveshafts, it is getting complicated already. It looks to be pretty expensive with a bunch of gears. There are three variants of them made, too, so which variant would be important to know. There are a number of final drive ratios available now. Does that complicate things? I guess it would have to be contained in the stock case. Or maybe they have already done the engineering from their first efforts, and all that is needed is to dust off the plans. It appears that the major concept is that a worm gear setup is a one-way deal, power doesn't go back into the worm very easily. Patented in 1958, inventor set up his own factory, and they are still in business, though bought out twice in the interim.
All those gears, it looks like a bridge too far.
Just looking at it, it looks to be pretty compact. Compact enough, I don't know.
Thanks again for your work. I believe that the more the benefits of the Torsen differential are appreciated, the more people would like to look at that LSD. It has been mentioned that there is a durable LSD available, fairly inexpensive for such a thing, that does work pretty well. However, if I know Jim K, he would want to make any Torsen also available through his shop.
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Limited Slip Differential - Helical Differential [message #247864 is a reply to message #247857] |
Sat, 19 April 2014 01:14 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Keith,
There's no problem getting a unit that will fit in our housing. It's
already been done. The unit for a nine inch Ford can be fitted quite
nicely. The problem comes when you try to put our big axle shafts in. The
housing is not
big enough to accommodate the shafts, nor do the internal gears accept our
shafts. Making new axles small enough and tough enough would be
prohibitively expensive, if possible. We gave up on the idea.
Gary Kosier
77 PB w/500 Cad
Newark. Oh
-----Original Message-----
From: Carey Bryan
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2014 11:38 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Limited Slip Differential - Helical Differential
Keith,
Thanks for your suggestion. A cursory search for the Torsen differential
reveals that it really enhances traction, the Audi Quattro and various
luxury vehicles use it because of its apparently superior characteristics,
transferring torque instantaneously to the wheel with better traction. It is
made now by JTEKT, a concern with a local presence to me. They are
committed to quality products down here. They assemble Toyota rack and
pinion steering assemblies in our town.
The Torsen is said to be better at cornering, but I suspect that won't be a
major concern. It is supposed to transfer more torque to the outside wheel
in a corner, where due to weight transfer, more traction is often available.
Torsen says it is built to last the life of the vehicle. That is a
considerable time for the GMC motorhome.
There are those of us who would like one, I think, if it proves out the way
it looks. If you need it, you would really appreciate it. Maybe the
implementation would only consist of machining the special carrier to fit
the "normal" ring gear, replacing the driveshafts, it is getting complicated
already. It looks to be pretty expensive with a bunch of gears. There
are three variants of them made, too, so which variant would be important to
know. There are a number of final drive ratios available now. Does that
complicate things? I guess it would have to be contained in the stock case.
Or maybe they have already done the engineering from their first efforts,
and all that is needed is to dust off the plans. It appears that the major
concept is that a worm gear setup is a one-way deal, power doesn't go back
into the worm very easily. Patented in 1958, inventor set up his own
factory, and they are still in business, though bought out twice in the
interim.
All those gears, it looks like a bridge too far.
Just looking at it, it looks to be pretty compact. Compact enough, I don't
know.
Thanks again for your work. I believe that the more the benefits of the
Torsen differential are appreciated, the more people would like to look at
that LSD. It has been mentioned that there is a durable LSD available,
fairly inexpensive for such a thing, that does work pretty well. However,
if I know Jim K, he would want to make any Torsen also available through his
shop.
Carey
--
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Limited Slip Differential - Helical Differential [message #247876 is a reply to message #247869] |
Sat, 19 April 2014 08:29 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Espen,
Correct.
JimK was working with an ARB Rep in the USA somewhere. He had Jim send him a GMC FD and was supposed to send it to ARB in Australia.
After waiting, waiting, waiting, AND WAITING nothing happened. I contacted the ARB's Engineering Director and spoke to him about it
and his comment was; "I have NO idea what you're talking about." Evidently the ARB rep in the USA had fed Jim a line of BS. I
explained to the ARB's ED what Jim was looking for and the quantities involved and he said ARB would not be interested.
I then found a small father and son shop in Melbourne that built locking diff's, sent them the 3.07 and they noted there wasn't
enough room in the housing for their setup.
JimK has found a company in the USA to build LSD's now so that's that!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Espen Heitmann
I guess you did talk to ARB Rob, and if it was possible for them to build one I would have bought it since it would have a on/off
switch.
And as I have said earlier, where I live a LSD, Locker or whatever on a FWD vehicle without manual control is a big no no.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Limited Slip Differential - Helical Differential [message #247886 is a reply to message #247843] |
Sat, 19 April 2014 10:24 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| KeithV wrote on Fri, 18 April 2014 20:17 |
I have been "lurking" the forums for awhile now, and have seen others inquire into the availability of a helical limited slip differential (lsd) with no avail. The helical lsd is also known as torsen/gleason differential.
...
Thank you and I look forward to hearing your feedback.
|
Wow, I was really confused I did not remember posting this!
Guess it wasn't Me, phew
The other Keith V
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: Limited Slip Differential - Helical Differential [message #247889 is a reply to message #247886] |
Sat, 19 April 2014 11:19 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Keith V wrote on Sat, 19 April 2014 09:24 |
| KeithV wrote on Fri, 18 April 2014 20:17 |
I have been "lurking" the forums for awhile now, and have seen others inquire into the availability of a helical limited slip differential (lsd) with no avail. The helical lsd is also known as torsen/gleason differential.
...
Thank you and I look forward to hearing your feedback.
|
Wow, I was really confused I did not remember posting this!
Guess it wasn't Me, phew
The other Keith V
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I seem to have many of those kind of posts 
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Limited Slip Differential - Helical Differential [message #247897 is a reply to message #247843] |
Sat, 19 April 2014 15:04 |
mrgmc3
Messages: 210
Registered: September 2013
Location: W Washington
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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It looks like we have a "Keith V" as well as a "KeithV". Note the space or lack of. KeithV you appear to be new. Please introduce yourself and add your vehicle and location into a signature.
Chris Geils - Twin Cities / W Wa
1978 26' Kingsley w/ very few mods; PD9040, aux trans cooler, one repaint in stock colors, R134a, Al rad, Alcoas, 54k mi
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| Re: Limited Slip Differential - Helical Differential [message #247927 is a reply to message #247897] |
Sat, 19 April 2014 18:58 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| mrgmc3 wrote on Sat, 19 April 2014 14:04 |
It looks like we have a "Keith V" as well as a "KeithV". Note the space or lack of. KeithV you appear to be new. Please introduce yourself and add your vehicle and location into a signature.
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OMG I have bared my soul to the wrong person !!
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Limited Slip Differential - Helical Differential [message #248147 is a reply to message #247927] |
Tue, 22 April 2014 02:23 |
KeithV
Messages: 4
Registered: March 2013
Location: Beaverton, OR
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Keith V - sorry for any confusion 
I too have been blessed with the first name of Keith and last name of V...
We, my wife and I, are proud owners of a 1976 Palm Beach. It had been sitting for 8+ years before we purchased last year, but it is a tough old beast and recently passed DEQ with a bit of work. The numbers were close, so I may rebuild the carb to make sure it passes next time.
As for the LSD, I've spoken further with the shop and they informed me of the following:
"minimum order quantity is 10 units, with price around US$749.95 per unit inc free shipping (final price can only be determined after I've seen the OEM sample, but from looking at images online, it's a general size/shape). This also comes with our Lifetime Warranty, even if used on the track."
The only problem I'm running into now is they need one of the OEM open differentials to get the dimensions and I don't want to take apart my unit for them to hold onto (summer is just around the corner and we are preparing to take her out for the first camping trips with us). So, if anyone has an extra differential in the Portland, OR area and would be willing to sell/loan it out for them to get measurements please contact me.
-Keith
Beaverton, OR
1976 GMC Palm Beach
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| Re: Limited Slip Differential - Helical Differential [message #248157 is a reply to message #248147] |
Tue, 22 April 2014 08:13 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| KeithV wrote on Tue, 22 April 2014 03:23 |
Keith V - sorry for any confusion
I too have been blessed with the first name of Keith and last name of V...
We, my wife and I, are proud owners of a 1976 Palm Beach. It had been sitting for 8+ years before we purchased last year, but it is a tough old beast and recently passed DEQ with a bit of work. The numbers were close, so I may rebuild the carb to make sure it passes next time.
As for the LSD, I've spoken further with the shop and they informed me of the following:
"minimum order quantity is 10 units, with price around US$749.95 per unit inc free shipping (final price can only be determined after I've seen the OEM sample, but from looking at images online, it's a general size/shape). This also comes with our Lifetime Warranty, even if used on the track."
The only problem I'm running into now is they need one of the OEM open differentials to get the dimensions and I don't want to take apart my unit for them to hold onto (summer is just around the corner and we are preparing to take her out for the first camping trips with us). So, if anyone has an extra differential in the Portland, OR area and would be willing to sell/loan it out for them to get measurements please contact me.
-Keith
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Keith and DW,
Welcome to group, family, cult, asylum.
You could do yourself and the rest of us a favor by going into the control panel and setting up a sigfile that has: Your real name, a coach description (including significant mods) and a geographic reference. These will all make a difference in the future assistance this group can offer.
You will soon discover that you are now part of a community that is like few others. It is much like the world of waterman that I am from, that is why I like to greet new people and coaches as a new owner or vessel would be in that world. So,
May the Good Lord bless this coach and all those that set forth within her.
Welcome Keith and ?
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Limited Slip Differential - Helical Differential [message #248259 is a reply to message #248253] |
Wed, 23 April 2014 00:56 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Our final drive cse is so narrow, all the manufactures did not want to
tackle it.
The engine block and the rotation direction limits one to go one way, and
that is why we were not able to make a wider case to utilize various
limited slip units.
Count me in for few if you figure it out.
We have sold over 3k combination of 3.55/3.70/4.10 units to the
GMC community.
Most of the credit goes to the GMC shops, as they all market them for us.
On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 10:35 PM, Larry Engelbrecht
<lengelbrecht@sandi.net>wrote:
>
>
> The Vector used a Gleason brand worm gear LSD.
> --
> Larry Engelbrecht
>
> San Diego, CA
>
> '73 26' ex-Glacier
>
> TZE063V100319 03/07/73
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
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jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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