Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution
| [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution [message #246597] |
Sun, 06 April 2014 21:28  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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When I arrived home today I found Johnny and Stick happily at work, despite
the pouring rain, on the installation of Stick's Manny Brakes.
While saying "Hello" after having been gone to Sun'n'Fun, I got suckered
into the project, just a little. They were having a heck of a time getting
the hub apart after having removed the center wheel disc brakes installed a
LONG time ago by Bill Telgen (who was "Mr. Hydraulic Wiper Motor").
Needing a tool I didn't have, they went to find one and some lunch. Later,
I visited with them again, only to find them making no progress. My best
solution, after trying several, such as it was, involved an angle grinder,
wielded by Johnny.
Only after considerable damage was done to the hub fittings, I suddenly
realized that something just didn't look right and began asking questions
-- and getting no answers i could understand.
Finally turned out that those middle discs apparently came from Leigh
Harrison and have either entirely different than OEM, or seriously modified
OEM, hubs! The 13" or so discs he uses do not fit on the OEM hubs as do
the Cadillac discs we usually use.
PANIC TIME!!! Where can we get hubs & bearings?
Guess what: 3 cardboard boxes in my Sea-Land container were long ago
marked "Rear Hub". :-)
They look good and so do the several used sets of bearings I found, along
with the new pair of seals I bought from Dave Lenzi at Branson. Maybe
Stick's GMC won't be a permanent resident of my rack after all. Unless he
can't come up with my outrageous charge for those solid gold parts!
The moral of the story is, be SURE you know what you've got before you
start modifying so you can be sure you've got all the right parts. No way
for any supplier to anticipate your configuration.
Copies of this are going to Manny and Karen, so a caution will probably
appear in the manual eventually.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution [message #246622 is a reply to message #246597] |
Mon, 07 April 2014 07:55  |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Not having experience with different systems, I was just gonna get the dam' thing off, so we could mount the spacer and the new disc. It >might< have been possible, since the stud plate portion of the hub was unchanged, and the fitted bearings mated with the stock spindle. After a couple of days messing with it. Maybe.
In retrospect, the 9MM hex cap screws holding it together, tack welded in place, should of been a red flag.
I highly recommend Stick and Elise's hospitality, it must be experienced to be appreciated. And Ken has the best equipped shop I've seen this side of Mack's where I worked as a young sprat (Mack's Aircraft Engine).
Ken, Mack's daughter wound the business up in 1998, you might could get the mill, align boring machine, cylinder honing machine, and the big welders from her. One more container out back and you could scratch manufacture engines.....
--johnny
'76 23' tranmsmode norris
Braselton, GA
________________________________
From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
To: gmclist <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Cc: Karen <kdpotato@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2014 10:28 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution
When I arrived home today I found Johnny and Stick happily at work, despite
the pouring rain, on the installation of Stick's Manny Brakes.
Only after considerable damage was done to the hub fittings, I suddenly
realized that something just didn't look right and began asking questions
-- and getting no answers i could understand.
Finally turned out that those middle discs apparently came from Leigh
Harrison and have either entirely different than OEM, or seriously modified
OEM, hubs! The 13" or so discs he uses do not fit on the OEM hubs as do
the Cadillac discs we usually use.
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution [message #246624 is a reply to message #246597] |
Mon, 07 April 2014 08:17 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505
Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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So what will become of the leftover Harrison brake parts? If you weren't so far away i'd be interested in them to tinker with. Perhaps someone near by will want them.
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
On Apr 6, 2014, at 10:28 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:
When I arrived home today I found Johnny and Stick happily at work, despite
the pouring rain, on the installation of Stick's Manny Brakes.
While saying "Hello" after having been gone to Sun'n'Fun, I got suckered
into the project, just a little. They were having a heck of a time getting
the hub apart after having removed the center wheel disc brakes installed a
LONG time ago by Bill Telgen (who was "Mr. Hydraulic Wiper Motor").
Needing a tool I didn't have, they went to find one and some lunch. Later,
I visited with them again, only to find them making no progress. My best
solution, after trying several, such as it was, involved an angle grinder,
wielded by Johnny.
Only after considerable damage was done to the hub fittings, I suddenly
realized that something just didn't look right and began asking questions
-- and getting no answers i could understand.
Finally turned out that those middle discs apparently came from Leigh
Harrison and have either entirely different than OEM, or seriously modified
OEM, hubs! The 13" or so discs he uses do not fit on the OEM hubs as do
the Cadillac discs we usually use.
PANIC TIME!!! Where can we get hubs & bearings?
Guess what: 3 cardboard boxes in my Sea-Land container were long ago
marked "Rear Hub". :-)
They look good and so do the several used sets of bearings I found, along
with the new pair of seals I bought from Dave Lenzi at Branson. Maybe
Stick's GMC won't be a permanent resident of my rack after all. Unless he
can't come up with my outrageous charge for those solid gold parts!
The moral of the story is, be SURE you know what you've got before you
start modifying so you can be sure you've got all the right parts. No way
for any supplier to anticipate your configuration.
Copies of this are going to Manny and Karen, so a caution will probably
appear in the manual eventually.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution [message #246640 is a reply to message #246624] |
Mon, 07 April 2014 09:59 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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They're Stick's, he would probably let go of them. The hub we went to work on is pretty butchered up where \it bolts to the outer half, the outer half is good. The other is unmolested. Both discs are good. Calipers and caliper mounting plates are good.
--johnny
________________________________
From: Les Burt <gmc.les@gmail.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 7, 2014 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution
So what will become of the leftover Harrison brake parts? If you weren't so far away i'd be interested in them to tinker with. Perhaps someone near by will want them.
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
On Apr 6, 2014, at 10:28 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:
When I arrived home today I found Johnny and Stick happily at work, despite
the pouring rain, on the installation of Stick's Manny Brakes.
While saying "Hello" after having been gone to Sun'n'Fun, I got suckered
into the project, just a little. They were having a heck of a time getting
the hub apart after having removed the center wheel disc brakes installed a
LONG time ago by Bill Telgen (who was "Mr. Hydraulic Wiper Motor").
Needing a tool I didn't have, they went to find one and some lunch. Later,
I visited with them again, only to find them making no progress. My best
solution, after trying several, such as it was, involved an angle grinder,
wielded by Johnny.
Only after considerable damage was done to the hub fittings, I suddenly
realized that something just didn't look right and began asking questions
-- and getting no answers i could understand.
Finally turned out that those middle discs apparently came from Leigh
Harrison and have either entirely different than OEM, or seriously modified
OEM, hubs! The 13" or so discs he uses do not fit on the OEM hubs as do
the Cadillac discs we usually use.
PANIC TIME!!! Where can we get hubs & bearings?
Guess what: 3 cardboard boxes in my Sea-Land container were long ago
marked "Rear Hub". :-)
They look good and so do the several used sets of bearings I found, along
with the new pair of seals I bought from Dave Lenzi at Branson. Maybe
Stick's GMC won't be a permanent resident of my rack after all. Unless he
can't come up with my outrageous charge for those solid gold parts!
The moral of the story is, be SURE you know what you've got before you
start modifying so you can be sure you've got all the right parts. No way
for any supplier to anticipate your configuration.
Copies of this are going to Manny and Karen, so a caution will probably
appear in the manual eventually.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution [message #246652 is a reply to message #246640] |
Mon, 07 April 2014 11:45 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Even the "butchered" hub is not really all that bad. The two parts of the
hub were assembled with 8 each 3/8" socket head botts. Johnnny had gotten
some of the heads cut off when I realized what the situation was. A good
welder can easily weld those locations so they'll never be a problem.
Functionally, nothing was damaged.
Stick will certainly be glad to sell the complete 2-wheel set for a
reasonable price. He's out working on the coach now. He can post
something at his leisure -- none of which he'll have for a couple of days.
I know he'll be glad when the rain stops, supposedly this afternoon. I
have a good shelter -- with a high roof and no walls. Not ideal in heavy
blowing rain.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Johnny Bridges wrote:
> They're Stick's, he would probably let go of them. The hub we went to
> work on is pretty butchered up where \it bolts to the outer half, the
> outer half is good. The other is unmolested. Both discs are good.
> Calipers and caliper mounting plates are good.
>
> --johnny
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Les Burt
> So what will become of the leftover Harrison brake parts? If you weren't
> so far away i'd be interested in them to tinker with. Perhaps someone near
> by will want them.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution [message #246664 is a reply to message #246652] |
Mon, 07 April 2014 13:44 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
|
Senior Member |
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|
Yes, it's weldable. If I were welding it, I think I'd bolt it up nice and tight to an old brake drum just to keep anything from warping. Everything else in the kit needs only cleaning.
--johnny
________________________________
From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
To: gmclist <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 7, 2014 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution
Even the "butchered" hub is not really all that bad. The two parts of the
hub were assembled with 8 each 3/8" socket head botts. Johnnny had gotten
some of the heads cut off when I realized what the situation was. A good
welder can easily weld those locations so they'll never be a problem.
Functionally, nothing was damaged.
Stick will certainly be glad to sell the complete 2-wheel set for a
reasonable price. He's out working on the coach now. He can post
something at his leisure -- none of which he'll have for a couple of days.
I know he'll be glad when the rain stops, supposedly this afternoon. I
have a good shelter -- with a high roof and no walls. Not ideal in heavy
blowing rain.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Johnny Bridges wrote:
> They're Stick's, he would probably let go of them. The hub we went to
> work on is pretty butchered up where \it bolts to the outer half, the
> outer half is good. The other is unmolested. Both discs are good.
> Calipers and caliper mounting plates are good.
>
> --johnny
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Les Burt
> So what will become of the leftover Harrison brake parts? If you weren't
> so far away i'd be interested in them to tinker with. Perhaps someone near
> by will want them.
>
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution [message #246696 is a reply to message #246683] |
Mon, 07 April 2014 18:07 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| A Hamilto wrote on Mon, 07 April 2014 16:27 |
| Larry wrote on Mon, 07 April 2014 15:08 |
Another option is to keep the Harrison disc on the 2nd axle, 15/16' WC and drum on rear, and then pressure Jimmy K to finish up the design and marketing of the reaction arm system for the Harrison set-up. It's what I'm waiting for... JMHO
|
I would be surprised to see that happen. The market is so small, by the time he pays for the systen design, and then assembly of kits, plus overhead and profit, you will pay more than if you just buy two spindles from Jim K and a disk reaction arm kit from Manny and the ancillary parts from your local parts house.
The only two reasons for waiting would be lack of funds and/or you are satisfied with the system you have.
|
I wouldn't poo...poo it to quick. There are a lot of Harrison kits out there, and if it is just a matter of re-engineering the Drum reaction arm system to work with the Harrison disc's, may not be to big of a problem. I personally like the big 12" disc on the mid axle, and feel that it with the reaction arm could be a darn good upgrade for those of us that have the Harrison set-up. JMHO
Larry 
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution [message #246704 is a reply to message #246701] |
Mon, 07 April 2014 19:38 |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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After 3 days of pulling wrenches and pulling muscles I feel like I've been loading pulpwood. We're back on track now but not without some rough spots. Johnny is a perfect guest. We have a creaky old house and...not a peep of complaint about it. I also didn't have his bourbon of choice, but he "made do."
Glad Ken made it home to show me the error of my ways. We'll get 'r done in the next day or so.
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution [message #246706 is a reply to message #246704] |
Mon, 07 April 2014 19:47 |
 |
ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Stick,
The tone of your message reminds me of the conversation my friend Jose had with an Irishman named Patrick. Jose said something about doing a task "manana." Not necessarily tomorrow, but sometime. Patrick said that they have a term very much like "manana" in Ireland, but without that burning sense of urgency.
It sounds like you'll get 'er done in a few...
Larry Davick
Fremont, California
A Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stick Miller" <stickmiller@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, April 7, 2014 5:38:02 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution
After 3 days of pulling wrenches and pulling muscles I feel like I've been loading pulpwood. We're back on track now but not without some rough spots. Johnny is a perfect guest. We have a creaky old house and...not a peep of complaint about it. I also didn't have his bourbon of choice, but he "made do."
Glad Ken made it home to show me the error of my ways. We'll get 'r done in the next day or so.
--
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie"
Americus, Georgia
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution [message #246708 is a reply to message #246704] |
Mon, 07 April 2014 19:50 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I challenge Stick to post some pictures of the 'creaky' guest room. And note, the 'make do' was a bottle of Wild Turkey reserve batch signed by the master distiller. I can get by on that any time. And his dogs are lovely friendly little girls. Ken's shop and ramp are simply amazing.
--johnny
________________________________
From: Stick Miller <stickmiller@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, April 7, 2014 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution
After 3 days of pulling wrenches and pulling muscles I feel like I've been loading pulpwood. We're back on track now but not without some rough spots. Johnny is a perfect guest. We have a creaky old house and...not a peep of complaint about it. I also didn't have his bourbon of choice, but he "made do."
Glad Ken made it home to show me the error of my ways. We'll get 'r done in the next day or so.
--
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie"
Americus, Georgia
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
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|
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| Re: [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution [message #246712 is a reply to message #246708] |
Mon, 07 April 2014 20:05 |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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We had and continue to have a good time. I have no regrets about this most sensible upgrade. Today, the reaction arm...next year, the one ton. Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution [message #246724 is a reply to message #246719] |
Mon, 07 April 2014 21:14 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Here's the way I understand the system to work from the cross section and write up from the MM.
The cross section of the combination valve shows that pressure supplied from the master cylinder is sent directly to the rear
brakes.
Pressure supplied from the master cylinder cannot go to the front brakes until it overcomes the force applied by the spring to the
valve which is 130 psi.
I don't see what difference what kind of brakes are on the rear.
If you have four wheel cylinders the valve opens at 130 psi.
If you have two wheel cylinders and two calipers the valve opens at 130 psi.
If you have four calipers the valve opens at 130 psi.
The amount of rear braking force applied to the tires by each one of the "systems" above will be different, however, it doesn't
matter at 130 psi isn't enough to lock up the wheels.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of A.
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2014 11:50 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Manny Brakes Caution
How is the valve supposed to behave with disks and drums mixed in the rear?
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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