Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Electrical requirements questions - Newbie
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| Re: Electrical requirements questions - Newbie [message #245159 is a reply to message #245147] |
Wed, 26 March 2014 10:49   |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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Senior Member |
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| RandyM wrote on Wed, 26 March 2014 09:45 |
I am new to the whole RV experience, and looking to update/upgrade the 1978 Royale that I purchased. It is pretty much a blank slate, so the directions are boundless.
First question:
Assuming "boon-docking" was not an expectation, and if done would be accompanied with an external portable generator. Compressor type A/C a must, given I live in south/central Texas and the coast would be a common destination.
1. Would a bank of 4 to 6 quality deep cycle 12 volt batteries plus the house battery up front, be ample to run accessories and A/C unit while traveling?
2. Would some solar panels for in-route and passive charging be needed?
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The only way a battery bank will power an air conditioner for any length of time would be if you remove everything (furniture, fixtures, etc.) and load the GMC to GVW with batteries.
Likewise, you would have to have enough solar cells to cover the roof 6 - 8 times to run an AC off solar.
If you don't have a generator, or don't want to run the generator to power the roof air when going down the road, you want to get a second evaporator for the chassis (dash) AC installed in the living area.
The biggest practical battery bank for a GMC will power a small air conditioner for 45 minutes to an hour and a half. Then it will need to be recharged. That will take hours, longer if you want to do it with solar panels.
People have reduced their electrical load to allow solar dry camping to work, but only when the air conditioner is taken out of the equation. If you can live without air conditioning, you can probably set it up so that you don't need to use a generator at all.
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| Re: Electrical requirements questions - Newbie [message #245164 is a reply to message #245147] |
Wed, 26 March 2014 11:08 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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You'll want to read the current thread "Solar panel updates" - lots of good stuff there for you.
I think you're asking "can I get by and run my A/C off batteries while driving".
My quick answer would be "not really", but it depends on a host of variables.
1) Current drain for your A/C unit(s)
2) Total capacity of battery bank
3) Efficiency of your inverter (assuming you're running 120VAC roof units)
4) Duration of time you'd be running the A/C units
5) Output of your alternator and solar panels while driving, minus other electrical loads (like headlights).
You could get all those variables, and it would be a relatively simple thing to calculate just how long you COULD run on batteries, with the alternator and solar cells working to make up the difference. But, if I'm reading your "mission statement" correctly, you're not planning on boondocking, so the massive house battery bank would be there only to run your A/C while you're driving... which sounds like a long, hard way to get there. I'm thinking it would be a lot simpler in the long run to just have a generator big enough to run your rooftop A/C unit(s) and call it a day...
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: Electrical requirements questions - Newbie [message #245213 is a reply to message #245186] |
Wed, 26 March 2014 15:28 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Use your Onan going down the road. Easiest and no additional weight. If your Onan is toast, replace it with a (fill in the blank) generator, with 3.5 kw of power to run one overhead A/C.
Small Honda 2 kw will not start the typical overhead A/C reliability. Jim Bounds is working on paralleling two in the original gen compartment, but he reports various fits and starts to this solution, mainly remote starting, fuel delivery, and cooling the genset. These may be solved given time and money.
Some have disassembled cheap gensets for components to do a homemade genset in the small GMC compartment. Noisy and fuel delivery problems.
Onan Emerald can fit, and should easily drive one A/C.
Best solution is the discontinued Honda ev6010. A bit hard to find, but do the required job easily. Ask the man who owns one.
Tom, MS II, powered with Honda ev6010
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: Electrical requirements questions - Newbie [message #245260 is a reply to message #245147] |
Wed, 26 March 2014 19:59 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| RandyM wrote on Wed, 26 March 2014 10:45 |
I am new to the whole RV experience, and looking to update/upgrade the 1978 Royale that I purchased. It is pretty much a blank slate, so the directions are boundless.
First question:
Assuming "boon-docking" was not an expectation, and if done would be accompanied with an external portable generator. Compressor type A/C a must, given I live in south/central Texas and the coast would be a common destination.
1. Would a bank of 4 to 6 quality deep cycle 12 volt batteries plus the house battery up front, be ample to run accessories and A/C unit while traveling?
2. Would some solar panels for in-route and passive charging be needed?
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Randy,
Start with a spreadsheet and use it to match the loads you want to manage with the energy available.
There is a group member that has done a masterful job of going to minimal power consumption with solar and wind as the recharge, but his big change was a swamp cooler. While many applaud his effort (including yours truly) we also realize that he has created a coach that can have a very limited geographic range.
This is THE problem with solar. Some that spent time in Hawaii and the Philippines may believe that solar is a reliable power source, the fact is that much of the country is just not that good for such. Even wind power (I am a sailor after all) is just not that easy to use for much (other than racing boats).
So, figure out what you what or need and what it will take to do it. This can be done, if you are willing to give up some things.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Electrical requirements questions - Newbie [message #245305 is a reply to message #245147] |
Thu, 27 March 2014 05:59 |
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RandyM
Messages: 58
Registered: December 2013
Location: San Antonio, TX
Karma: 0
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Thanks for the replies, you have answered my primary question; Do I need generator power while traveling from AC power at home to my destination and the shore power provided there?
To answer some of the questions:
The dash a/c is currently not working, not sure if it is a fan issue (fuse, switch) or more extensive.
The single roof a/c is a Coleman, still need to hook up power to the coach to evaluate the condition of that one.
I actually have two Onan 6k generators, one mounted in the coach, the other loose, plus numerous parts. I am sure there is at least one working generator in that equation.
I am not opposed to retaining the Onan and using it for travel and even the occasional boon-docking, was really just wandering if it was needed for the actual travel.
Like I said before the coach is pretty much a blank slate, so I am exploring options.
There are a number of upgrades to the running gear already, but "brakes" will be my first "running" update. Thinking booster, aux. vacuum, 80mm Frt, and the wider shoe kit for the intermediate. I was not impressed with the stopping power on the drive home, but I am sure that could be improved with just a standard "brake job".
Then I will start on the interior driving items including the dash a/c.
After that, electrical power.
Finally, interior refurbish/remodel.
I should be around for awhile.
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| Re: Electrical requirements questions - Newbie [message #245306 is a reply to message #245305] |
Thu, 27 March 2014 07:19 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Consider installing Duracool in your dash air. Big improvement over R12 Or R134. Three cans should do it. Search site for detailed instructions.
Do not expect dash air to do more than cool driver and passenger area. It will not cool the coach. Adding an auxiliary unit will improve your results.
Texas and cooling can be a challenge.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electrical requirements questions - Newbie [message #245311 is a reply to message #245307] |
Thu, 27 March 2014 08:19 |
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Anonymous
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"You are going about it right, safety items first on the list."
N`umber 1. - Get a 2 1/2 gallon foam refillable, pressurized extinguisher. Better still, get two or three.
Get 'coldfire' or 'FireADE200 and add it to it.
When your antifreeze, fuel or oil lines burst and spray all over the hot engine, you will be glad you did.
On Thursday, March 27, 2014 8:37 AM, Jim Galbavy <j.galbavy@att.net> wrote:
>
>Randy,
>You are going about it right, safety items first on the list.
>If your refer is a two or three way (110V/propane/12V) you will not need the generator unless you want to run your roof a/c while on the road. Being in Texas, you may want to do that even if the dash a/c is working. Having only one roof a/c (I do too) it is important to having it able to work like it should at home, on the road and at were ever you are going.
>Once you get the generator working it is important to run it about once a month with a full load. Crank up the roof a/c to do that. It will help both. I replaced my Onan 11 years ago with a Honda EV6010 (like TomP). Great running generator if your Onans are toast.
>
>jim galbavy
>'73 x-CL ANNIE
>Lake Mary, FL
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| Re: Electrical requirements questions - Newbie [message #245328 is a reply to message #245147] |
Thu, 27 March 2014 11:40 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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in my opinion:
I would hope your 78 newer dash A/C running off engine would keep the interior cool while running down the road. If not, spend the money on an aux evaporator.
then while traveling you should have no battery drain issues, everything should charge off your alternator fine.
When parked, you will have to do some spendy or drastic upgrades to run the roof air conditioning off battery power. Unless possibly low humidity levels might allow for use of a swamp cooler. I think you will have to run a generator to run roof A/C while parked.
if you do not need A/C while parked, LED lighting, propane fridge, and not alot of solar will keep you going, unless the sun is not shining, with about any battery setup. More other accessories(microwave, TV's, fans ect..), you can add batterys and solar, to balance those needs out. It will also depend on how long you plan to boondock. Keep in mind if you run the Generator for A/C, you will be charging batteries as well.
I know that If I had a propane fridge, I could stay unplugged indefinitely if the weather is average, with my 65 watt solar, 2 golf cart batteries. My solar charges the batteries back up to what was used for lighting, waterpump, and cell phone charging during the day.
With my two 6 volt golf cart batteries, and 65 watts solar, I can go 36 - 48 hours before my batteries are drained out, If my 12 volt fridge is running. 24-36 hours with the fridge and furnace going.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Electrical requirements questions - Newbie [message #245334 is a reply to message #245147] |
Thu, 27 March 2014 12:51 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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| RandyM wrote on Wed, 26 March 2014 07:45 |
I am new to the whole RV experience, and looking to update/upgrade the 1978 Royale that I purchased. It is pretty much a blank slate, so the directions are boundless.
First question:
Assuming "boon-docking" was not an expectation, and if done would be accompanied with an external portable generator. Compressor type A/C a must, given I live in south/central Texas and the coast would be a common destination.
1. Would a bank of 4 to 6 quality deep cycle 12 volt batteries plus the house battery up front, be ample to run accessories and A/C unit while traveling?
2. Would some solar panels for in-route and passive charging be needed?
|
Just my opinions and what we do:
Our coach was not set up for dry camping at all. It had the original all electric Norcold fridge in it, and the buzz box converter. The only electrical upgrades were two 6-V golf cart batteries, in series, and several fluorescent light fixtures.
I have since replaced the fridge with a three-way:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5863-norcold-refrigerator-installation.html
Installed a small solar system to charge the batteries:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6227-solar-battery-charging.html
Converted all the lights we use to LEDs:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5703-led-lighting.html
and added a small inverter.
I have yet to address the hot water issue, but that is coming.
I would not like to be without the Onan or an adequate generator to run 115v accessories, including the roof air conditioners. I really don't like having to run it, but I love having that option. We most often use it while on the road to help keep the interior cool while traveling in hot weather.
Our solar system keeps up with the 12v power we use during the day, plus charges the batteries back to full from night time power usage. We can easily dry camp for a three day or longer weekend without having to fire up the Onan, except for hot water.
Unlike the guy with the evaporative cooler, we seldom camp without hook-ups, in the summer. When we do, it usually cools down enough to not need any cooling at night and we have other things going on during the day. We HAVE used a small (2KW) portable inverter generator in the past, but find it un-necessary most times. As Jon stated, if your dash air is not up to the task of keeping you cool, run the Onan while driving and turn on the roof air.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Electrical requirements questions - Newbie [message #245360 is a reply to message #245305] |
Thu, 27 March 2014 16:07 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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Senior Member |
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| RandyM wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 05:59 |
...There are a number of upgrades to the running gear already, but "brakes" will be my first "running" update. Thinking booster, aux. vacuum, 80mm Frt, and the wider shoe kit for the intermediate. I was not impressed with the stopping power on the drive home, but I am sure that could be improved with just a standard "brake job". ...
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When refurbished to stock specs, the OEM system will stop as good as when it rolled off the assembly line.
HOWEVER, if you can scrape up $998.95 plus shipping from Fremont, CA, a drum/drum reaction arm kit will enable the rear wheels to contribute to a panic stop. If that keeps you from rear-ending a clueless donkey hole that stops short in front of you, it will pay for itself in one stop. Watch the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1peHuX6NpH0&feature=youtu.be
http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/1285
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| Re: Electrical requirements questions - Newbie [message #302483 is a reply to message #245159] |
Tue, 21 June 2016 14:27 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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Senior Member |
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A Hamilto wrote on Wed, 26 March 2014 10:49RandyM wrote on Wed, 26 March 2014 09:45I am new to the whole RV experience, and looking to update/upgrade the 1978 Royale that I purchased. It is pretty much a blank slate, so the directions are boundless.
First question:
Assuming "boon-docking" was not an expectation, and if done would be accompanied with an external portable generator. Compressor type A/C a must, given I live in south/central Texas and the coast would be a common destination.
1. Would a bank of 4 to 6 quality deep cycle 12 volt batteries plus the house battery up front, be ample to run accessories and A/C unit while traveling?
2. Would some solar panels for in-route and passive charging be needed? The only way a battery bank will power an air conditioner for any length of time would be if you remove everything (furniture, fixtures, etc.) and load the GMC to GVW with batteries.
Likewise, you would have to have enough solar cells to cover the roof 6 - 8 times to run an AC off solar.
If you don't have a generator, or don't want to run the generator to power the roof air when going down the road, you want to get a second evaporator for the chassis (dash) AC installed in the living area.
The biggest practical battery bank for a GMC will power a small air conditioner for 45 minutes to an hour and a half. Then it will need to be recharged. That will take hours, longer if you want to do it with solar panels.
People have reduced their electrical load to allow solar dry camping to work, but only when the air conditioner is taken out of the equation. If you can live without air conditioning, you can probably set it up so that you don't need to use a generator at all. I am going to backpeddle just a wee bit on this one. I was looking at those 12 and 24V cab ACs that truckers use to keep from idling while overnighting. The one I looked at was 12000 BTUs and 850 watts. No inverter needed. So, IN THEORY, it would only take four 240W panels to keep one of those running during the day. BUT, you would need to coat the part of the roof not covered in solar panels with something to reflect heat and sun. You would need to remove the interior, insulate all the walls and ceiling with closed cell R-7 per inch spray foam, and tint the windows with a good low-e coating material. Then put the interior back in. It still would take a big battery bank to run overnight, and you would need twice as many panels. If you park in the shade and put the solar panels in the sun and run arc welder cable from the panels back to the charge controller, it would stay cooler in the RV. But if you don't stay put and keep an eye on your stuff, it will likely walk away if you are not the only campers in the area.
And it would still take a lot of battery to run overnight, unless it doesn't cycle very much at all. A 24V unit would draw more than 35A running. A 24V 100AH battery bank would run it less than three hours. Four fully charged Trojan T-105s would run that AC about 4 hours, maybe. If it takes two of them to keep your RV cool, I go back to my original argument. You don't have enough roof and/or storage for all the solar panels and batteries you would need.
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| Re: Electrical requirements questions - Newbie [message #302485 is a reply to message #245147] |
Tue, 21 June 2016 15:31 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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If you have an Onan, use it. You're going to find a single roof unit is marginal during the sunshine on an asphalt parking lot, but it is bearable. Going down the road, run the Onan and the roof unit and the dash unit. If the Onan isn't fixable (most are) you can buy expensive or cheap. Cheap you have to install, but if you're mechanically inclined it isn't hard to do. The mentioned Honda gensets are like a BMW or Mercedes - beautifully put together and work well, but expensive to fix and complex (they're water cooled) and carry a premium price for the name. I'm gonna show Phipps the fuel solution for contractor sets, it's neither complex nor expensive. Ten dollars in parts. The heathen chinese set is $550 new from Harbor Freight and perhaps another 50 or so in hardware and lines to install it. If you are not mechanically inclined, I don't recommend this course of action. I have a 7500 Watt set, Ken Henderson has a smaller Troy - Built (also heathen chinee) which is a bit easier fit. In both instances, the smallest available with an electric self-commencer. I'd recommend either over a portable, once installed they're way less trouble and you can use them running down the road. If you don't mind a 'yanker cranker' the selection expands and the price drops. Here's how I did it:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6827-new-genset.html
I still have the Generac I took out, it's in the pictures. I'll demonstrate it starting, running, and taking rated load if you want it, for a reasonable price. Small and an easy fit. No warranty, express or implied, and if it works you're better off with the Onan. Confused now? Good 
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Electrical requirements questions - Newbie [message #302488 is a reply to message #302483] |
Tue, 21 June 2016 16:12 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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There is a method that could be used if someone had the desire but it wouldn't be cheap. You could install a large (250 amp or so) alternator, a 2500 watt or so inverter and a large battery bank and you could run the air that way. Mounting the alternator would be a challenge as well as finding space for the battery bank which would probably need to be in the 800 amp hr range or so or they would cook themselves with the large current draws. The 120 volt A/C will pull at least 150 amps (12 volt) running so solar is pretty much a non starter, IMHO. Anyway, everyone to their own methods.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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