Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Trip report (To Montgomery O'Reilly's and Back)
| Trip report [message #245106] |
Tue, 25 March 2014 21:27  |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Trip report #1 -
Finally got going Saturday about noon. We planned to drive the 78 Royale with Cadillac 500, sequential EFI, from Ennis, Texas south of Dallas, to the Montgomery, Texas GMCMCI rally near Houston, a distance of 170 miles. Had been having trouble and questionable things with reference to the Cadillac 500 and its purple rockers. I also had 125 psi in one cylinder, see "Cad 500 cold compression" thread.
Taking Espen, who drove a strange coach 500 km, some of it in the snow, as an inspiration, I thought I should give it a try. Fuel leaks repaired, black tank almost fully repaired, gray tank largely repaired, off we went.
We're looking to put some miles on the engine thanks to Ken Burton's recommendation. He said maybe to run it for a while to see if any carbon particle gets blown out from underneath the valve.
This coach has a 3.42 final drive differential and runs about 2900 rpm at 70 and it is honestly difficult to keep it below 70, though there is a feeling of a slight miss, and this didn't improve or get worse as the almost 340 miles unwound. We went south on I-45 toward Houston, 167 miles away. Coach ran well, but was very slightly noisy, as I saw one of the mufflers was well and truly ballooned from a backfire, which I can't recall, your Honor. It has that long stroke feeling of easy running that I think I can imagine. Little oil use, but the tappet sound didn't change at idle; it didn't go away or get worse. It now appears that this engine was a Potter build, Soddy-Daisy, Tennessee. Ran at 43 - 50 psi oil pressure throughout. Less at idle, 25 - 30. The idle is higher as I added to the idle speed because it died a few days ago going into my driveway. I think it was the steering pump taking energy at the same time as it idled that caused the dying. It didn't die throughout the trip.
But, all this concern about the "go" side of the equation caused a karmic imbalance on the "stop" side. About 75 miles down the freeway, the brakes suddenly started to quit and then got worse fast. The combination valve is "supposed" to travel to the other end of its travel when there's a leak in one circuit, and save the remaining good parts of the brake circuit. My experience was that everything went at once. It was getting late afternoon. I had topped off the brake fluid with DOT 3 synthetic fluid, and of course I thought I had caused the master cylinder to fail by putting incompatible fluid in. I had heard of jelling the mixture, but that is mixing DOT 5 with DOT 3, or so I have been told. I assumed the most recent thing done was the cause of the problem. Not so, a common mistake. Since both circuits were affected, I thought that the synthetic fluid had destroyed the o-rings. I have the P-30 style master cylinder with 80mm front discs and the middle bogie has the Leigh Harrison big disc setup. Drum brake rear bogies with the parking brake hooked up to that. I was proceeding along that line of inquiry with the incompatible fluid theory, though the panic induced by having no brakes and your wife sitting next to you didn't help the thought process.
Got to Montgomery by judicious use of second and first gear, and neutral. I got some very little brake at the very limit of pedal travel. Not enough to hold the coach against in-gear creep, but the drill was to get into second, get into first gear, hit the brake after shifting into neutral. It would then hold. Limped in to the Rally, and it was great to get there. People were the greatest. Experts told me that I didn't err by putting the synthetic fluid in. Paul Doane, M.D. from Nova Scotia had his
Smart car and put it and himself at my disposal. Sunday afternoon was spent in mounting his P30 spare cylinder on my coach and discovering that on the passenger middle bogie, the hard steel brake line to the Leigh Harrison caliper broke in two right at the fitting on the caliper. The postulate is that vibration and movement of the suspension caused fatigue. Dave Lenzi was there and up to his eyebrows in repairing others coaches and since mine got there on Saturday, he was involved fully. He did a great presentation today on the braking systems.
Never fear, Paul took me to O'Reilly's and I bought a quart of brake fluid, and a ready made steel brake line. Paul used the torque wrench to function as a mandrel or kink reducer and bent up the line, he put it on and called it quits for the day. I tightened up the fittings (caliper bleed is 10mm.) , gravity bled the offending wheel cylinder, and noted I had no pedal at all, having returned Paul's cylinder to him, and remounted the original, on the dubious theory that only one thing goes wrong at a time. Even with the broken line, I had some pedal with Paul's cylinder. Monday, we got up and had zero pedal. Ordered a rebuilt P30 master cylinder. Postulate is now that the master cylinder was OK, but when the brake line let go, the master cylinder plunger traveled down the bore and the O-rings were ruined by the corrosion and rust in the bottom of the bore. The new cylinder came in that afternoon, and it was a quick task for Paul and Tom Phipps, who helped that day, to bleed it and put it on. We had immediate pedal, bled the one caliper with new tube and had pretty good brakes. Had to get back today, and made it back. It was uneventful, and a joy to drive. Upon my return, the house water line was leaking. But a plumber repaired it for $80. Luck is turning.
The highlight was not any of these problems but the kindness my wife and I encountered without fail. We had a blast. If any of you lurking has any reservations about attending a rally, please give it a chance. It was really fun, and we got to meet the stars. I tried to get Ken Henderson's autograph, but it was too pricey for me! Just kidding, Ken. Ken in particular, was very free with advice and hard earned knowledge and was the epitome of what a GMC'er should be. Emery Stora also was a store of knowledge and had a sympathetic ear. I can't say enough thanks for Paul and Nancy Doane, who had their dash in ruins, but found time enough to help us. This was a special trip. The return trip was uneventful, thankfully, and with a new appreciation for brakes. I just applied them periodically for reassurance. Since they failed between applications at freeway speeds, I guess luck played a large part. It took some time for me to even consider downshifting, and a minute more to think to tighten up the emergency brake in hopes to scrub off speed, when applying. In the event it proved enough to downshift through the gears and then pop it into neutral and what remained of the brakes at the front gently brought us to a stop. I am wondering if the front brakes have been making much of a contribution in recent times. I don't have enough experience to determine if the brakes are good enough. And, I don't want all the dishes to arrive at the front of the coach, along with everything else not tied down, so I have not really asked much of the brakes at any time. That will change. I plan a better test. Note we need to bleed the rest of the brake circuit as well. I am going to replace the steel lines from the middle of the bogies with lines with rubber sections. I think the vibration and suspension movement concentrated the stress right at the fitting. I didn't hit anything, and the brake line wasn't deformed. We did straighten it out to match the length at the auto parts store.
I will do what I can to emulate Paul Doane and Tom Phipps. I can't do as well as they, but I can help or commiserate. This is a world class bunch of people. There were others willing to help and a couple who did help, Jim and Kay from next door and expertise was there but not needed in the event. What a great feeling it was to stomp on that pedal and have it stop long before the floor.
I write this with a grateful heart. It truly was a vacation, with drama, uncertainty, despair, and joy. Met Dan and Teri Gregg, and my thoughts and more are with Ken and Mary, Teri's parents, who are facing health challenges.
Respectfully submitted,
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
[Updated on: Tue, 25 March 2014 21:33] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Trip report [message #245120 is a reply to message #245106] |
Tue, 25 March 2014 23:06  |
corleyw
Messages: 130
Registered: June 2007
Location: Battle Ground, WA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Question: When the pedal hit the floor, was that lever on the left an Emergency Brake or a Parking Brake?
Corley
'76 Glenbrook
29 other vehicles
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| Re: Trip report [message #245201 is a reply to message #245120] |
Wed, 26 March 2014 14:17 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Thanks for the correction. It isn't really either an emergency brake or a parking brake in my application because it doesn't presently work either way, but I wasn't looking to park at the time, but I take your point. However, in my youth.....they were called emergency brakes.
You consider it to be called a parking brake?
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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| Re: Trip report [message #245209 is a reply to message #245206] |
Wed, 26 March 2014 15:15 |
mikethebike
Messages: 331
Registered: January 2014
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Stock rear drums? I can tell you from experience that if that is the case you didn't slow down much. Hell, it you want to kill the rear light to keep a cop from seeing you brake why not do what all my whiskey running relatives did and install a toggle switch for the brake lights.
Tell you how good the Honda manual brake is....pull it up, start the engine and drive away...up a 12 degree grade in front of my house and the only time you will know the brake is applied is when the alarm goes off.
The 1965, 1966, 1967 ,1970 and 1975 Mustangs I've owned were not noticeable better.
| WD0AFQ wrote on Wed, 26 March 2014 14:56 |
Carey,
I have pulled the emergency brake a lot of times on my 65 Mustang so as to not have the brake lights show. I am sure you know why.  Worked like a top.
Dan,
Newport, Ar. and rolling
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| Re: Trip report [message #245229 is a reply to message #245214] |
Wed, 26 March 2014 17:06 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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| A Hamilto wrote on Wed, 26 March 2014 15:29 |
| cbryan wrote on Tue, 25 March 2014 21:27 |
...The combination valve is "supposed" to travel to the other end of its travel when there's a leak in one circuit, and save the remaining good parts of the brake circuit. My experience was that everything went at once.
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I am going to armchair quarterback here.
The front part of the master cylinder where the gunk in the bottom of the bore messes up the seals is the part for the rear brakes.
If the combination valve was working (you will want to check that), then what you had left was the front brakes. If that capability could not hold against in-gear creep, you have something wrong with your front brakes.
You could try bleeding them. The procedure for doing that involves manipulating the combination valve, and that will tell you a little about how well it is working.
And movement of one or both calipers might be partially or fully obstructed (by rust or dirt or both). You will want to check both of them. And you will want to check the flexible lines to them.
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Thanks, Mark. I thought that, too. Just a little left, it was. Main point being, that our Motorhomes beg us almost never to use the brakes as a panic stop, because of all our stuff being dislodged from their places and rattling around. So, when needed,.....how do you know they are ready without a test. Maybe my front brakes were never being used much. I will test that out on a gravel parking lot, after unloading stuff that could arrive up front. If that's true, the brakes with the disc brakes on the front bogie are pretty good, as they have served until very lately. Passed inspection, too. They felt "normal". Soon to check that out.
I will let you know what the next chapter is.
Thanks for your response.
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip report [message #245240 is a reply to message #245209] |
Wed, 26 March 2014 18:19 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I'm not sure whre Mustang brakes equate to GMC brakes, but the handbrake on the '66 I bought new would happily lock up the rear wheels. Great for changing directions rapidly.
--johnny
________________________________
From: mike foster <mafoster1@bellsouth.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Trip report
Stock rear drums? I can tell you from experience that if that is the case you didn't slow down much. Hell, it you want to kill the rear light to keep a cop from seeing you brake why not do what all my whiskey running relatives did and install a toggle switch for the brake lights.
Tell you how good the Honda manual brake is....pull it up, start the engine and drive away...up a 12 degree grade in front of my house and the only time you will know the brake is applied is when the alarm goes off.
The 1965, 1966, 1967 ,1970 and 1975 Mustangs I've owned were not noticeable better.
WD0AFQ wrote on Wed, 26 March 2014 14:56
> Carey,
> I have pulled the emergency brake a lot of times on my 65 Mustang so as to not have the brake lights show. I am sure you know why. :d Worked like a top.
> Dan,
> Newport, Ar. and rolling
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip report [message #245313 is a reply to message #245240] |
Thu, 27 March 2014 08:21 |
bdub
Messages: 1578
Registered: February 2004
Location: Central Texas
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Haha. That reminds me how I used to routinely side slide into my usual
parking spot many moons ago on a gravel lot. It was my daily driver 68 vw
baha. That e-brake handily at my side just begged me to use it. :-)
bdub
On Mar 26, 2014 6:19 PM, "Johnny Bridges" wrote:
>
> I'm not sure whre Mustang brakes equate to GMC brakes, but the handbrake
on the '66 I bought new would happily lock up the rear wheels. Great for
changing directions rapidly.
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bdub
'76 Palm Beach/Central Texas
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